Hi, I heared on the radio yesterday that 60% of people think crufts is cruel! I mean i wish I had one of those dogs lives! And you could tell all the dogs in agility and flyball really had fun at crufts! Why would people think its cruel???..

Rebecca xx

You cannot successfully show a dog that does NOT enjoy the show ring so I cannot see how it is cruel ??
Since most are kept in tip top condition etc too?
Cruelty is a dog kept outside all the time and starved of human attention :(

I know my dogs would rather come out and about with me and join in with whatever I was doing, than stay alone in the house 9-5 every day.

that 60%do not have any pets ,never mind dogs mine are a sleep on my bed (there bed) im comeing back as a dog

I always find it funny that the polls they do never seem to ask the genuine dog people! As has been said there is no point showing a dog that does not enjoy it because they never will have that sparkle.

Jesse

I listened to a radio phone in on Talk Sport (I think!).  The presenter was VERY anti crufts and all the calls were as well.  I only caught the last half hour but they didn't have anyone who had a good word to say about crufts and breeders.  They even had the owner of Premier Puppies boasting about the number of pups he sells and he makes the new owners sign a contract to say they will not show their dog.  I doubt he registers them anyway!

Helen

There's a mention here re PP

my "friend" who doesnt own dogs, thinks crufts is very creul :( maybe she doesnt see the constant tail wagging! and barking in agility and flyball! Oh well, i think its wonderful, the dogs have such fun, and us too! :D

PETA & Uncaged also think dog shows etc cruel In the states they release the dogs from their show crates on a regular basis

PETA want pets banned full stop so anything that involves Humans 'using' animals is cruel in their eyes!

Jesse

I think the only thing cruel about Crufts is to us the paying public. It gets far too crowded, its virtually impossible to move on the last day, never mind get to the stands to actually buy things and as for people aimless wandering and getting in the way, well its unbelievable!! I had serious shopping to do.
There I've had my grouch. sorry!! LAL.
Think I'll try going on the Friday next year. Is it any quieter, anyone??

I dont think flyball or agility are cruel at all,but what i think is cruel is the people who show that dont let their dogs outside for a run and a romp incase they get dirty,in other words,dont let their dogs be dogs,i honestly dont think those dogs who are continuously being combed and brushed and bathed,poked and prodded by judges etc. and pent up in cages for most of their lives enjoy showing or for that matter, enjoy living??
I once heard a breeder/shower say "my dogs feet will never touch the outside ground" i was absolutely devasted for her poor dogs,they will never be allowed to run in an open field or swim in the river or play with other dogs just incase a hair is pulled out of place or do anything a normal healthy dog should be doing,those are the dogs i feel sorry for. When i was looking at breeders to buy a pup,i visited a shih-tzu breeder and when i went to pat one of her dogs the breeder just about flew out of her chair at me and told me NOT to pat that dog as she had a show the next day and she didnt want her hair to knot/mess up,how sad :(
Everything i have said pertains to LONGHAIRED dogs,do short haired get treated the same way??? Fair enough,let people show their dogs but are they keeping the dogs best interests at heart or is the only important thing winning ribbons and producing pups from champions etc. etc.

Christine

I know several successful breeders and exhibitors of long and short haired dogs all of whom are allowed to get as messy as they like and live like normal dog, digging holes, lying in putrid water, etc etc etc  They need the muscle and flexibility gained from free running as well as road walking to be well rounded and fit specimens of the breed :D

Also a number of dogs that are successfully shown do actually participate in other activities such as obedience, working trials, field trials and working tests for example where they are likely to get more than a touch of mud on them. :D

One that springs to mind is Ch Nicolaev Wesley with Doganodogs who is a multi CC winner in the show ring and is qualified CDex UDex WD Open!

Hm my cavaliers are bathed & combed & dried & taken to the shows in crates to keep them clean so I must be cruel too :O

Oh hang on wait a minute they are out in the garden doing the initial work on their latest escape tunnel into the real world this will be tunnel 26 as the guards keep finding them & filling them in :O

So maybe I'm not so cruel after all ;)

Anyone want a grey & ruby cavalier ?????

Hi think you may class Rough collies as long haired dogs and I will gladly let you clean my two up the next time they come in from there romp in the mud with the border collies :) Gillian

Don't know what you mean Gillian, my little darlings are always sparkling white :rolleyes: - no huge craters in garden or muddy walks for them at all ...... you've got to love blasters and grooming tables, haven't you, amazing how quick you can transform them from a muddy mess.

Have to say, whilst I obviously don't subscribe to the view that any shows are cruel, I do have to wonder about the people who wander around in the Crufts rugby scrum shopping with their dogs, poor things.

M.

Hiya,

Don't know about long haired dogs, but I have German Shepherds, and believe me....they are allowed to behave like dogs!! :)
For instance....they've been bathing in a huge pool of mud today (so sweet!)  Now my carpets are filthy, there's mud everywhere and the dogs are curled up in front of the fire fast asleep, paws 'a' twitchin'!

Oh well, as long as they're happy it doesn't matter.  Just means more work for us before the next show ;)

Lisa

Anyone who does not allow their dogs to behave as dogs (that's regardless as to breed) shouldn't be allowed dogs. The people, like you have mentioned, clearly do not have dogs because they want dogs but because of the glory they are hoping to achieve in the ring. I've beentold by sme poodle people if you let the poodles play to rough it ruins the coat, so I say rather a happy tatty poodle than a miserable one and it's not as if you can't 'tidy' them up in any event!!

Jesse

I went Friday this year -- it was rammed :rolleyes:

People who think dog shows are cruel are the ones who have never shown a dog in their lives and who have never been part of that world, they are the ones who see it from the outside and dont bother to look into the work breeders and show folk alike not only do on their actual dogs but on the health of their breed too.  Show dogs are usually pet dogs first and foremost and therefore do the same as other pet dogs, in fact they are probably cared for better than alot of pet dogs - how many show dogs would you find with big knots in their coats ?????? dogs enjoy shows, they are spending the day with their owner after all :)

If anyone was watching the Am cocker ring on Friday they might have seen one of our bunch, we had 7 there in a variety of classes from puppy through to open.  All in full show coat, all gleamingly clean and immaculately presented (I can say this without boasting as I was not involved in the coat preperation of any of this bunch apart from a few weeks care of the Parti girl).  However they get long, windy walks at home in Blackpool, run on the beach, play in fields, jump into ditches etc etc.  Just means they get a bath and blow dry when they get in.  Yes, lots of care is taken of the coats, but not to the detriment of the happiness and welfare of the dogs.  In fact, they positively enjoy the attention and the preening:)
bye
Gwen

Well on saturday my dog walked into the NEC with a smile on his face!!!  but i do think that was more of over an hours journey with 3 girls in the boot with him!!!!

And he smiled in the ring, but I think that was the livercake i was teasing him with at the time!!!!

LOL

and on friday I had a setter in the YKC collecting rings in my arms!!!! (is that crule??) because she loves seing over everyones heads!!!

Rox

Trying to think of a breed that may win in a show ring if it was not allowed to exercise by free running and lots of walks and good food ~ can't think of one that would win if it spent all it's time in a cage ~ can anyone else? Even the smallest dog in the world has to have well and fully developed muscles and a sound a strong bone suture.

You'd be surprised how many flabby dogs are out there with little muscle tone sadly.

Jesse

That I know but they don't win well. There are also those who think that putting a dog in the ring dirty is OK too, like there are loads of pet dogs who do not live an ideal life and have no muscle developement and are ungroomed as well.

Reading this thread, and agreeing about those wiht no muscle tone etc not winning a thought occurred - do you think the usual rumour mill could be partly to blame for the bizarre "dont touch my dong/cant let them get dirty" attitude of some people?  they hear that the top kennels/handlers NEVER let there dog run free/get muddy etc etc (wronglly, of course) and decide that is the only way to go if they want to win?

I remember several years ago after Mike did a Pedigree Chum add which showed out bunch galloping through a meadow and up a muddy lane that one of the dog papaers publisyhed a piece in which the author said she had seen the add and loved it, but had been receiving lots of phone calls from peoploe saying werent they wonderful dogs and having seen how thye behaved they wanted one, having always been put off by the profuse coat before.  She then reported that she had had to tell each caller that she had it on the best authority that in fact it was "all for TV effect" and that in fact all the dogs lived all day, every day, in cages with mesh bottoms, and never got loose play, to protect the coats!!!!  You can imagine that went down like a lead balloon with us.  So I rang and asked what her excellent authoirty was, and she said she had been told it was general knowledge in the breed. ;).  I gently told her about how the dogs lived, and that the coats were due to care not imprisonment, and offered her a visit to the kennels (declined) or photos, whch she said she would be thrilled to include in another aritcle - she never did.  However, any readers of this would probably be convinced that caged was the way to go to get a winning yankee, and might attempt to do so?
bye
Gwen

Gwen, think you may be right, either that or people are too laze or have too many dogs to care for properly. I am one who does not bath unless the dog is dirty but I do not have a breed with a glamour coat. Think it is important that people understand that when the judge touches a dog on the table they are checking that the dog is exercised in the correct way and in a sufficient amount. No matter how good the coat it can't hind bad conformation or lack of muscle from the judges hands. The journalist in question does not have a name beginning with B does she? ;)

I do know of a Cavalier breeder who's dogs do not go out into the garden in case they get dirty/damage coats they are also kept in pairs when they are no longer baby puppies again so they can't damage each other coats. They have a huge extension to their house & the place is spotless but their dogs are very "flat"& lack the typical Cavalier character

They also always have puppies available-a friend from the same area was told by them that they had at one stage hree litters two bitches due 3 just mated & a couple due in seaon !!!!!!!!!!! They have bred champions in the show ring & are respected within their cicle Whether their "friends" know exactly how their dogs are kept I doubt as they very reluctant to have people to visit other than to buy puppies & use their dogs(how do I know because I know their builder & maintenance men(both dog lovers) & have seen photographs taken by some german people who went to buy a puppy from them & were shown their"modern"facilities-they did not buy a puppy as they wanted a "typical"cavalier not a show robot & got a puppy elsewhere

They are not one of the top kennels though.

Phew,i am so relieved that not all dogs are kept in the manner i explained,thank-you for easing my mind,barr the 1 sarcastic comment To you i say,i was only stating what i have seen and heard,i did not say or think that all dogs were kept like this,it is only a minority,but one household full of dogs that are kept confined is too many!!!
Someone said it comes down to laziness,i have to agree,the breeder i saw had 12 very longhaired dogs,i couldnt imagine she would want to bath and blowdry all of them after a romp in the mud So she just avoids it,i'm sure the dogs would get a little muscle from playing with eachother???She couldnt watch them 24/7 i would hope!

Christine :)

I'm not sure if Cruel is the right word but what I do think is unfair about Crufts is having to keep your dog there until 4pm.  And it used to be 5pm! :-(  This is an awful lot to expect of a young dog who is entered into say the puppy dog class and judging starts at 8.30am.  You could be in and out of the ring by 9am but still have to stay there until 4pm.  Someone once told me its so that the public can wander round the benches speaking to owners/breeders.  Isn't that what Discover Dogs is for ?  And they could at least bring the departure time forward to say 1pm or 2pm. 

I also get annoyed at folk, particularly when I return to work and the non doggy people say things like.  Did you see the dog that won such and such class/group, urgh you can't call that a dog, its all hair or its got no tail or its face is squashed up or look at the way they clip its coat.  I wish people would understand that *mos*t dogs look a certain way in order to do the job they were bred for :rolleyes:

Personaly I will not take a dog that I feel can't cope with that long on a bench, the time has been bought forward to 4, and there are now outside exersise areas, but I still feel it is too much for some of the dogs and to be truefull too much for me too. Whilest there are those who are happy with the situation it will not change, and I do not think many will be voteing with their feet as most seem to think it such an honour.

Anyone who thinks that showdogs are always clean, I will gladly send you a photo of my gang after they've been digging in the garden, not a pretty sight I can tell you :d

I don't bath my boys very often...maybe twice a year but since they have to be done 3 or 4 days before a show I do restrict their exercise after a bath to on lead road work only when the weather is bad,
The rest ot the year they get an hours off lead everyday.... don't think I'm being cruel..I love my boys and if it meant they were unhappy I wouldn't show them...think most of us are the same
Archer

you cant show a dog if its not happy in the ring or around the place nime go mental when they no there going out to a show they also get so much atention expecally around crufts and they love it 60%of people probily dont even have a dog and have nothing to do so they sit around protesting i wish i had a dogs life at times its so much easier and fun dont worry bout it there just shit sturers who like to mess our hobbies up because they have nothing betta to do and have no fun like us or our dogs do
bibi
fiona

Hi Fiona.  Just seen your pic in our dogs this week.  Many congartulations on winning the YKC grooming competition at Crufts.  You kept that quiet.

hello haw is everyone
bibi
fiona

hello
i didnt want to sound a bighead by telling everyone its all because of all the help i got of people all the little tips i rememberd thankyou for the congratulations ok ill spill the rest i was on telly as well on sky cbbc channel on a program called xchange it was live as well :") :)
bibi
fiona

so what happend to everone at crufts this year #
bibi
fiona