My dog doesn't chase other dogs, or cats (he's OK with them). He is reasonably well trained, recall is good, can't do instant down (tried but no success yet). However, if he see's a bunny or a pheasant he's after it and there's no stopping him until it goes where he can't go or he catches it (usually the first).

Well here we go, get the gun and shoot me but I have had dogs a long time, rescue ones, older ones, younger ones and deaf ones and they have all been taught not to chase anything and to do the instant down. Sorry, but I think a lot of you are getting lazy and not teaching your dogs who the master/mistress is in your house!!!  

:rolleyes: Do you live on 14 acres with a million rabbits then? I like my dogs to enjoy their walks, and if that involves chasing a few rabbits then so be it. Doesn't mean you are any better an owner because you enjoy training your dogs to that degree. My dogs chase rabbits, but ignore the horses and the sheep - so whats the problem?

isnt it their natural instinct to chase things? :)

Likewise, Chloe! My neighbours don't want their sheep's grazing eaten by rabbits, so they are pleased if we help keep the rabbit population down. The dogs are trained not to chase sheep, however.
:)

Well now, I don't live in 14 acres, I do how ever live on this earth and I forsee danger if you don't. If your dog chases a rabbit and gets into a field with sheep and the farmer is there with a gun, and rightly so, what would you do then. Blame yourself, your dog or the farmer.!!! I think this discussion has gone on long enough before a lot more people get upset. I am sure you don't agree with hare coursing or do you.?

I don't post on here much but Jumbuck it seems that you are trying to start an argument here

" I am sure you don't agree with hare coursing or do you?"

Now it is down to the indervidual if they agree with this sport or not.

Hows he going to get in the field with the sheep - its fenced off and I know it. The rabbit easily outruns my dog... so perhaps you shouldn't comment on people individually when you are not in full possession of the facts? Neither of my dogs are interested in sheep anyway - we are surrounded by them - I haven't had to teach an instant down for that either :rolleyes:

<i>"I am sure you don't agree with hare coursing or do you.?"</i>

I do!

Now I'm going to stick my oar in here and say that I have working dogs who are required to retrieve dead and live "targets" (for want of a better word) to "earn their keep" (and I just know someones is going to object to that statement). 

When we are out for a walk, if they put up a rabbit or phesant, they will chase, it's fun and its natural - however - also as part of their working training they are required to stop the instant I say so, regardless of whether they are meandering down a path, or going headlong after something. 

They don't chase sheep & are used to riding out.  So no issue there.

As a rule I let them chase rabbits - BUT - I am very careful of where we are and if I think they could be mistaken for sheep botherers or any other sort of menace, I'll stop them.  Sometimes it is very useful to have trained in that little bit extra.

My dog  has been taught to retrieve game dead or alive, and when she chases a rabbit I could give a stop whistle, but why should I as rabbits are a pest here and cause injuries to horses and cows regularly through them putting a foot down a rabbit hole, and I know here the farmers are happy to see rabbits being culled. Sorry, if that makes me a lazy owner then thats what I am.

What impresses me most is all you people who can get dead rabbits off your dog.

Darcy bless her couldnt catch a live rabbit if her life depended on it, shes too much of a puddin' but she regularly sniffs out foxy leftovers and once she's got them you cant get within 15feet of her cos she knows full well you want to take it off of her. We regularly have to listen to bone crunching from a distance but she never gives the food her entire attention she's always got a sneaky eye on us.
Recently I was out with friends walking her and she got one and we couldnt get it off her with 5 of us. she was just too wiley for us.

Normally her recall is brilliant but if she knows shes got something she shouldnt thats it.
How on earth did you train your dogs to that level or are they just nmot as greedy as mine.

"How on earth did you train your dogs to that level or are they just nmot as greedy as mine."

Lots of training.  I was grouse counting with my gwp today and he hunted and pointed a rabbit (he's not supposed to but I didn't realise it was a rabbit).  He followed it a bit and I called him back.  It takes a lot of initial training but it can be done.  It's something which is a no no with working gundogs.  Start 'em young :-D

Helen

Jumbuck

You are dead right...in an ideal word (as CloeH has already said), but...

My terriers are pretty damn obedient (for terriers).  However, when letting three of them out last thing at night for a wee, and finding a rabbit mooching around on the drive (less than 8 feet from us), I cannot imagine there is a dog trainer on this earth who could over-ride their instincts in this situation....

I do indeed take *responsibility* for their actions, but in certain circumstances it is not possible to *control* their actions...and I shouldn't need to have them on leads on my own property, when I live miles from anyone.  Their action was to kill said rabbit, and i took responsibility by taking it away and disposing of it...

Hey - I started this argument a week ago - didn't realise it was still going !!.

Just a quick update. My lad hasn't caught anything at all (has been having a good try though !). Today he seemed much less interested in the rabbits and more interested in his tennis ball !. Long may it continue !!.

Val

The one time mine managed to catch one (several years ago now) I had no choice in the matter. Florence took it up a hill and had eaten it completely (even down to the tail!) before I could get near her. I didn't even try to call her - Maremma recall is challenging at the best of times - with a fresh rabbit at stake? Not a chance! Thankfully it was a clean kill - she grabbed it by the neck and it was dead pretty instantaneously - just a baby one I think. Not pleasant and certainly not something I'd encourage but once caught I would say better for the rabbit to let the dog kill it cleanly (assuming it will).

I guess it does depend on the breed involved - I would think gundogs (especially trained ones) would bring it to hand but I wouldn't fancy your chances with a terrier (or a hound - or a flock guard!)

Janet

OMG - now I am dreading my working cocker pup presenting me with a rabbit, especially an injured live one.  How do you 'despatch' them when that happens?

Quick blow to the base of the skull with a heavy stick will despatch a rabbit. After which, carry it by the hind legs or you will taint the meat. (Opposite to a Pheasant which is carried by the neck.)

As an aside, a working gundog should never be allowed to "Free Hunt" or you are in danger of making it "too hot" It is frowned on for a picking up or beating dog to actually catch (Peg) game although it is sometimes difficult to convince a dog that it is ok to chase and retrieve a "Pricked" bird but not an un-shot bird!

Best wishes, John

I live quite near to Forestry Commision woodland, where there are loads of deer. In fact they are now getting quite tame and laid back. One of the workers told my friend one day that if a Ranger sees a dog chasing a deer he has the authority to shoot the dog. Haven't heard of it happening though, thank goodness. Also read somewhere, that a dog chased and killed a squirrel in a park, can't remember where and the owner was fined £1,000.

I can assure you than any person carrying a loaded gun, shotgun or otherwise in a park with public admittance would loose his gun licence immediately! The risks to walkers would be immense. The laws in this country are most strict on the discharge of firearms in a public place!

No Forestry Commission Ranger would ever do such at stupid thing! He would loose his livelihood!

John

Sorry I spoke John, just repeating what I was told. I have seen them myself with deer that have been in a RTA and very injured.  I will call in at the office tomorrow and get their opinion on the subject.

They might be saying it to try to frighten people SashaKameo, and if it does then more power to their elbow. But very obviously they cannot go around shooting dogs in a public place. If they missed the dog and hit the human they would be on a murder charge.

I regulaly train in one of the Royal Deer parks. Most dogs can be trained to leave to leave livestock and wild animals alone AND SHOULD BE.

John

I agree with you John, they were probably just saying it to frighten people, but if they were in a situation where they saw a dog on its own chasing a deer near to the public highway and thought it might cause a RTA, who knows?  It's like a farmer shooting a dog who worries his sheep, it's probably on his own land, but there could be humans around. I've had deer run out in front of me followed by a dog, they can cause very nasty accidents. I'm not saying that anyone carries a loaded shotgun around willynilly.

Nobody is allowed to shoot towards the public highway, if it is likely to be within range. Remember the recent outcry when a private shoot, on private land, was too close to a school?

I just wish I had never got invovled with this arguement. Did I say about anyone shooting TOWARDS a public highway???????  I'm not daft or stupid, I only know what I have seen myself. I wouldn't walk miles every day through the forest on my own (being female) if I thought every forestry worker carried a loaded shotgun. I wouldn't loose a dog off a lead if I thought I couldn't control it in a situation, but there are some dog owners who think it's quite funny to have an untrained dog, you get the usual ones who say my dog's alright, then the next thing they are wanting to fight your dog, and their owner is laughing his socks off.

I was not arguing with you SashaKameo, just stating facts. Note my last comment form my post three posts ago.

<<Most dogs can be trained to leave to leave livestock and wild animals alone AND SHOULD BE.

Regards, John

<<but if they were in a situation where they saw a dog on its own chasing a deer near to the public highway and thought it might cause a RTA, who knows? >>

SashaKameo, to me that reads as though the forestry worker would shoot a dog if it was near enough to the highway to cause a RTA. As John rightly says, that would be illegal and the forester would probably lose his job as well as his gun licence.

Know the thread has changed tact slightly, was sure I posted this somewhere higher but cant find it now.

What impresses me most is all you people who can get dead rabbits off your dog.

Darcy bless her couldnt catch a live rabbit if her life depended on it, shes too much of a puddin' but she regularly sniffs out foxy leftovers and once she's got them you cant get within 15feet of her cos she knows full well you want to take it off of her. We regularly have to listen to bone crunching from a distance but she never gives the food her entire attention she's always got a sneaky eye on us.
Recently I was out with friends walking her and she got one and we couldnt get it off her with 5 of us. she was just too wiley for us.

Normally her recall is brilliant but if she knows shes got something she shouldnt thats it.
How on earth did you train your dogs to that level or are they just nmot as greedy as mine.

The problem my my breed is getting the lazy blighters to bring the killed rabbits back. :) They much prefer to drop them and lgo ook for another one to chase.

Its not so bad getting them to drop caught rabbits, but when they're munching rats & you have to remove them from their gobs..... yuk...

Geoff :)

It is illegal to fire a shotgun over a highway so if a dog is heading in that direction a ranger would not, by law be able to do anything about it.

Actually, it is a fallacy that a farmer has a RIGHT to shoot a dog worrying his sheep. Some do but some have got into rather a lot of trouble over it including loosing their shotgun licence.

Believe me SashaKameo, gun laws and that includes shotguns are extremely tight in the UK. The days of keeping a shotgun under the bed and wandering down the road to have a pop at rabbits as my uncle used to do are long since past. There was a case last year where a man lost his licence because when the police came to inspect his gun cabinet in his absence, his wife fetched the key to unlock it! Only the licence holder is allowed to know where the key is kept. Even his wife is not allowed to know. That is how strict the law is, and rightly so.

Regards John

And the police shouldn't be inspecting in his absence.

In Somerset at least they make an appointment to ensure the license holder is there.

I can't remember the full story now Julia but you probably saw it at the time. It was in Shooting Times and if my memory serves me correct it was sometime early last year. The full details of why the licence holder was not there (Forgot???) escapes me now but the fact was that he got his licence pulled because his wife, a person without a shotgun licence knew where the key was kept. Therefore as an unlicensed person technically she had access to firearms.

Best wishes, John

Not so long ago a similar thing happened in Avon & Somerset, but the Judge deemed it ridiculous that the spouse should not know where the key was kept & chucked it out.

Unfortunately, whilst the rulles are specific & strict so much of the implementation is left to the area commissoners discretion.

There was a case brought against a dog that chased a grey squirrel in a park reported in Our Dogs a short time ago, but as far as I remember it was thrown out.