Can someone give a bit of information, please.  I know that different breeds are in certain.  My particular breed, beagle, is in BandD, but what exactly does it mean.  

do you mean for insurance purposes?

No, sorry for the confusion - showing!

Hi the band your dog is in effects the position it has to attain to gain its stud book number band d you have to win in Limit or Place in the first 3 in Open. HTH Gillian

Right, so how does it win its stud book number and then what does that mean?

Hi as I said to win its stud book no. it has to gain 1st in Limit or 1st 2nd or 3rd in Open at Championship Shows which then means its qualified Crufts for life and gets entered in the Kennel Club Stud Book. :) Gillian
Just to add a reserve CC or a CC also give it a stud book number as does a JW

Also a CoM in the TD/PD stake entitles a dog to a stud book number and of course being WT Ch, FT Ch, Ag Ch, Ob Ch

So, (excuse me for being thick), if a dog wins one limit class in a champ show, does this mean it qualifies the dog at Crufts for life?  I thought a dog only qualified for life if it was a champion.  - shows how much I'm still learning.

Gillian sorry to but in,but how do you find out the band your dog is in?
and if i was the only dog in the open class at a champshow(which i know is unlikley) would that still mean i qualifiy for a stud book number.
Carol

The KC publishes the bands every year and yes if you win Limit, you win limit and would get a stud book number.

BAND A - 1ST OPEN CLASS

HOUND GROUP: Bloodhound, Dachshund (Smooth Haired), Dachshund (Wire Haired), Finnish Spitz, Greyhound, Ibizan Hound, Otterhound, Pharaoh Hound.

GUNDOG GROUP: Brittany, Retriever (Curly Coated), Spaniel (Irish Water), Spaniel (Sussex).

TERRIER GROUP: Australian Terrier, Bull Terrier (Miniature), Dandie Dinmont Terrier, Fox Terrier (Smooth), Fox Terrier (Wire), Irish Terrier, Kerry Blue Terrier, Lakeland Terrier, Manchester Terrier, Norwich Terrier, Sealyham Terrier, Skye Terrier, Welsh Terrier.

UTILITY GROUP: Boston Terrier, Japanese Shiba Inu, Schnauzer, Shar Pei.

PASTORAL GROUP: Collie (Smooth), Hungarian Puli, Lancashire Heeler, Maremma Sheepdog, Norwegian Buhund, Polish Lowland Sheepdog, Swedish Vallhund, Welsh Corgi (Cardigan).

WORKING GROUP: Bouvier Des Flandres, Giant Schnauzer, Leonberger.

TOY GROUP: English Toy Terrier, Lowchen, Maltese.

BAND B - 1ST/2ND OPEN CLASS

HOUND GROUP: Basenji, Basset Griffon Vendeen (Petit), Dachshund (Long Haired), Dachshund (Miniature Smooth Haired), Norwegian Elkhound.

GUNDOG GROUP: German Wirehaired Pointer, Irish Red & White Setter, Large Munsterlander, Spaniel (Clumber), Spaniel (Field).

TERRIER GROUP: Airedale Terrier, Bedlington Terrier, Bull Terrier, Norfolk Terrier, Parson Russell Terrier, Scottish Terrier.

UTILITY GROUP: Chow Chow, French Bulldog, German Spitz (Klein), German Spitz (Mittel), Japanese Spitz, Keeshond, Schipperke.

PASTORAL GROUP: Belgian Shepherd Dog (Groenendael), Briard, Pyrenean Mountain Dog.

WORKING GROUP: Mastiff, St. Bernard.

TOY GROUP: Affenpinscher, Chihuahua (Smooth Coat), Griffon Bruxellois, Italian Greyhound, Miniature Pinscher.

BAND C - 1ST/2ND OPEN CLASS & 1ST LIMIT CLASS

HOUND GROUP: Basset Hound, Borzoi, Dachshund (Miniature Long Haired), Dachshund (Miniature Wire Haired), Deerhound, Irish Wolfhound, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Saluki.

GUNDOG GROUP: Hungarian Vizsla, Italian Spinone, Spaniel (American Cocker), Spaniel (Welsh Springer).

TERRIER GROUP: Cairn Terrier, Soft-Coated Wheaten Terrier.

UTILITY GROUP: Akita, Bulldog, Miniature Schnauzer, Poodle (Miniature), Poodle (Standard), Poodle (Toy), Tibetan Spaniel.

PASTORAL GROUP: Belgian Shepherd Dog (Tervueren), German Shepherd Dog, Old English Sheepdog, Samoyed, Welsh Corgi (Pembroke).

WORKING GROUP: Bullmastiff.

TOY GROUP: Bichon Frise, Chihuahua (Long Coat), Chinese Crested, Japanese Chin, King Charles Spaniel, Pekingese, Pomeranian, Pug, Yorkshire Terrier.

BAND D - 1ST/2ND/3RD OPEN CLASS & 1ST LIMIT CLASS

HOUND GROUP: Beagle.

GUNDOG GROUP: English Setter, German Shorthaired Pointer, Gordon Setter, Pointer, Spaniel (English Springer).

TERRIER GROUP: Border Terrier, West Highland White Terrier.

UTILITY GROUP: Dalmatian, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Tibetan Terrier.

PASTORAL GROUP: Collie (Rough)

WORKING GROUP: Bernese Mountain Dog, Newfoundland, Siberian Husky.

TOY GROUP: Papillon.

BAND E - 1ST/2ND/3RD OPEN CLASS OR LIMIT CLASS

HOUND GROUP: Afghan Hound, Whippet.

GUNDOG GROUP: Irish Setter, Retriever (Flat Coated), Retriever (Golden), Retriever (Labrador), Spaniel (Cocker), Weimaraner.

TERRIER GROUP: Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

UTILITY GROUP:

PASTORAL GROUP: Bearded Collie, Border Collie, Shetland Sheepdog.

WORKING GROUP: Boxer, Dobermann, Great Dane, Rottweiler.

TOY GROUP: Cavalier King Charles Spaniel.

My word, not busy today ;)

Excellent work Tohme, but do you know what group the Aust Cattle Dog falls into, or where I can get a list of the bands?
Many thanks, Hayley

Pastoral.

Sorry Jackie, badly worded, I know they are in pastoral, I am keen to know which 'band group' they are in, or where I can find the listings

Hayley

The were on the Rare Breeds register I think, but they may now be awarded CC's. Believe that only breeds that are awarded CC's can be in the stud book and until a breed comes off Rare Breeds register they will not be given a band. Sure that is as clear as mud and probably wrong.

Thanks Jackie, the ACD's are not yet being awarded CC's, probably due to them being so few in this country, that explains why I can't find them!

Im going to ask the most irritating question ... why ?? :P  why is it different for different breeds ??

So am I ;) what is so different?

I mean why are different breeds in different bands ?? why cant it be the same for all ?? (or am I misunderstanding this totally ;) )

It is an attempt to make things fair, in breeds where there are fewer dogs then you have to get a higher win, in breeds where there are loads of exhibitors then the stud number is given to more places in more classes.

I did think that was the reasoning behind it but I was thinking it should be the other way round ie. the less dogs then the more awarded - dont know why must be having a blonde moment what you say makes perfect sense :)

In a breed with low numbers there may be say 7 in open class and 5 in Limit and the band will allow that the 1st in open will get a stud book number. In a breed where there are say 34 in open and 28 in limit the the 1st, 2nd & 3rd in both open and limit will get a stud book number. It is done because out of 7 dogs even the one being awarded a 1st in open may only be a reasonable dog but the dog awarded 3rd in a class of 34 may well be a quality dog, so it is an attempt to even things out, not perfect but a good effort.

hi,
   Soz but can you repeat, how many dogs need to be in the same class(open,limit)to qualify you for the stud book number?
Surely it cant be obtained if there is only 1 dog entered!
By the way thanks to all you knowledgable champdoggers,ive just learned something new!!!!!!!!

                                              sam

I remember showing at Richmond one year and there were only 6 dogs in the open class (Afghans) our dogs came 5th and 6th so if there had been less dogs they could have qualified for a stud book number as much as I loved those dogs neither were worthy of qualifying once for crufts let alone life :D :D  (they did ok as youngsters but in the end the only reason my dad showed them was so I could show them in junior handling :) )

Sambull, Yes they can, I was trying to explain why the different bands. If only 1 dog is entered in Open then it is up to the judge, if they award the dog a 1st, 2nd or what have you they will get a stud book number, if the judge thinks that the dog is not worthy they will not make the award of the placing that would get the exhibit a studbook number. Wish I could explain what I know in a more clear way, sorry.

so if only one dog entered they could award that dog 4th place so it doesnt get the stud book number ??

also, where does a dog need to be placed (and how many times) to qualify for crufts ?

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE QUALIFICATIONS A DOG MUST HAVE FOR ENTRY AT CRUFTS 2004.

ENTRY IN BREED CLASSES AT CRUFTS 2004, WHERE CHALLENGE CERTIFICATES ARE OFFERED.

A dog is eligible for entry in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are offered if it has qualified in any of the following ways under the Rules and Regulations of the Kennel Club.

If it is a Champion, Show Champion, Field Trial Champion, Working Trial Champion or Obedience Champion under the Rules of the Kennel Club.

If it is entered in the Kennel Club Stud Book, or qualifies for entry in the Kennel Club Stud Book by 2 January 2004.

If it is entered in the Kennel Club Stud Book, or qualifies for entry in the Kennel Club Stud Book by 2 January 2004 through Field Trials or Working Trials.

If it has won any of the following prizes in a breed class (as defined in Kennel Club Regulations for the Definitions of Classes at Championship Shows) at a Championship Show, including Crufts, where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed between 3 January 2003 and 2 January 2004.

First, Second or Third in Minor Puppy Class
First, Second or Third in Puppy Class
First, Second or Third in Junior Class
First, Second or Third in Yearling Class (For breeds in Stud Book Band E only - see list below)
First, Second or Third in Post Graduate Class
First, Second or Third in Limit Class
First, Second or Third in Open Class
First in Veteran Class

STUD BOOK BAND E

Hound Group: Afghan Hound, Whippet

Gundog Group: English Setter, Irish Setter, Retriever (Flat Coated), Retriever (Golden), Retriever (Labrador), Spaniel (Cocker), Weimaraner

Terrier Group: Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Utility Group: Shih Tzu

Pastoral Group: Bearded Collie, Border Collie, Collie (Rough), Shetland Sheepdog

Working Group: Boxer, Dobermann, Great Dane, Rottweiler

Toy Group: Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

If it has won a First Prize in a breed class at Crufts 2003. Other then Puppy, Junior, Yearling (Stud Book Band E Breeds only), Post Graduate, Limit and Open at Crufts 2003, which does qualify in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

If a Beagle, has won a First Prize at a Hound Show between 3 January 2003 and 2 January 2004 held under the Rules and Regulations of the Masters of Harriers and Beagles Association.

If it has won Best in Show, Reserve Best in Show or Best Puppy in Show at a General or Group Open Show between 3 January 2003 and 2 January 2004.

ENTRY IN BREED CLASSES AT CRUFTS 2004 WHERE CHALLENGE CERTIFICATES ARE NOT OFFERED.

A dog is eligible for entry in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are not offered if it has qualified in any of the following ways under the Rules and Regulations of the Kennel Club.

If it has been declared Best of Sex or Reserve Best of Sex of a Breed or gained any of the following Prizes in Breed or Variety Classes at a Championship Show, including Crufts between 3 January 2003 and 2 January 2004.

First, Second or Third in Minor Puppy Class
First, Second or Third in Puppy Class
First, Second or Third in Junior Class
First, Second or Third in Post Graduate Class
First, Second or Third in Limit Class
First, Second or Third in Open Class
First in Veteran Class

If it has won a First Prize in a breed class at Crufts 2003. Other then Puppy, Junior, Post Graduate, Limit and Open at Crufts 2003, which does qualify in 1st, 2nd & 3rd..

If it has won Best in Show, Reserve Best in Show or Best Puppy in Show at a General or Group Open Show held between 3 January 2003 and 2 January 2004.

These were the qualifiying requirements this year.However the Kennel Club does change them so could be different for next year.Gillian

thank you :)

OK, off on another tack, a dog can't be placed 4th if the judge has withheld the 1st, 2nd & 3rd, because the 4th is in fact the reserve and you can't be reserve of nothing. So if a judge is unhappy with the only dog in the class and they are not prepared to give it an award that would either qualify it for Crufts for that year or give it a stud book number that qualifies it for the rest of it's life (well until it is 12) they may well withhold all awards.

In practice it is normally only in the lower classes that the judge will not feel able to award a 1st or 2nd and will then give the dog a 3rd. But it is not that uncommon for a judge to award 1st to 2nd or 3rd and then withhold all further awards.

Well I've certainly learnt something - so thanks everyone.