Hello,
I wonder if anybody can give me an explanation and some ideas of how to stop this. My staff is 18 months she is very good with other dogs and very submissive with new dogs,rolls on her back and usually stays there or comes back to me. She has always socialised with other dogs and there is a small group of us that walk together. She gets on with all the dogs and plays with them really well except one. This dog is like a lucher in looks but small like whippet size. When kizzi was apup she was very bossy and could be snappy with her and kiz was abit scared of her. This dog has a problem with all other dogs except ones she knows and walks with. She goes crazy barking and snapping and has to be put on the lead if another dog appears in the distance. Lately when she starts performing at another dog Kizzi will go for her. At first if I shouted NO to her very sternly she would stop but a few days ago she really went for the dog and had to be pulled off. The other dog had puncture wounds in her neck. Today she was fine in the field but as we were leaving she just suddenly attacked the other dog for no apparent reason, she wasnt barking or anything. Anyway it was really hard to get her off and she had the dog by the throat. She was fine after we got her off and didnt try to have another go just walked with us as if nothing had happened. 

If this dog was snappy and bossy with Kizzi when she was younger and has problems with other dogs then that would explain why Kizzi decided to 'have words with her'.  You telling her 'NO' could mean that she either didn't finish saying what she wanted to say or she thought you were telling her off for not doing a very good job of trying to stop the lurcher 'going off on one'.  Now she is trying harder and as you discovered today she is 'talking to her' sooner before she even starts to create.  As Kizzi is very good with other dogs and well socialised she is probably ideally suited to teaching and helping other dogs or at least interupting the rude ones.

Sally

Hi Sally,
I understand what you are saying but this seems to be more than just words with her. We have to pull her off and she still dosent want to let go. Also she is causing quite a bit of damage to the other dog which is more than you would expect from just a squabble. It was easier when she was doing it when the dog started barking as you could predict what was going to happen. I dont want to stop walking with the owner as we have become friendly and I am going to be looking after her dogs when she goes into hospital. Not in my house though. She is an older lady and cant walk too far so I usually walk all four dogs round while she sits and has a rest, but if Kizzi is going to attack with out warning this is going to be a bit difficult. Does anyone have any tips how to deal with this and try to stop her doing it. The other thing is the owner of the other dogs brings treats with her and hands them out at certain places that the dogs have came to know. It was just after they had been given them yesterday that Kizzi attacked Shrimp, could it be that she thought that Shrimp was going to get more and she wasnt.  

Very often if two dogs don't see eye to eye then I don't believe you can influence that other than to possibly make it worse.  They have to be given the chance to air their differences without us interfering unless of course they are going to injure one another.  Because of the breed that she is and as you say she won't let go and she has done damage then you have a problem.  You say that Kizzi was frightened of Shrimp when she was a pup because she was bossy and snappy with her.  Also that Shrimp is not very good with other dogs and goes crazy and barking and has to go back on a lead when other dogs appear.  From that information I would say that it is Shrimp that has caused the problem, not Kizzi.  If Kizzi is fine with all other dogs then I think Shrimp may be a bad influence on her which leaves you with a predicament. :(

We see dogs here, like Shrimp fairly often.  Without our dogs we would not be able to help them.  Sure, I could teach the owners to get control on lead and leave other dogs but our priority is to help them to interact with other dogs as well as being responsive to their owners.  On occasion a stooge dog will tell a dog that it's behaviour is unnaceptable and/or rude.  All of this is done under strict control BUT the dogs are allowed to do it on their own.  We also have several dogs that have previously been anti social and in a couple of cases extremely aggressive with other dogs that all come here together for a good ol' chinwag.  Not all dogs are suited to this.  One of mine in particular is the sweetest, calmest, most stable dog here but he would not tolerate a dog like Shrimp and I believe he would bite, so he is never given the chance.

The presence of food treats may be a trigger as you have suggested. 
Shrimp getting vocal may cause Kizzi to become excited or aroused.

Even if they could walk around the park together without having an argument, unless Shrimp's behaviour is modified Kizzi is still likely to have a go when other dogs approach and Shrimp has to be leashed.

If you are walking Shrimp for her owner then Kizzi will miss out on meeting new dogs too.  Do you take Kizzi out without Shrimp about?

There is no magic answer to two dogs getting along, maybe someone else has a solution.  I have dogs (bitches actually ;) ) that don't mix and the late John Fisher rehomed a dog after two of his didn't get along.

So other than suggesting that Shrimp's owner gets help with her problem or avoiding the triggers not much help. - Sorry

Sally

Thanks for your very detailed reply, it was very helpful. I do walk Kizzi without Shrimp its just that when her owner meets us which is mainly at the weekends she likes me to take Shrimp and her other dog round the whole field as they dont get to walk that far with her as she has bad legs and cant walk very far. As to her trying to get help to sort Shrimp out I cant see it happening as she has no children and lives on her own. The dogs are like children to her and in her eyes do no wrong. She got them both from rescue, her other dog is a dalmation and is the biggest one I have ever seen. He unfortunatly has a problem with male dogs and has to be leashed when they are around. If I didnt meet her and talk to her she wouldnt have anyone to walk with as with her dogs probs it is hard to find anybody who can walk with her. Today I did see her because I wasnt working and went out later. I took some tripe sticks which Kizzi loves to try to make her recall 100% which it isnt very often. She did run straight over to Shrimp when we entered the field and had a little go but not as bad as yesterday. On the way home all was well until walking back along the river bank when I saw the mastif bitch approaching that Kizzi loves but Shrimp hates. Kizzi was in front of me and I heard Shrimp start to bark behind me. Kizzi turned tail and charged back to get her but I managed to rugby tackle her and ended up on the floor with an armful of dog and my jacket and trousers covered in dog mess that I had landed in but at least Shrimp was saved. I think I will still meet Anne and her dogs but will have to leash Kiz a bit more when Shrimp is around until her recall is more reliable. I will also walk at other times so she can still play with her friends and meet other dogs.
Thanks for all your help
Sue.     

It sounds as if Shrimp is her freind really - she just can't stand it when she acts stupid.  Your right, keep her on lead if you are worried but don't tell her off.  Avoid the triggers and the dog mess and I'm sure things'll be fine.  ;)
Sally

Definitely avoid the dog mess ;) :D

Lindsay
X

Hi Sally, thanks for that, your reply has made me feel better too, i've been having a really bad time with megs aggression over the last few days, she was a nightmare at training, and i think i am gonig to have to stop going because she is just so bad, yet up until this week she was doing really well, so i've been really upset and frustrated. But hearing how you have had some successes with dogs like meg has given me a shred of hope. However, i think your dogs will need to have some very strong words!! ;-)
Sorry to hi-jack your thread sue!