does anyone one on her do wtrials & obedience?
i think i want to teach my dogs a more of a working trials type of sendaway,as a basis of the exercise. anybody had any experince of if they would then have trouble at a ob show?
to my mind,if the dog is happy to keep going fast & straight & far,then at the end of they day youll end up with less problems than if you teach a "send to".
comments & thoughts please!!!!!

Hiya, I compete in Working Trials and am also intending to start obedience this year.  This is my third dog in trials and my second in "ticket" and so I thought I would try and compete in obedience too.  Suzanne Jaffa who won an obedience ticket with her aussie also does trials and Ann Bussey who has won WT ticket with her dog also does obedience; therefore there should not be any problem.

Not quite sure what you want to know but I will help if I can.  I actually think that all this "send away" and "send to" argument is pointless.  The end result is that you want the dog to go in the direction it is pointed and stop when commanded; end of story. :D

yep thats what i think to! but theres alot of people in obedience who teach to markers,so im not sure if to do this or teach a more working trials type way(this would be my preferance i think).
im not really sure what im asking! i suppose what im asking is: if youve got a really strong WT sendaway, are there any problems once you get into the ring at a ob show,as there are more distractions trhere than in a large field at a Wt.
im going to watch out for SJ & AB s SAs,as although ive watched them work i cant remeber their  SAs.
it never did Karina griffiths any harm did it!!!!???

Hi Michelle

I do obedience and if I am at home with all my "kit" I will send her away to a triangle or square of cones, flowerpots etc.  If I am out in the woods I might use her lead tied to a tree or a toy tied to a branch and drop her part way.  I still need a marker as straight lines are not our strong point - any ideas on teaching a straight sendaway to nothing anyone?

I never train to "nothing" I always use cones and I always use food :D

My dogs are trained to do a sendaway up to 500m and redirect the same distance.  I train them to go out straight; I never train the sendaway and "down" together though :D I expect my dog just to run until I say stop, personally I believe the "markers" in obedience to be irrelevant :)

As for distractions well a lot depends on where the control field is situated, if there is another stake working in the same field or next to it, and what breed you work :D

As to the markers being irrevelant - they are not if you have a dog who goes around them not through them :D

I ended up covering the whole area in upturned pots so that she could not go around them, had to go though at least some.  This took a while but she will now quite happily go though the middle of obstacles.

Hi michelle.

I do both obedience and wt as you know.  In WT, we use a single cone as a marker to set the dog up so he has something to aim for.  I usually place food by the cone or under it and command the down when he reaches the cone.  I then rush out to the marker myself and give more treats and praise the dog whilst he is in the correct position.

I use markers, but only to run through, not to send to.  Otherwise they will just look for markers, which could be a ring post or something in the next ring. 
I send to a ball on a rope, rarely do I use the down in training, just out to the ball and back to me quickly for a game of tuggy.  Food is fine, choose whatever turns your dog on.  With a ball I know I will get a quick return for a game at the end.

Sandra

Im working on this now and have got to sitting quietly betwen my feet till told Go then run to marker with food bag and stop. Im not going for distance as we need to go straight, and he always bounds to the right one pace before straightening up. Can I correct this without manhandling Morse?

If you are working on it indoors, try sending him with a wall to your right.  Bit difficult to explain in words, but the wall should stop him pulling to the right.
Hope this helps
Sandra

I don't manhandle my dogs in training sendaways or anything else.

What is your marker and where is your foodbag?

The marker at the moment is the metal pole with No Ball Games on top or the metal fence round the play area on footie fields near me, or a big tree in our wild walking place. I chose them as I could tie a bag with his food plus a smelly treat to it so when he arrives at the marker he stops to eat the food, when I see its gone I call him and finish with him sitting in front of me. Its always the last thing we do when out.

BTW I know you people would never manhandle your dogs, but for me there is a temptation to use the hands on approach. Im working on voice control only at classes which is fun - sit in a chair and keep your dog in front of you without touching him. When out I put hands in pockets if tempted :D

Will try the cones/wall/pace things, thanks very much for the suggestions.

Instead of sitting him and setting him up for a while you could try sending him from walking in a straight line for a change.
Set up your sendaway and then go back a little further.  Walk towards it with Morse to heel and then when you reach the spot you would normally set him up at just send him straight from a walk or you could even try it from a run for a bit of fun.  When you go back to setting him up he may just have forgotten that he jumped to the right when you sent him :)
Lara x

I never start out training sendaways that formally or indeed train them that formally with a sit at start and finish.  My dogs are generally sent out to food and come straight back for moreand/or I use a "touch" marker such as an alley oop so they race out to touch it and race back for the food.  I tend not to put food down unless it is in a huge sealed container as I don't want my dogs sniffing at the sendaway point and going all self employed. Neither do I want them looking in the hedge for it which is the drawback with toys and bags tied to trees, hedges etc.

I then train my dogs to "look" and click and treat; Use my hands either side of eyes sometimes or one hand but without touching dog but encouraging to focus.

HTH

Maverick has got straighter since I used lots of cones, upturned flower pots etc.  If you dot them around all over the place but leave a clear "tunnel" to the objective it does seem to help.

If he bounds to the right why not take one step with him as if he did it then he would bump into you - this might also help keep him straight?

The discussion about "send to" or "send away" is one that really confused me a while ago when i first started training for WTs! What i will say though is that, although i do really agree with Tohme in that it's all a bit pointless, as you just basically want your dog to run in a straight line and then stop, it did help me to think of teaching a "send away" . Can't explain why except that being new to WTs training, it just helped!

I taught Banya to run to a pole like Tohme, but (and here do please feel free to comment Tohme :D ) she lost momentum for running out after we reached say, 30 paces. So many said to me "she needs something to run to" and i decided they were right, and so started to use her Kong on a rope, sometimes as a reward (it owuld even be behind us on the ground whilst i set her up and sent her) but often (more often!)the Kong was  in a bush or on a pole stuck in the ground.....

I've got her to over 100 yards now this way so i'm pleased. I also use her ears as a "sight" (yaay for dogs with prickey up ears :D ) and only send her when she has sort of scanned and i say "yes!" so she hopefully locks on to where i want her to go.

We do have a problem to overcome (which i am sure is my fault somewhere) in that she does curve a bit as she reaches her goal and turns to see what i want next. That improves if i send her on several sendaways to the same spot and keep them fairly short. I'm hoping to visit Anne Busseyat some stage to get help with this, hopefully before we start competing in June. i must get more organised!

Lindsay
x

my dogs will run quite a distance in a straight line,through markers or not,untill they get too thier bally,which Sometimes they can see, but more & more now they cant see it but know that its going to be there if they run staight.sometimes i will drop them,but mainley work on the drop separtley so i dont slow them up.

tara will only do a quick sendaway the Mary Ray bunngee way!this is great fun! (im not too worried about tara as if she actually got into B id die of shock anyway!!!bless!)

Also try this link:

http://pub109.ezboard.com/bgundogandbirddogforums

Here's a method devised by Terry Hadley for training to send to "nothing" as it were.

It's assumed the dog has some confidence in going out to a marker and will run in a straight line until told to go down, has belief in the handler etc. :)

In the initial stages of training, you must find a field with a slight hill, the idea being that you will set the dog up facing the hill and the only view the dog has is the horizon.

Handler enters field carrying pole and toy, and walks round the perimeter of the field up the hill. The pole with toy is placed on the opposite side of the field from which handler intends to send the dog. Handler retraces her steps, and lines herself roughly opposite the pole on the other side of the rise. At this stage handler is unable to see the pole, but if she counts 50 paces or similar each way she will be in approx. the correct position.

Handler continues to walk up the slope until the pole comes into view, then back a few paces so that she can no longer see the pole and mark that spot with a pole,coat etc as this is the spot from where the dog is sent.

Collect the dog, and set up as normal and send. The dog will cover the first relatively short distance on trust and in the knowledge of previous training, and if necessary the owner should encourage him and follow him, stopping only when the pole is in sight. As soon as the dog spots the pole, he should cover the remaining distance with confidence. When he reaches the pole, praise, down, (remember to praise for the outrun as well as the down) walk to the dog and reward with toy.

Lindsay
X