Hi all

Am thinking of going into business with a sort of doggy creche.

Where instead of just walking a dog for half an hour I would have it at my house for the majority of he day while you were at work

Does anyone have any thoughts about whether this would be a good idea or not.

Dogs would have to be assessed to make sure they were friendly enough and confident enough to cope with the mayhem that is bound to ensue.

I was hoping owners who already spend the money would prefer the dog to have company all day rather than just for half an hour

I was thinking about £10 a day

Thoughts anyone

I suppose people would be interested to know what dog care qualifications you have got?  And the number of dogs you would be caring for at a time?  But the idea sounds a great one to me.  And £10 sounds very reasonable too!

I think yes if you are confident about it fine. One thing I would rethink is the charge of ten pound seems poltry compared to five for a walk So dont undercharge is what I would say. I either work in the morning or afternoon and pay a fiver for someone to come in. for a wee while no walking needed so compare what you are offering for ten pound
Good luck

Jean

Well I was trying to keep the charge reasonable as I wanted people to be able to afford it. If you're talking every day thats £200 a month which is a lot for people who just want to do the best by their dog.

I didnt think about care qualifications to be honest. Do professional dog walkers have any that you know of.

I guess my onyl guarantee would be that I'd treat them as well as I treat my own.

Would consider having up to 8 a day as I have a 150ft enclosed garden for when I chuck them all out of the house!!
House also backs out onto open fields so walking would be easy as well.

Would only walk them in pairs though.

I'm not sure if they do to be honest.  I just thought that to make you the best and most popular of this kind of business, that they would be a good idea.  And may be something people will look for.  Some people get really worried about leaving their dogs (me included) and would be really confident leaving their dogs with you if they knew you had some sort of qualification.  Don't know if that's just me being silly or not.  Probably is :)
And unfortunately don't know if they're easy to get.
Sorry, I'm pretty useless! :)

You need to think of:

Insurance
Public Liability
Neighbours
The council - environmental health
VAT and Income Tax - as it would be run as a business
Health & safety
Fencing - escapees
Disposal of dog waste (there will be a lot)

Don't want to dampen it, but if you are providing a service and charging then you have to ensure you are covered from all directions :)

okay clever clogs.

Neighbours wont be a problem for the forseeable future as they are all at work during the day, if anyone put theres up for sale I'd just have to make sure I had 10 dogs in the garden to put anyone non workers off of buying it.

Doggy doo can just go in our compst bin that the council come and get.

Fencing is secure and brand new, would only be a problem if we had any climbers as is 6ft high all the way round.

Council, public liability and environmental health have no idea.

Is something to look into though
Thanks (sort of :D)

Rach

:D :D

OK...I would write to the neighbours advising them of your plans - a nice note with a bottle of wine (bribe) and reassuring them it won't affect them. Don't forget if there is a lot of barking it could affect further afield neighbours ;)

Council - ditto above. You need to speak to them as its a change of use for your house

You will need Business Insurance and Puiblic Liability Insurance, before considering dog insurance

You would need to set up a Ltd Co to protect yourself from tax up to a certain amount, you wouldn't need to worry about VAT I don't think...but you couldn't do it without informing the tax man (see neighbour issue above - first thing they'd do if they got annoyed is shop you to the tax man :D )

That should do it for starters. You can't afford to take short cuts these days - folk are too quick to point the finger, blame and sue ;)

cheers your a star.

Problem before ALL that though is persuading boyf that its a good idea :D

At the moment he's very anti my plan but am slowly bringing him round.

Am printing this out though for future reference.

Sounds like a good idea to me,have you checked out insurance though?I know it can be a stumbling block with any small venture and you do leave yourself wide open to people suing if anything should happen to their dog.

yeah I never thought of that.

oh dear I knew I came on here to ask the question for a reason!!!

hmm.

Could I not only accept dogs who have their own insurance and then get the owners to sign a waiver.

Or would that put them all off, make them think I'm not going to take proper care of them

I just really wanted to keep the price as low as possible.

Why don't you check out how much it would cost to get insured? You could then rethink it into your price - you may find that its not that expensive and the cost may be low enough that it would be covered by the £10 charge per day anyway!!  Think it would look extra professional if you could say that you were already insured, looks like you mean business!!

Hi Rachel

You'd have one customer guaranteed... Emmy! It would be heaven for her to romp for a day or half a day with other dogs!

Then again, I've met you and Darcy,  and know how well you love your dog so I know you'd care for mine just as well.
(Although having met my nuty Emmy, you might not want her!!!)

I think this kind of thing is popular in America, they call it doggie day care. May be you could try researching it a bit on the Internet, see what comes up.

Because I work from home I wouldn't need (or want!) to put Emmy in day care every day, but once a week would be a great day out for her, or a life saver if I need to go to meetings etc... I have to rely on family and friends at the moment if I am going to be out all day so hurry up and set up in business!
I would be prepared to pay around £25 for peace of mind that Emmy is being looked after and having fun, although maybe you could offer a discount if you were to have a dog for the whole week?

Good luck and don't be put off by red tape!

oh well done. thats a good idea. I was already considering half days as well at £7.50 but doing that price for every dayers and more expensive for occassionals is a very good idea.

Or maybe for every dayers do the same price but on a buy 3 weeks get a 4th free or something similar.

Blimey theres so much to consider I dont know whether I'm coming or going!!!

You've done it now Joules, if I get this off and running I'll be holding this conv up and saying LOOK you promised to be my first customer and then coming round and kidnapping Emmy.

Cant you imagine how much they'd all love it though!!!

I'm serious! If and when you set up, you will have a customer... At least once a week, I think it's an excellent idea.

And being a Graphic designer, if you want any help with flyers, posters etc... just let me know (I won't charge!)
I also have a friend who is a web site designer, she could set something up for you and being a mate she wouldn't charge much (if any thing)

Keep us all informed how you get on!

wow you're a star.

Will let you know if manage to get anything up and running.

You would probably need some sort of license with you local council too.

I think its a great idea though, as for qulifications you can sometimes do weekend courses at agricultural colleges in all sorts of things like doggy first aid, training etc.

I used to do dog walking im trying to give it up but I find it really hard to say no :rolleyes:  I have an FD and ND in animal care/science, also loads of experience with dogs.  All of my walking jobs came by word of mouth, people recommending me to their doggy friends ;)

good luck :)

If you don't have qualifications then what about a reference off the vet? Somebody could have an armfull of qualifications but it doesn't mean they are good with dogs. Insurance is a must and maybe build a small kennel block! Because you're not going to be able to walk 8 dogs at a time and you couldn't leave them unattended while you were gone.
I think it's a great idea, go for it!

yeah a liitle kennel block sounds like a good idea, my original plan was to leave the others in the house while I was out walking but I guess they could decide to rip my house to bits.

This is something that I have thought about as well but my concers are that people will buy a puppy and then leave them for 7 hours a day whilst they go out to work.  I know they will be in good hands at a Doggie Creche but do you think this is a good thing to encourage or not ?? 

I also know that some of us have to work 7 hour days but would you do some kind of test or questionnarie for the owners.  My Boys are walked before I go to work for 30 minutes.  I leave home at 8am my brother pops in around 1pm and I'm back home at 4:30pm and then we go out for another 1 or 1 1/2 walk.  This isn't something that I planned just a change in personal circumstances but I do make sure they are walked before I go off and when I get back.

JMT

Dessie

hmm I think people will buy a puppy if they want one regardless if theres a creche or not to take it while they're at work, at least this way the puppy has somewhere to go whereas otherwise the poor thing would be at home all day by itself.

I'm sure it would be alot easier to set up than it looks, could you not get in contact with a kennels for some advice? Hopefully someone who owns kennels could advise.
Or maybe if you just start off small with an ad in a shop wndow say just one or two for now and see how you cope before you launch yourself full on into it.

ideally thats how I'd like to start and then buold up from word of mouth but unfortunately the financial situation to allow that is a few years down the line.
So will either have to wait for that or really bite the bullet and hope I get enough custom to make it viable.

But don't you think this would encourage irresponsible ownership.  I know Breeders will not let puppies go to people that work 7 hours a day - do you think they'd be happy with a Puppy in a Doggie Creche.

I think it is a great idea but just worried about the people out there that just get them because it might be the latest fashion or something.

JMT

i think the very fact that they're irresponsible people means they'll go and get one regardless.

The number of dogs in rescue is testament to the fact that people are already very willing to go out and get pups and leave them at home all day
I dont think my opening a doggy creche would have any effect on that

THanks for your opinion though was thought provoking

am also having a bit of a guilt trip about it as a very good friend of mine is a dog walker in my area and am afraid I might steal her business!!!

I would think very carefully about taking in uneutured dogs and bitches for obvious reasons.

Hi,
I run a dog creche, looking after dogs during the day and a bit of holiday boarding as well. You need a licence and public liability insurance. I'm trying to get insurance for the dogs in case they get ill, like the boarding kennels have, but haven't found anything yet. I am allowed to take 5 dogs plus mine but only so may of each size. I charge £10 per day. Anything else you need to know?
DaisyM

Forgot to say - you can't leave them unattended. My licence states that someone must be with them all the time.
DaisyM

If you can't leave them unattended it means that you would not be able to walk them, or, if a fight or accident ensued take them to the vet?

It sounds as though you would need a minimum of two people involved here.
:)

think you could be right but theres no way I could pay two people a wage on that price.

THe dog sitter that I use does the same sort of thing but only weekends and for long stay holidays.

I trust her implicitly with darcy but I know she goes out and leaves numerous dogs on their own (only for short periods though)

does this mean she's unlikely to have a license or that she just ignores the dont leave them bit.

Could you do it (hope there are no tax men on this forum) as a doing it for friends type thing if you didnt advertise, or does the fact that you take money for it make you a business??

Any money you make has to be declared to the taxman :) You may not have to pay any tax but you still have to declare your earnings :)

You could be self employed but you have to be working for more than one person / business to do that. You maybe able to get away with it as you will be billing several people and taking the gross amount so therefore at the end of the tax year declare the full gross earnings you have made less expenses allowable to offset against this to see what you tax payable/ tax refundable will be. You will need to see an Accountant really to decide what is the best way to do it. I suppose it is all dependant on what sort of earnings you think you will be making in a year !

The best thing to do is ring the Inland Revenue helpline and ask for some advice :) They are good at giving help ! It is always best to go by the book as if you get caught whether it was intentionally or just because you 'didn't realise' they will fine you!  :)

It is a good idea on the face of it but there is a lot to think about before entering into it !

Good Luck !

Lucy

the easiest way to avoid paying tax on smaller amounts is to set up a limited company. Lucy is right - an accountant is your best bet ;)

local authorities may alter in their licensing standards - also how many dogs may affect.  Whilst i think its a lovely idea and your heart'd definately in the right place i doubt whether your local council will ok this if you live in a built up area. If i were you i'd make an enquiry to your local council to see where you stand and what they'll allow b4 you get your hopes up. Noise of a barking dog - even if just playing in your garden will carry a long way and neighbours with children, working nights will not appreciate.  I personally would not use any kennels etc that let dogs out en masse to play! things can very easily get out of hand in a very short space of time. The lady i've used for single dog boarding was retired and only ever had one at a time.  I think there is definate need for dog creches, as others have already said they'll get the dog anyway and just leave it at home til it demolishes the place - then put it up for re-homing.  Dont forget its likely to be long hours e.g 7-7 as prob draw in commuters etc. lots of luck anyway.

The not leaving them unattended would be my worry too.  Even dogs who appear to get on, will sometimes fight over food, or have hormonal ups and downs.:(  You must have some facilities for keeping them seperate, and then that loses your idea of keeping them all in your house.
I think the idea is brilliant but in practice I wouldn't be happy to leave any of mine in that situation.  Having worked in boarding/quarantine/breeding kennels, I can say that looking after other peoples' dogs isn't like having more of your own!
I hope that from this seed of an idea you can make something work.

I'm afraid that you have said, Val, what I was thinking :( Sorry - Rachael - it is a nice idea, but I although my dog is good with other dogs, he does like to avoid some, such as yappy puppies :) and I wouldn't want to guarantee to someone that he would be fine :( I think that it's a bit like childcare, where you really need a higher human:dog ratio :)

Daisy

I walk them all together, off lead if their owners are happy and they are fine. If I have to take them to the vet which hasn't happened yet (touch wood!) then they all have to come too. My dog is frequently at the vet so they are used to me bringing in 1 or 2 other dogs. If I had to take 6 dogs then they would wait in the car - the car park is visible from reception.
PS I use nemerous baby gates in case I need to separate any of them and especially at food time

That's very interesting and well thought out!! :p

We found our dog walker through personal reccomendations and watching him with his other charges. Qualifications didnt mean much to us, how Morse responded to him was more important. Also the number of other dogs he takes out at once isnt excessive. I wouldnt want him taking Morse home although he does have a breakfast club for one dog. I think Morse enjoys a romp with his pals but appreciates the peace of his own bed when he gets home!

BTW I work part time and employ a dog walker because I am a responsible owner who recognises a dogs need for companionship. Irresponsible owners may work and not recognise the distress dogs experience when left alone with nothing to do.

I appreciate all of your comments and have taken them all on board. I guess I would say that every dog owner knows what their dog will and wont put up with. Darcy will quite happily play all day and would know doubt expect other "day boarders" to do the same. So I guess I'd just have to be upfront and honest with any potential customers and hope they'd be the same in terms of what their dog is like. I have the ability to separate the dogs for some "time out" if necessary but would expect them to be together for most of the day.
My dog sitter has up to 5 dogs together at any one time, she walks them all together and they spend all day together, theres the odd scuffle, a lot of play fighting and at the end of the day 5 exhausted but very happy dogs and thats more what I'm aiming for rather than a proper kennel type situation.
Not for everyone I suppose but then I dont really have room for everyones dogs!! :D

Am starting to look into now, much to my boyfriends disgust!!
I have my friends two dogs for the next fortnight while she's on holiday so we'll see how that goes as a good test

Thanks everyone

Rachael

I will add my bit....
I pay £40/week for dog walker to walk my two for half an hour a day.  Personally I would rather do this than use a 'doggy creche' as I would not trust ANYBODY to ensure that the other dogs were well behaved, not bothering my two etc..

I got my walker through an advert in the vets and she visited me with a book of references, these included references provided by the vets who used her and other people in the area, who i could have contacted.

I signed a contract with her and have now used her for over four years.  Very happy and get regular updates on the dogs!

Good luck.

P.S I am tax man and would not recommend going Limited Company route.

okay thankyou but I personally would put my dogs overall happiness above that and I think that they would be happier with company all day than they would with just a half an hour walk, I'm not criticising, my dog doesnt currently get more than that a day but setting this up would also be my way of giving her the company I think she wants.

Maybe I'm just a bit nieve becasue I have a labrador who gets on with anyone and anything. At the sitters theres a lot of play fighting and the occassional spat but nothing aggressive.

Do people in general find their dogs dont like doggie company as Darcy likes nothing better.

My dogs love other dogs company, being well socialised and happy dogs!  They also get lots of other dog interaction when they get their morning and evening walks, and have each other during the day.

My point being it's the other dogs you would be looking after that I would not trust.  Will the dogs be individually kenelled with monitored time out together during the day?  You cannot just let them have free for all all day?

My two dogs get on well together and out on walks with other dogs, but Bramble is a bit choosy who he is friendly with and will give some dogs a wide berth - particularly some over bouncy labs and yappy puppies :D In a confined space where he can't escape, he might feel threatened.

Daisy

My own dog is choosy as to who he will accept  in the house so I interview EVERYBODY with their dogs and if I or my dog aren't sure, I just dont take them. As to them annoying one another, most of them just want to sleep in between walks, some play but no dog is allowed to worry another - I just get a baby gate out short term and if the offending dog doesn't calm down and get on with the others, then he doesn't come again. Trial days are very useful.
Daisy M

I'm sorry but I disagree if I was happy that the dogs got on, obviously as Daisy says below you'd have to trial this to see, then I'd be more than happy to have them together all day, obviously with my supervision.

My whole reason for doing this would be so the dogs have the socialisation during the day, if they were individually kennelled they might as well just be at home with a dog walker to exercise them. I would not want a kennel situation at all. I am not a big fan of them and wouldnt put mine in kennels so I wouldnt expect anyone to bring their dog to me and for me to do something to theres that I wouldnt do to my own.

Daisy
I like the idea of the stair gates for time outs.
Cheers

Hi Rachael

A question for you that may or may not be relevant.

Have you ever seen dogs fight, really fight, and had to try to separate them?    I don't mean a play fight or a short spat but a prolonged, trying to tear each other apart, fight. 

If this did happen how would you cope?

I guess I'd try and do the same as I'd do if my dog started fighting in the park or in the field where she constantly meets strange dogs and they're both off lead. I've already said that I would test the dogs together first and trust the owners to know how friendly their dog is around other dogs.

Like I've already said my friend already does doggy boarding and has up to 5 at a time in her house, she has the occasional spat but nothing serious. I'd hope for the same. If a serious fight did start I'd do my best to separate them, and yes I am aware I could get bitten but I'd still want to stop them, then I'd permanently separate them for the rest of the day and tell the owner of the dog that unfortunately I wouldnt be able to take her dog again and that they needed to do more work on its socialisation.

I would leave a dog in doggie day care if i had too, i probably wouldnt want too everyday but a couple of days would be good.
I guess what i would look for is:
Relevant Licences and Public Liability Insurance (dog insurance would be a bonus but most people these days insure anyway)
Recommendations?
But mainly i would go on how your dog is, is he happy/unhappy/healthy? How he reacts around you and how any other dogs there seem and get on with each other.