If someone has a dog entered in say Post Grad, Limit and Open.
If they arrive late and miss Post Grad and Limit will they be allowed to enter the  Open class.
I didn't think they could my friend says they can.
Chow

You can show your dog in the class & if you are placed it's up to the KC to decide if you keep the placing

As I run a show I've had people try to tell me you cannot but it's in the rules only the KC can disqualify

Thanks for that Moonmaiden
Im wrong .Ill tell my friend she is right.
Chow

Nope, you are a beaten dog...in the same way that if you showed in the first class, won and withdrew from the second two....you would again become a beaten dog ;-)

You cannot have a beaten dog unless your dog has been shown

Depends on your reasons for missing the classes on whether or not your win/placing stands

For example a serious delay due to road accident like at Crufts taking 4 hours to travel three miles etc The only authority that can disqualify the dog is the KC

You can challenge for BOB etc but whether or not you keep any award is up to the KC

We've had that a few times & people have complained & tried to tell me that I can disqualify the dog as Show manager/chief steward. But I cannot it's all down to the KC

There has been such an incident a long time ago & the dog went on to win the CC & BOB & kept all the awards I cannot remember why it missed the limit class but the awards were upheld by the KC I think it was a massive delay that no one could have expected or allowed for

Moonmaiden is correct, they will be allowed to enter Open, but will be considered to be a beaten dog by the KC, so if they went on to win BOB or Group etc. they would be likely to have that award taken away by the KC.

To be honest the KC would be unlikely to pick it up if it was only a win in Open, but it is down to the Show Secretary to make a report to the KC so that they are aware of the situation, as I would if a dog withdrew after winning the first class, from subsequent classes.

Then it is down to them to adjudicate.

It is exactly the same situation if someone arrives at a show and an entry has not been received, we are obliged to take their entry fee, fill in an entry form, and allow them to exhibit, but they then have to provide proof of posting for the KC.  A show secretary cannot disqualify any dog from competiton.

The only time a dog can be disqualified on the day is by a judge who has reason to believe the dog is viscious or unwell.

The Secretary has to notify the KC & now with all records being kept on computer it's much more likely to get picked up especially at Ch shows

Definitely more likely at Champ Shows, but after talking to the KC this week. I was amazed to learn that they keep no records of Open Show entries on computer only keeping the completed catalogues for a year and then they are destroyed.

I know it's odd isn't it especially I know of one person who successfully showed a dog for years that wasn't even KC registered & it wasn't until someone complained that she was found out but the KC could do nothing as they had destroyed the catalogues

Isn't it just!!!

I was under the impression then now they are computerised it would be very simple to keep records of everything.

The reason I was asking was to update my CV and I had mislaid a Judging Book and Catalogue, thought they would be able to tell me my entries and absentees.

No such luck, so in other words I could put anything down and so could anyone else. Makes you laugh doesn't it.!!!!

Jayne

Ummm...check different schedules, you'd be amazed......;-)

I don't use schedules I use the Red Book for my infomarion Sorry being the last level of decision before the KC It's essential to know the rules & to use the correct source Not all printers keep their schedules up to the current rules etc

Technically speaking is it not the Kennel Gazette that is the most up to date as the red book is only updated yearly and some things come into effect between the publishing of one and the other?

& the KC site is even more upto date than the Gazette which I get & update my Red book from

I also get e mails from the KC if there is a change that would affect my shows

But things like missing classes have not been altered for many many years just had a look through the last 6 Red books

Can you answer this one please.   A dog was entered in A V Utility Puppy but was marked absent.  It was also entered in its breed class (after the utility puppy class) and came into the ring.  It won its breed class and was BOB.  It then proceeded to come into the group and the puppy group.  It was I hasten to add asked to leave the groups by the judge.  The secretary of the show said it had every right to be in the groups.  Is that right?  I have this feeling that you can withdraw from variety classes after your breed classes in order to stay unbeaten for the group but not vice versa.  Afterall we could all do it,  check in the catalogue to see who is entered and then not appear, but go in the breed class when you are the only one there!!

You are right but no one can stop them going into the group or breed only The KC can disqualify them

As a show secretary I have to report anything like this to the KC for them to decide on, unless the owner goes to the secretary before judging starts to change the entry say if they reallize the dog is not eligible for the class(over age, won out, handked by the judge/bred by judge etc)

I would think they will be disqualied from all their wins unless they had a very good reason to have missed the first class

It was mentioned at this particular show that if the exhibit was marked down as having been withdrawn then it was ok for it to go into the group but if it was marked as being absent then it couldnt go in.  It also happened in the terrier group, a puppy withdrew from its AV puppy class, then won its graduate breed class, was declared Best Puppy in Breed (even though another of its breed had one the AV class) so was eligible for the puppy group.  Doesnt make alot of sense to me.  It did get Puppy group 3 beating the other one of its breed!!!!

You can only withdraw after becoming eligible for BIS/BPIS/BIG/BPIG except as shown below

They can only be disqualified by the KC If the show executive prevent/deny the dog being shown they will be in the wrong & will subject to KC action. It is quite clear on the KC site & in the Red Book. there has been no change in this ruling. Only the KC can disqualify a dog from an incorrect win

If the owner is stopped from showing the dog they(the show executive) are in the wrong,

Edited to add from the KC site(it woulddn't let me add this before don't know why)
"Puppies which become eligible for Best Puppy in Group and Best Puppy in Show maybe withdrawn from all other competition, other than Breed Classes and Best Puppy in Breed, prior to the competition for Best Puppy in Group and Best Puppy in Show in order to remain unbeaten.  A puppy beaten in competition for Best Puppy in Group and Best Puppy in Show may subsequently be exhibited in all competition for which it was previously eligible.  The dog declared Best Puppy in Show, however, must not compete in any subsequent competition.
Puppies may be withdrawn from AV Classes when judged before Breed Classes".

Thanks for that......has explained what I thought was correct all along.  The only ruling I find difficult to understand is the one that says Puppies can be withdrawn from Variety classes when judged before Breed Classes.  As I said before, you can look in the catalogue, see what is entered and if you think you have a better chance in the breed, withdraw from the varieties and only go in your breed class. 

Well it was altered because in the dim & distant past the AV classes were always after the breed classes, but then shows started putting them all over the place so they brought in the being able to withdraw from AV classes but only for the puppies. I think it was to boost the AV classes but I think it's stupid

We don't have that problem at one of my shows are there are no breed classes(we only run Limited shows)for one & the other there are only breed classes(single breed & all breed obedience)

At least at the breed & obedience show everyone can enter their puppies from 4 months now makes my life easier :D