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Topic Dog Boards / Health / feeding probs
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 02.03.04 08:35 UTC
Bitch welped 2 pups 2 days early last night.
Pup 1  a boy is just 3 oz.Pup 2 a girl is 5 and a half oz.Problem is they both favour the same teat and no matter what the little one gets pushed off by his sibling or licked to death by an anxious mum.I slept next to them last night  checking then at hourly intervals.If I put him to the teat he suckles well  but he can't seem to find it on his own.He's not constantly crying but not as content as the other one.
I do sometimes find him out on his own,not discarded as such but seems to be lost.
Shall I give him a couple of bottle feeds or just persevere with the putting him on his mum.
It's her first litter by the way.
- By Kerioak Date 02.03.04 09:38 UTC
Don't give a bottle.  Mum's milk is best and they will still be getting colostrum at the moment.  There should be a selection of teats to choose from so just put one of them on a different teat - if covered in hair then trim around it to make it more accessible.  You will probably find that by tonight they are feeding well, it sometimes takes a few hours to regather their strength after birth.
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 02.03.04 11:14 UTC
what if I express a bit from her .I'm worried he'll dehydrate if he's not taking in enough fluid.Maybe a little glucose solution dripped into the side of his mouth via syringe rather than a bottle.
What do u think.
I've bottle fed pups before with mum having a really large litter and  needing a little help so I think I know what I'm doing.
Also back teats are looking a little engorged ,should I express??
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 02.03.04 11:44 UTC
Rather than express from the back teats, can you put the smaller/weaker pup onto them?
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 02.03.04 12:07 UTC
tried that and he just wont feed from them,only the two up from the back.Managed to get the little bitch pup to feed from those so that solves my problem there.
Still not getting far with the dog pup though.unless I put him on the teat he  doesn't get any.
Bitch is tending to ignore him and concentrate on the bitch pup.
As far as I can see there is nothing wrong with him other than he's tiny.
He suckled for 5 mins  about 10 mins ago.Is that enough???
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 02.03.04 12:50 UTC
Five minutes isn't bad. Try him again in half an hour. When they're tiny and new, suckling is quite an effort. Little and often is good at this stage. Take care that the very rear teats don't get ignored completely. They are usually the ones that produce the most milk, and are most likely to get mastitis. If you are going to express milk from anywhere, do it from these and give it to the pup.

They are a worry, aren't they?
- By Fillis Date 02.03.04 12:54 UTC
If he is small, perhaps the back teat is too big for him? I had one from my last litter smaller than the rest and didnt gain or lose weight for first three days. She wouldnt go on back teat and I think it was because milk flow was too strong for her to take. Try to make sure he suckles regularly and doesnt lose any weight. Also check he is not cool or dehydrating. With just two puppies he should be able to get his fair share. Also try to make the stronger one suckle from as many teats as you can to keep milk flow going and avoid mastitis.
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 02.03.04 13:05 UTC
He is nice and warm but not gaining.He's a little fighter  but can't seem to find the teat on his own.Yes you are right the back teats are too big for him but I'm trying to get the other one on those.Unfortunately everytime I leave the welping shed ,when I return he's  to one side,not pushed out as such just not next to mum.She is cleaning him so I don't think shes neglecting him.He is really  trying though
- By Fillis Date 02.03.04 13:29 UTC
Hopefully, he is not being pushed away by mum but cant claw his way back, and she will not move to him if the other is suckling. It could also be that with him being small he appears to be pushed away because mum is washing him. Have you a heat pad underneath so he doesnt chill if away from mum? If you make sure he suckles every half hour he should put weight on, but of course he will be using energy as it is hard work for him to suckle. As long as you make sure he is holding his own he should start to gain weight when mums milk becomes creamier. My little girl, although smaller than her brothers and sisters came on wonderfully, opening eyes and getting to her feet at the same time as the rest, but I just made sure that she suckled more often than the others, to appease myself that she wasnt hungry.
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 02.03.04 13:35 UTC
No they are not on a heat pad  but are under a lamp and the welping shed is heated.Should I give a little glucose solution  to boost his energy?
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 02.03.04 13:44 UTC
If you give him glucose he is likely to get the runs (sugars are laxative) and will have less room for milk.
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 02.03.04 14:29 UTC
Ok thanks .I'm putting him on the teat every half hour or so and once he even found it himself.
Mum is still not very maternal towards him tho lets him wander around ,not happy about that.
Thanks for all your advice
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 03.03.04 10:17 UTC
You'll be pleased to know he's doing well so far.I'm putting him to his mum every hour for 10 mins or so.His skin doesn't look so wrinkly now so I think he's re-hydrated.Looks like he's a little fighter anyway.Missed my beauty sleep last night again but  there you go.
- By jas Date 03.03.04 12:43 UTC
Sorry JG, but can't agree about this or not bottle feeding expressed milk. After chilling, dehydration and hypoglycaemia are in line for the second biggest puppy killers and this little chap sounded like a candidate for both. Some small pups do have a lot of bother latching onto teats but manage bigger looking but firmer bottle teats fine and the milk is the same either way.
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 03.03.04 13:01 UTC
I'm confused here
Do I or do I not give him glucose??
- By Kerioak Date 03.03.04 13:14 UTC
No!!  No glucose unless mum cannot feed him as her milk should be preferable and contain everying a neonate needs.  Did you get the vet to come and check mum and pups after she finished whelping as he may have some defect that is not immediately obvious?

Sucking for 5 -10 minutes if he is getting milk should be fine as this can be hard work for a pup and most go to sleep whilst doing it.

If he is being pushed away then make the box smaller for a while - a box inside the main box if necessary so that he is always in contact with mum and sister.

Just in case you don't know, puppies cannot digest food if they are chilled so warmth then food are the vital things to start with. 

You can get pet bed warmers from Petnap - 0800 0277 952 and put this under the box as well as the lamp over.  Heat from underneath is often more comfortable for mum and pups
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 03.03.04 13:04 UTC
I can quite see your point, but I have found that bottle-feeding should only be considered as a very last resort - many people have found that bottle-fed or supplemented pups never seem to thrive as their normally-suckling siblings. If it is going to be done, then expressed milk is undoubtedly the best - glucose is certainly a laxative (look at the ingredients in over-the-counter liquid laxatives!), but a drop or two (literally no more) may be advantageous.

Also many bitches will not tolerate being 'milked' - there is an art to it!
:)
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 03.03.04 18:35 UTC
I'm persevering with putting him to his mum every hour or so.He seems ok but I'm still not sure he isn't a little dehydrated.He hasn't put on any weight yet but not lost any either.
Yes of course I've had mum and pups checked out.Vet couldn't find anything noticably wrong with him other than him being very small,he didn't however think he would survive unaided.He was the one who suggested I give the glucose in tiny amounts.
I've given him 1ml in tiny drops today,but don't plan to give him any more inless he stops feeding from mum.
Am I doing right????
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 03.03.04 18:57 UTC
Just a thought - was mum mated just the once, or more? If more, how many days apart? (I may be completely off-track here, but humour me!)
:)
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 04.03.04 10:57 UTC
That was my first thought as well.
Yes there were 2 matings one on Jan 3rd and one on 5th.Plus the fact that by my calculations she was 2 days early anyway.This would make him 4 days prem I suppose.
Well he's put on 1oz  this morning.Hubby says I'm fighting a loosing battle but I'm not prepared to give up on him .We've got a long way to go and if it kills me I'm gonna try
- By Fillis Date 04.03.04 12:49 UTC
one oz in how long? For a 3oz puppy in a couple of days it is good - mine was 6oz at birth and didnt gain or loose for three days. Her bigger siblings, at 9oz plus birth weight only gained an ounce or an ounce and a half in first couple of days - dont despair.
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 04.03.04 13:46 UTC
His bithweight was 3oz on Mon eve.Tues and wed morn still 3oz ,today 4oz.
Do u think he's just prem??
- By kia mummy [gb] Date 06.03.04 08:30 UTC
He's put on another half an ounce so I think all those sleepless nights are starting to pay off at last.
I'm so pleased,I've brought pups back before when they've got  cold or were just a bit dehydrated,but never one this small.I know we are not out of the woods yet and we still have a way to go but he's looking much  more perky today.Thanks to everyone for their help
Topic Dog Boards / Health / feeding probs

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