I just wondered how all you secretaries/committee members pick your judges for your up and coming shows ?  I am on the committee for a local Canine Club and "look after" finding the judges for the gundog group.  I do try to vary who we get, what breeds they have etc. etc.  But gawd sometimes its really hard.  I try to find people who haven't judged in Scotland before or for a long time, we usually have 2 judges for gundogs and I try to find judges who don't have too far to travel as some will claim their expenses and it can cost us an awful lot of money :-(

Given how popular Champdogs is I wondered if they would be willing to have a page dedicated to judges who could put perhaps put their details on re what they can judge, experience, etc. I know there is already one website that offers this and a few judges have registered but not an awful lot.  Would anyone else find this useful or am I talking rubbish ?  :D

What does everyone else do when looking for judges ? :-)

We ask the breed clubs for their judging lists (not always easy) and we then start trying to find a breed judge off the B list, sometime you can't find a breed judge so we then try the all rounder on each breeds B list. It is not easy to get hold of the breed lists and sometime if like us you do 2 shows a year you start to run out of judges unless new ones are being added. One more thing we work 3 to 4 years ahead of ourselves and sometime judges retire or die on us, but thankfully not very often. Can't be any more help, sorry :)

When we have found judges the names go to the committee when someone will say "OH no! You can't use her/him they are dreadfull" so then you have to start again, welcome to the world of dog showing from the difficult side.

Just out of curiosity Jackie, why do you only pick names off the "B" list? My breed club has a "C" list for new breed specialists, to get off this list you have to have judged an awful lot of dogs and classes. My breed is band E which allows for even a "C" list judge to do five classes. I am eligible for the "B" list, yet am either too busy or too lazy to get around to applying for the "B" list much to my show secretaries disgust. So I do not appear on any lists anywhere. The only reason, I can think of, you might not have a "C" list judge is if your show is a premier show, where Best of Breed would qualify for Crufts?
I think having a list of people willing to judge here could be quite a good idea, but it would require folk to put down their experience and time in the breed/breeds, stewarding etc.. the same as they do for their breed club judging lists. They could also state whether they require expenses or not which might help people putting on shows who would appreciate having a judge from well outside their region.
It is annoying in some ways to always come across the same judges time and time again. I have a friend who has never been invited to judge gundogs anywhere north Banbury for instance and she was saying only a week ago when we were talking about this that she would like to judge a northern show. She is on the "B" list and is waiting to go up to the "A" list.
I have never asked for expenses, as I try to plan a short break around my judging appointments, for example, when I judged at Merseyside Gundog I stayed with my daughter and had a great break, I know other judges do this as well.

In most breeds C list judges can only judge 3 classes and as we classify up to 10 classes (most 5 or 7) per breed we have to use B list or above. We do have a couple of breeds who only have 3 classes and they are usually judged by one of the principal judges, of which we have 2 - that is judges who are hound group judges.

We have tried using C list judges by splitting the classes but we find that the exhibitors are not prepared to support their less experienced judges with their entries, and if we do not get entries we can't continue to classified the breed. With the cost of venues around the £1000 to £1500 these days without good entries you can't continue as a show society

This is a problem I have heard of before, I actually have taken it up with the KC, as when they first introduced the new judging qualifications, many people found themselves in a "catch 22" situation. In some breeds this will still be the case it seems. You can't get on a judging list because you haven't got the experience, and can't get judging appointments because you are not on the lists!

As I said Band E breeds even "C"list judges can judge five classes. If every show only chooses from the breed club's "B" lists then we will in time have a situation where there are no new judges. Judges need to start somewhere, and gain experience. I have found that where a "C" list judge is put on for classes, that people tend to look at how long the judge has been involved in a breed, before they enter. This is sound practice, as I would not enter under a judge who had only had an involvement in my breed for less than five years. This is why I say "C" list judges and for that matter "B" list judges should state their time and involvement in the breed they are wishing to judge.

All rounders have a place in judging as they will choose a basically sound dog, not being too worried about the finer points. Specialists will be more critical of the finer points of the breed being judged and may ignore a sound dog in favour of one which is in their eye more typical. This mix of judging styles are what keeps breeds sound and looking like the breed they are supposed to be.
Polly & Foxpath Flatcoated Retrievers.

Think the breed clubs can help with the bottle neck, they can run training seminars for their breed, and I mean proper intense training, not just half a day, and then if they are happy with a candidate they can be placed on the B list and their progress monitored. In hounds most breeds are B list judges from 4 classes and those who can judge 5 classes from the C list have more classes because they are the more popular breeds and can therefore support a higher number of classes. We have tried to encourage novice judges belief me but we are at the hands of the breed clubs and they soon complain if they think you have appointed someone who is not up to the job. On the other hand you have to avoid the sort of people who put forward someone because they are a friend or owe them a favour - and those why complain about the appointed judge because they have an axe to grind. Mind you, one does developed a second sense about the less than honest recommendation.

Thank you for your replies :-)  V interesting.

So, does no one else think (other than Polly and I) it would be a good idea to have a judges section ?  I think it would help those who don't like to promote themselves as well as helping me find some blumming judges :D  Seriously though, I do have a friend who needs judging appointments South of the border but she doesn't like contacting secretaries directly to get herself known, she is on her breed clubs list but that is it.  It wouldn't take much for folk to add their details to a specific section, I would imagine most have done this at one time or another anyway so could perhaps cut and paste ? 

Polly I will PM you :-)

Trouble is Clare, the judges need to be on the breed lists if you are having more than the minimal number of classes. It is always a balancing act to get judges that will keep the exhibitors, the breed clubs and the KC happy. Is it a general open show you are looking for judges for, and what year are you working on? It seems to be the habit around here for the smaller shows to have a group judge who will take on most of the breeds in that group, the show secretary keeping the class numbers down to suit, the trouble with this is that the exhibitors start to stay away and then your average class numbers start to drop - to counter that you drop some breeds and in the end the show is not sustainable. If you have just taken this job over did not the previous officer leave you the paperwork required to help you find judges. If you let us know when the show is and what breeds you are having trouble with may be we can make suggestions even if they have to be on the PM system.

I agree it could be tricky pleasing everyone, breed clubs KC etc.. which is why I said in my earlier post if it was to happen then, any potential judge should not only state their time involved in a breed, stewarding experience and seminars attended, but whether or not they are on any judging lists. Also they might put on whether they would expect expenses or not.
Having been on an open show committee, I know that it can be difficult for committees especially if the breed clubs do not do their bit and send lists of judges when requested.

We do ask judges what breed lists they are on, it is always usefull to know what breeds a judge can handle.

I agree, it would be a good idea!!!!!

Kay

Claire,

If you're stuck I can come up with some good names!   ;)

Christine

Are you going to Bathgate on Sunday?