Hi,

I'm looking for a bit of advice please.
Has anyone any experience of applying to the KC for permission to show after such an operation? Do you know what ops are classed as conformation changing apart from the TPLO for cruciate repair? Is permission usually granted without much hassle?
Thanks
Jan

I acquired my bitch from her breeder who had hoped to show her, but she had to have surgery for entropian, and could not therefore be shown.
Cathy.

Basically you need to ask permission for ANYTHING which changes the dogs conformation - which is what is says. Amputated toes, bits of tails, tooth removal, removal of various lumps and bumps. You will not get permission if the op is to correct something which is thought to be hereditary - eg entropion. Permission usually seems to be granted for cruciate ligament repair.

Thanks for replying.
Leo's op was for a luxating patella caused by trauma, don't know how I stand with that, but I've faxed a letter to the KC, and should hear Yeah or Nay by the middle of May.
So fingers crossed.
Jan

The ones I've seen in the KC Gazette for luxating Patella have usually been denied permission to show? I don't know if the cause (trauma) may make a difference?

Kay

Oooooooh I did worry about that, because I know that a dog can be born with a luxating patella and obviously an operation to rectify this would mean deliberately changing their conformation. I'm hoping that as Leo's was caused by an accident (he has been successfully shown prior to this - 2nd at Crufts just a week before) that permission will be granted. I'll be on tenterhooks now. But at the end of the day the main thing is he recovers fully, I wouldn't be without him for the world.
Jan

Didn't mean to worry you Jan, but thought it best to tell you what I'd read. As you say, his recovery and health are more important, but it would be a shame if you couldn't show him again.

Kay

What about hernias? Our bitch was born with a hernia, her dam also had one, and were told it wouldn't cause a problem. Well, it did and she had to have an operation to repair it, would I have to notify the KC if I wanted to show? Also someone said that the steward tells the judge which dogs have had certain operations, does this also apply when they have been neutered? If so will this not affect a dogs chances of winning?
I'm confused with all this red tape!!!

If you wanted to show you would certainly have to apply to the KC for permission to show, but I think hernia repairs are one of the operations where it will not be granted.

There is some discussion as to whether hernias are hereditary or not. At the moment, temporary permission to show seems to be granted. Yes, you should notify the KC if you want to show. How would a steward know if a dog has had an operation? This doesn't happen in the UK as far as I know. Hopefully, a judge would notice something obvious (like castration!) it's up to the judge how they view the seriousness of a condition - like a docked tail in a normally undocked breed for instance.

You would need to tell the KC & they would not grant you permission to show or breed

I understood from the KC website that if you are granted permission(temporary or otherwise) then you have to show the letter to the steward before your class and they then notify the judge which dog has had the operation(s).  Why should it matter that a dog has had a hernia if they have been neutered anyway, so no chance of passing the hernia onto pups?There seems to be alot of confusing rules and regulations, isn't showing meant to be fun?!!!!

I once got permission to show a young bitch with a cropped ear!  Her dam caught it when she was ten weeks old - probably the only undocked, one ear cropped dog ever to be show in the UK?

I've no idea why but I know of someone who had the hernia done on he KC insurance & then was refused permission to show or breed. One of my cavaliers has ahernia bt it doesn't bother him so I will not be having him operated on

Recent KC Gazettes show "temporary permission to show dogs granted without prejudice to any future decision" for 2 dogs having ops to repair umbelical hernias.

<<isn't showing meant to be fun?>>

The short answer to that Emily Rose is no. Showing has changed out of all recognition in recent years but when it started it was as a shop window for the breeders. Many older people on here can remember when we had to declare whether the dog was for sale on the entry form.

Regards, John

Anwen-does that mean they were granted permission to show and will be always be allowed to show regardless of future decisions about showing dogs who have undergone hernia operations?
I'm quite dismayed at it all  as we too would not have bothered having the operation but the hernia split and went purple so we had no choice, are the KC trying to condone keeping a dog from exercising in case it splits and the dog cannot be shown? All of this is making me rethink whether I want to be involved in the KC and it rules, I don't mean to offfend any one who shows, whos dogs have hernias or anyone else but all I want to do is have a bit of fun and get a bit more involved with the showing aspect of dogs.
I'll step down off my soap box now, well for the meantime!!!

I agree with you. Application to show after surgery is a good idea in principle but I don't think it makes a lot of sense in practice.

When you register your dog you give your vet permission to report corrective surgery to the KC but I wonder how many vets do this? Some won't want to be bothered with the paperwork, some wouldn't report the time of day to the KC and some still have old fashioned views about professional confidentiality. So I'd guess that many vets do not report corrective surgery to the KC. Which leaves it up to the owner in many (maybe most?) cases.

And if it is an op that cannot be recognised on sight like castration and ear cropping my guess is that the owners who apply for and as often as not are refused permission to show are the same people who would not allow a dog with a hereditary fault to be bred from regardless of the KC and it's rulings - though they might still enjoy showing an otherwise good dog. Less scruplous people won't let on to anyone about the surgery and certainly won't tell the KC about it.

I've spoken to the KC Show section and I think you may be right Anwen. Apparently it all depends on which operation was done to repair the injury, the fact that it was an injury and not cosmetic doesn't seem to count. I find it hard to understand the reasoning for allowing the TPLO for cruciate repair yet potentially refusing the op to repair a patella injury.
Ah well we shall see...

Emily Rose whereabouts on the KC website did you find your info about operations? I tried to find info myself but was unsuccessful.
Regards
Jan

All the temp permission to show means it has not been accepted & will be put before a committee atfer which they will be refused, unless there are very exceptional circumstances

Things like having teeth out tumoors rmoved etc will be allowed immediately

Possible genetic things will be given temp permission then not granted usually. Like patella correction, entropia correction.

I can understand them refusing ops for correcting a fault. However Leo's luxating patella was a result of his fall, he had never had any previous problems with his knee. I know most luxating patellas are hereditary, but ocassionally they can be caused by trauma particularly in the large breeds.
Jan