Were not asking me what?

Lara wasn't asking you if it was YOUR kennels that refused to take German Shepherds.
Sorry Jackie, did you UNDERSTAND THAT?

I wouldn't like my dog striped!

Jackie,

If you can't see the connection then you aint looking properly.  If I can see it - it's there.  They only chose the dogs they can handle????  Think about it.  If you still can't see the connection then I can't help.

Wasn't my argument anyway :)

Now can anyone help Maureen with a groomer in Scarborough?  Which was the original question!  :D

Can't see the connection between someone choosing the dogs they wish to kennel and a groomer telling their clients that they are being cruel to their dogs to ask that they are stripped and not clipped. The first sounds sensible to me the latter a rude cop out.

Don't get me wrong if a 'groomer' chooses only to clip and bath that is their choice but it does not give them a right to tell others how to groom their dogs.

I agree Jackie.  But I didn't read the post that said the groomer told clients they were cruel.  Just that she chose not to strip.  Maybe I aint looking ;)

The first reply to this guest by Husky
<<Why do you need him stripped? I worked as a groomer for seven years and always refused to strip. When people asked I used to say to them 'do you go to the hairdressers and say "no don't bother cutting it, just pull it out!"' I've seen some terrible damage inflicted on dogs by stripping and it can affect them psychologically.>>

Jackie,

My apologies.  That post was soooo long ago I have had two birthdays since then!!  :D  Your point is taken.  Husky is passionate in her views and some may find that insulting.  The other side of the argument is also passionate about their views and some will find that insulting.  However, we all have our opinions and this is the place to put your opinion.  Not to argue about who's is right.  Both sides think they are so there are no winners.  You have your opinion which I respect.  I have mine.  I don't strip Norman because he doesn't like it.  If I wanted to inflict pain on him there are quicker ways to do it than stripping!  I've read the posts that say it doesn't hurt and I know some dogs enjoy it (by the same groomer I've used).  Norman doesn't.  I know my dog and I know when he's in pain.  Maybe he's just sensitive.  My dog, my choice.  Your dog, your choice.  Now, I must bid you farewell.  My tatty, ugly, miserable, embarrassed clipped dog needs a walk. :)

<<I've seen some terrible damage inflicted on dogs by stripping and it can affect them psychologically>>

Joe, don't you think this quote from Husky's original reply (which is the one that started all this debate) is implying cruelty?

Snap JG

Jeangenie,

See above.  Is it my fault that I missed it?????  Sooooo long ago and soooooo much has happened since.  I am having my photographic memory in for a service next week so hopefully things will improve after that ;)

But no body said it was cruel Jackie.....unless I have missed it somewhere.

'I'm pleased Husky is no longer dog grooming, sounds like a clipper happy person, who cares nothing about the CORRECT texture of a dogs coat.'
Sounds like you're calling her unfit to me!

Hi
Is it possible to get the double coat back on a Westie? We have an 8yr old that has always been clipped, she has a nice coat but it is not double coated. We recently got a 5yr old who has a lovely thick harsh outer coat. The breeder I got him from said to take him back to her for stripping and not to take him anywhere that only clips as this would ruin his coat. Would we be better taking the other Westie to her too to try and get the double coat back?
Thanks
Wendy

Wendy,

A quick answer would be Yes you can but I would say a good hand stripper would be the best person to look at the coat and decide.

If the breeder will do the dog for you then let her. She will know right away how easy it will be to " restore" the coat.

I have a pet westie that I have been doing for a year , I do it for practise more than anything. (The more you do it the better you get)

She was a clippered mess , with the strangest of shape. What a difference in her now.  A lovely girl has emerged in my opinion.

It can be a bit more expensive  but hey owning a dog is not the cheapest thing in the world.

Maybe she would teach you. :-))

Good luck.

Pam

Hi Pam
Thanks for your reply. The breeder where I got my 5yr old from shows Westies and always hand strips. She insists that clipping ruins the look of them and cringes when you mention clipping. I have to say, looking at both of my Westies I prefer to see them with the coarse coat. Ellie my 8yr old who has always been clipped (no-one around here strips) gets very knotted as here coat is softer. So yes, I will ask the breeder when I take Gyllie for her opinion.
Thanks
Wendy

Wendy,

She will certainly be the person to help you as she will be doing it regularly if showing.

Good luck

Pam

Thank you very much Snoopy for sticking up for me and for clipping your dogs which I expect they appreciate.I expected a response, but not such a venomous one. Please can some of you tell me what your profession is so that I can question your ability and qualifications to do it. I was a qualified groomer for seven years, quite a few years ago now, moved to another part of the country and had to sell shop. I had many, many satisfied customers, some of which travelled for three hours every 8 weeks to have their dogs groomed by me. I can strip, but choose not to. I NEVER took money from people on the pretence that I was going to strip their dog and then clip it as has been implied! I gave people the choice, which, if you read my original post, I also gave to the guest, suggesting she learns to do it herself or get the breeder to do it. In my OPINION it is much less stressful for a dog to be clipped, and it is unneccesary to strip unless the dog is to be shown, as clipping can alter the texture. I think most people with pet dogs just want their dogs to be comfortable and happy and aren't too concerned with appearances.

"I think most people with pet dogs just want their dogs to be comfortable and happy and aren't too concerned with appearances. "

Thats why my daughter has people travelling from up to 70 miles to have their Schnauzers, Norfolks, Norwichs, Borders etc. (all pet dogs) stripped by her so that they look like the breed that they originally bought is it

I for one as a breeder would be very upset if any of my puppies went to homes where there coats were clipped.  It can completely ruin the waterproofing texture of the coat and in turn  restrict the natural drying ability of the coat.

My buyers are instructed from the first time that they come to see me that the puppies are to be stripped and given ideas of where to find an experienced handstripper in their area.

I must say that my biggest priority when i take my dogs in to be groomed is their comfort,no matter what the style as long as they are comfortable and happy then i dont really care.

Christine

Certainly they must be comfortable, but not at the expense of their health. I will never understand why some people have their dogs clipped only to put a coat on it because it can't keep itself warm, or the rain soaks into it because the outer waterproofing coat has been cut off. :rolleyes:

If i was to pay for a pedigree dog, i would NOT expect restrictions to be placed on it. So therefore i would NEVER buy off a breeder who told me what to do. I have a good knowledge of my dogs, and know as much as any breeder on them. The only thing i would not argue about is breeding itself, as i don't do it, nor have i got any interest in it.
My dogs are perfectly healthy, and never wear coats.
I'm sorry but clipping does not affect their health. If it did i think i might have noticed after so many years.

thats Ok then Snoopy cos I wouldn't sell you one of my dogs.

Any breed of dog has been bred over a long time by dedicated breeders to get the breed to the standard it is.  A lot of thought was put into the wording of the standard of the breed by some very dedicated people.  and I for one am very proud of the origins and purpose that my breed were bred for, therefore I am very very careful to whom I sell my puppies and if a potential purchaser does not agree with my thoughts on the breed then they won't get one from me.

In my breed, the Border Terrier, the Breed Standard states Coat hard and dense, with close undercoat. That provides a waterproof covering for them to be out and about in all weathers without catching chills.

That is what I breed for and I don't put time and effort into choosing the right dogs to mate together, for some pet purchaser to come and along and clip that natural coat away.

What you do with your dogs is your business, but I feel very sorry for them if they have no coats and you have clipped off their waterproofing.  Bit like you going out in the snow or rain in your underclothers wouldn't you think. All I can say is thats why my puppy buyers go through a rigorous interview before I would even think of letting them have a pu[ppy.

The same as I put all the restrictions possible on my puppies registration papers to protect the breed from harm.

Edited to say: My daughter has very recently taken well over a year getting a mini wire back into correct coat.  He has now become a happy chappy again, who can run about in all weathers, instead of the fluffy ball of misery who shook if taken out in cold weather.

Lady Dazzle, your welcome to come and see my fluffy ball of misery if you like. But i assure you, you WON'T see him miserable. He's well loved and well fed and VERY happy, which is ALL any PET dog should be.
I too am proud of MY breed, i have kept them for numerous years now, and they will always be THE breed for me. But, my dogs ARE pets, NOT show dogs, so it DOES NOT matter that their coat is not stripped. I have even spoken to small time breeders who have clipped before, for reasons i'm not going into.
Like i say i can strip myself, but i choose not to. Nor do i condemn people who do strip. I just think it's a personal choice.

>In my OPINION it is much less stressful for a dog to be clipped, and it is unneccesary to strip unless the dog is to be shown, as clipping >can alter the texture. I think most people with pet dogs just want their dogs to be comfortable and happy and aren't too concerned with >appearances.

In my OPINION, there isn't a difference, IF it's done correctly.  I hand strip my gwp as he's sat next to me.  More often than not, he falls asleep whilst I am doing it.  How can that be stressful for him?

I just can't understand how you can say it's stressful for them...unless it is done incorrectly.

Helen

Helen, that won't be stressful for him. But a lot of people can't strip, so they have to take their dog to a groomer. I've had a couple of nervous mini wires who just would not be comfortable with a stranger doing that to them.
I can understand what you're saying about a dog that goes into dense undergrowth, i'm presuming here that you're talking about hunting.
But my dogs are pets, they don't go into dense undergrowth. So why should it matter to them?

<<But my dogs are pets, they don't go into dense undergrowth.>>

I don't want to start a row, but even pet dogs usually get to go sniffing around under hedgerows and through brambles. Unless of course they are town dogs who don't get to go off the lead?

...and out in the rain I would have thought.

Oh for heaven's sake! :rolleyes:  Does every hair whether it's clipped or stripped have to be split first?
A clipped dog isn't down to the bare skin - it's got enough protection to protect it sniffing under a bush in the rain.
Lara x

You haven't seen the clipped cocker spaniels around here then Lara. They are clipped virtually to the skin - hair no longer than 5mm all over. They look appalling. And this is done by professional 'groomers'. I've even seen a clipped corgi! :rolleyes:

:)

And why do you think they are clipped like that.......probably because they are so matted it is the only option.  I have had cockers come to me with their ears so matted that the only thing to do has been to clip them right off.......and it comes off like a sheeps fleece!!!!

You're probably right, Molly! The poor things must be owned by people who think they don't have to groom their dogs in between visits to the groomers. :rolleyes: If they were properly combed every day or two they wouldn't need to be clipped off in the first place. You'd think the groomers could politely suggest it.

That's what I do JG - not always politely.  My standard letter, handed to every owner on their first visit says "I am prepared to get any dog out of a mess ONCE.  We can all lapse under pressure, but any dog with a regularly knotted coat will be asked to attend more frequently or find another groomer!!"  I was taught that if I allowed owners to neglect their dogs and come once a year, then they will do exactly that.  I just say "That's not MY sort of work"  There are plenty of people who are happy to continually clip off matted dogs.  I just don't think it's fair on the dogs.  And I was told many years ago by an RSPCA officer, that the RSPCA consider it cruelty to neglect a dog's coat!!
But a course coated dog with a neglected coat still doesn't have to be shaved on its back!!  Under its arms maybe?
A badly bred dog with a soft, neglected coat may well have to be clipped.  But it is wrong to give the impression that it hurts to handstrip.  And it takes no longer for a skilled groomer to strip and clean a coat than it does to clip and bath and dry!!

A clipped dog isn't down to the bare skin - it's got enough protection to protect it sniffing under a bush in the rain.
Lara that's EXACTLY what ignorant groomers do!!  If I have a badly bred dog with a soft coat that won't strip, then I use thinning scissors to give a natural effect and leave some length for protection.

I take it thats a dig at me Jackie?
:)
My dogs go out in all weathers and yes they go into woods, but not into dense undergrowth. When they are off lead they stick with me and i don't tend to walk where it would make it difficult for them.
You obviously haven't READ my posts properly, as time AND time again, i have stated that they are healthy happy dogs, whose COATS GET clipped.
Your just being bitchy now, SORRY, but there's no other word for it.

Edited to say, JG thats not aimed at you by the way. It gets my goat when SOME people presume that your not a good dog owner just because you don't do what they THINK is right.

>Helen, that won't be stressful for him. But a lot of people can't strip, so they have to take their dog to a groomer. I've had a couple of >nervous mini wires who just would not be comfortable with a stranger doing that to them.

I can understand that but I still think that Husky should maybe have enquired as to whether the OP thought it may be stressful.  It seems that she feels that stripping is cruel full stop.

>I can understand what you're saying about a dog that goes into dense undergrowth, i'm presuming here that you're talking about hunting.
>But my dogs are pets, they don't go into dense undergrowth. So why should it matter to them?

I am talking about hunting but there is the weather as well.  I have 6 working gundogs (at varying ages so one retired, two trianing etc).  Even if we are going for a "walk" they are hunting.  They don't realise that they aren't "working".  Watch those springers in your local park, how many are dashing around, hunting in the bushes?

I just feel that a wirehaired breed should have a wire coat.  That's why I have a wirehaired breed.

Helen

My 18 month old border terrier has been stripped and absolutely loves it !. He pulls like mad to get to the lady who does it and loves the fuss she makes of him so I know it doesn't hurt. I booked him in a couple of weeks ago as I felt he was ready. When I collected him, the lady advised that she had only done the bits that were really ready as she felt that he needed to be left a few more weeks (basically she said that he had 3 coats on the go !) and that it would be uncomfortable for him if she had done it that day. I have every confidence in her.

Val and the slightly scruffy (at the moment !) Archie !.

Am sorry Helen but I have to put in my two penneth worth here.  I strip and clip other peoples dogs.  It is more stressful for the dog being handstripped than the one being clipped as it takes that much longer.  The dogs dont know me and no matter how much reassurance they are given they do get stressed.  Dogs that are clipped do not spend so much time on the table so get less stressed.  I did a Border today that had rescue before it came as she gets worried.  I "clipped" a Schnauzer puppy for the first time last night and she was completely relaxed.  The difference in time being 30 mins for the clipping and 1 and a half hours for the handstrip.  I have tried having owners stay with me while I work but that makes it even worse.  At the end of the day the dogs dont care what they look like so long as they are happy.

After reading the thread I had to put my two penneth in too.  Norman has a wire coat.  I learned to strip and tried that.  He looked good.  I bought clippers and tried them.  He looked good.  He goes into dense undergrowth, get's covered in mud from winter swimming in puddles and never has any tats.  I have clipped him now for the last four years.  I understand the argument about maintaning the coat if you're showing but saying that the protection of the coat is lessened by clipping is IMO ridiculous.

If Norman ever gets invited to the Bafta's then I may consider stripping (if he feels he needs to compete in the fashion stakes).  But he's not happy being stripped whether it's by me or a professional and I aint gonna put him through it when I don't need to.  He's happy, he's healthy, his coat looks and feels great (although it may not feel how the breed standard says it should) and he smiles a lot.

And my hairdresser DOES pull my hair but I think she just does it to me and it isn't part of her usual service :)

Well said Joe!!!. 

"And my hairdresser DOES pull my hair but I think she just does it to me and it isn't part of her usual service" ~ Joe you really should brush your hair in between visits to the hairdresser.  :-D  :-D 

:D

So is that baldy patch at the back Joe stripped or clipped :D
Lara x

Watch it dead deer eater.  And stick to the topic.  This post is not entitled - 'Joe's head'  :)

No, but we could chop it off to stop you having to go to the hairdresser Joe :D

I have an elderly Champion Mini Schnauzer who when she was being shown was handstripped and kept in tip top show trim.  She is now 12 years old and for the last 9 years of her life has been clipped.  This is done approx every 3 months with a tidy up every and again in between.  She looks good, she is very happy not having to go on the table every week like the showdogs and her coat is as good now as it was when she was being shown.

I think if I had a wirehaired breed and felt that it would get stressed at a groomer, I would learn to do it myself.  I don't show mine so don't need to worry about it looking just right.

This is a swings and roundabout debate as I think we are all confusing the issues here.  The OP wanted to know of a groomer that would handstrip her (can't even remember the breed).  If the OP felt that would stress the dog, I'm sure she wouldn't be sending him away to get done.  I personally feel that part of owning dogs is grooming them myself but that's another matter.  I can understand why people do but it's something that I don't feel happy doing.

Helen

I think i might change my dogs names to MISERY, UNCAREDFOR AND UNLOVED.
It's gonna be a mouthful to shout though when they're out in the dense undergrowth in the rain! :D

While you've all been arguing Harry has gone and got a skinhead.  He says he wishes he'd never asked :D