Hiya, another one from me yet again (sorry admin btw about the other BARF thread in 'feeding' - i'm honestly not trying to be a nuisance!).

We have a lovely dog (aussie cattle dog x border collie) and he pulls like hell ona  lead. He learns very quickly, but i cant figure out how to stop him doing this. I have in the past tried jerking the lead (which i know is SO SO wrong and i hate myself for doing it) but was desperate. He's not all that big, but as anyone knows, its no fun walking with your arm coming out of its socket!

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

There are a variety of ways of tackling this problem - why not do a search on 'pulling on lead' and see what you come up with - choose one method and STICK WITH IT - most people fail because they are not consistent - which means the dog learns that if he, in turn, keeps up with his efforts he will eventually get his way, which makes the habit all the harder to break :(

Thank you digger - very good advice. Also we must make sure the whole family knwo the rule and trianing method chosen! Thank you. :)

Thought maybe i should add that we use stretchy leads. but i'm coming to the conclusion that they are just an excuse not to train a dog properly. are they good these whizzy leads that stretch in and out or a bad thing?

Personally I haven't found them any use, they seem to reinforce the pulling thing (the dog knows the lead will go further)  and near a road they can be a disaster.

There are plenty of posts on here about pulling dogs, as digger said, find one you think will work with your dog.

I use a halti. You can get a link if your worried that they will get out of it. I was amazed at the difference it made. It also stops them from choking. Mine pulled so hard he was nearly sick. Also a great way to distract them from other dogs, all you do is turn their head away and it doesnt cause any pain.

Halti's dont work for all

Worked a treat on my akita (only had to use if for about 4 weeks)

will not work on my lab and I tried for 4 months - dog used to get so stressed it wasn't pleasant, still haven't found a way to cure her pulling she is so interested in what is out in the big wide world (shes 15mths) that she generally tunes you out (selective deafness :))

Comtemplating an electronic collar next

I really hope that you are not contemplating an electric collar if you mean the type that gives a dog an electric shock. 

If you cannot be bothered to put in the training required to stop your dog pulling and a headcollar or harness is not "managing" the situation then perhaps this lab is not for you.

Whilst I admit that I did not put the same level of training into my lab as I did my akita my lab is incredibly well trained, except she will not heel.  Just about everything else I wish her to do she will do, so please think before you pass assumptions

As to the halt I introduced it exactly as the guide said and indeed to this day I can put in on my lab and she will run around all day with it on it I let her without a complaint in the world - except when it is used to stop her pulling

What I was trying to get to was that different techniques work for different dogs and ownes

Different techniques DO work for different dogs.  However I would not class the electric shock collar as a "technique" for behaviour management! I think it is a barbaric piece of equipment which should only, IF EVER, be used in the hands of experts where euthanasia is the only alternative eg sheep worrying.  :(

http://www.apbc.org.uk/ARTICLE2.htm

I have recently met someone that used the e-collar to train gun dogs.  I placed my own hand on the prongs that give the electric signal so I feel what is delivered to the animal.  As I am new to the dog owner world, I am hoping there will not be any sarcastic responses to this note.  But, when a dog is really on a track- off in a distance, and it seems the rest of the world does not exist.......well, I was begining to consider that a small signal might be enough to get the dog's attention on the owner or just stop the dog from say...running into a road.  My dog is so darn fast and can really get ahead of me on the trails.  It is as if her nose is pulling her away from me.  I have always heard to only give a command once.  Let's say my pup is up ahead of me on the trail.  The pup is very enthusiastic to greet the jogger coming our way...I give a verbal command once, but I am ignored...then what means do I have to handle the dog's behavior which is out of my physical reach at that moment? 

I do continue to take her out daily so WE can learn. 

Sorry but resorting to using an e collar because the dog has not received correct basic training is barbaric especially if the dog is out of sight it is using punishment as a training aid which has no place in the training of any animal.

I've never had the problem of  dog pulling on the lead because I train them to walk to heel off lead before they have a lead put on them. Whether they are my obedience or my show dogs. My dogs walk with me because they have been trained to do so, rather than being forced to do so because I have attached a lead to them

I suppose I am at a bit of a loss of what to do.  I have this English Pointer that has sooooo much energy.  She has to run.  I have to take her to areas open to the public to run.  My yard does not satisfy her needs for exercise.  Going to public places means meeting other people and dogs.  We did obedience classes 3 times.  But new dogs and new people are much more interesting than me, it seems.  I want to get to the point where the command is given only once.  I still need to learn how to do that.  You say your dogs walked in heel before you ever put a lead on??????  How?  Trying to do the right thing....

By training them as soon as I get them, using motivational techniques suvch as toys, titbits(never used a clicker but this could be used as well)

It's a case of getting your dogs attention totally on you & keeping it there. it's harder than using the usual restraint(lead0methods, but at the end of the day it's easier as the dog wants to be with you rather than having to be with you because of the lead

It works for me & is JMHO

It may be prudent to remember that what may appear as a small jolt to us may not be to the dog; all of us have differing pain thresholds and species have differing pain thresholds too. 

It is extremely important when choosing a dog as a pet to fully understand its predisposition and what training difficulties this will pose for you as an individual and how you can circumvent them.

If you have not taken the time and trouble to build up a relationship, which includes taking into consideraton your "range of influence" then it is inevitable that you will run into difficulties at some point.  As your relationship develops, the training is extended and so is your range of control until you can, control your dog at a distance of 500m or more using voice, whistle and/or handsignals.

If you are worried about your dog running into a road do not let it off the lead until and unless it is in a safer environment and keep up the training.  If you cannot control your do's interaction with other people or animals, again it should be on a long line until you can.

A command is only effective if the dog understands exactly what it means and that requires a great deal of time.

Personally I prefer not to use pain as a method of behaviour management and have never found it to be necessary; suppose I am just lucky!

Hi Darling :)

If you are in the States, i gather electric collars tend to be a little more accpted out there. That's not to say i agree with their use, but very generally speaking i think most dog owners in the UK would tend not to consider them. I have met several dogs with them on, and i can honestly hand on heart say that without exception each dog was not doing what its owner hoped it would do.

Also with this collar, the idea is for the dog to learn to turn off the stimulation by doing the right thing, but if you put yourself in the dog's situation, how easy is that going to be if the dog hasnt been trained if uou see what i mean? :) I suspect dogs would get very stressed trying to work out what to do. Dogs can certianly be trained this way, but my personal view is that it is not fair.

There are plenty of far ranging, busy dogs who have a work instinct who are trained without such collars - why not really get into learning lots about training and behaviour and make it a challenge for yourself to train your dog to do what you want? :) :)

Best wishes
Lindsay

If you are considering an electronic collar can I recommend the ProTeam Remote Trainer

How the system works
The ProTeam Remote Trainer features a unique Owner Feedback Correction system. The training system works not just on the canine half of the training partnership but on the Team. The ProTeam system therefore delivers a corrective signal to the owner, and speeds training considerably.

The ProTeam Remote Trainer can be set to deliver the Owner Feedback Correction Signal via the handset, or via the optional neckbrace. Two electrodes deliver a harmless electric signal to the operator each time the unit is deployed. By encouraging the operator to find an alternative training option, teaching is accelerated 400% (according to expert prediction).

The system also features an Operator Correction Signal Bias. This allows novice owners to set the Owner Feedback Correction Signal at a level higher than that of the canine receiver unit. With 8 separate level settings the Operator Correction Signal Bias can be used to give significant results without needless punishment.


ProTeam Plus+ Remote Trainer 


For stubborn or willful Teams where the trainer is reluctant to find alternative teaching strategies there is the ProTeam Plus+ Remote Trainer. The ProTeam Plus+ Remote Trainer features an extended gain setting with a volume control that goes up to 11!

The unit is only available with the operator neckbrace receiver system.



Sally

Lol! @ Sally! What a terrific idea! The latest techno-whizzy version of hitting yourself on the face with a rolled-up newspaper! It must concentrate the mind wonderfully!
:)

Glad you liked it Jan. ;)  They also do a wonderful Pet Containment System.

The ProTeam Scientists have laboured for many years to come up with a device to safely contain pet dogs.
They came up with a humane pet containment system that requires ABSOLUTELY NO wires, incurs NO running costs, and uses the smallest receiver unit of all currently available on the market.
So comfortable your pet will hardly realise they're wearing the unit. It is GUARANTEED to not malfunction in wet weather although it has been known to fail in high winds (always check the perimeter after gales).

Constructed of the finest wood this fencing system can be built to any length, and can be painted any colour. To safely pass through the system ProTeam Fence Specialists can design, at no extra cost, a "gate". This usually comprises of a hinged fence panel with a handle of your choice.

The ProTeam unit comes with a special labelling pack which, if used correctly, will NOT cause your pet to become phobic of white flags. Each is clearly marked with both a description detailing the actual voltage and for those dogs who can't read (we've all met at least one of those!) an internationally recognised symbol.

:D :D :D

Since being a huge fan of the MTV show Jackass - i would NEVER use any kind of electrocuting device on my dog - or me! They tried the corrective collars on themselvs (round their necks) and one of the guys said "I would never put any animal through that".  There are so many better ways than electrocution!

Just out of interest, how did you introduce the halti to your lab? When I needed to use one for mine I spent about a fortnight putting it on her only for meals and titbits etc and for playing fetch in the garden (her most favourite thing!) before trying to use it on walks. By that time she associated it with fun and wasn't bothered by it, and walked beautifully.
:)

hi if you read my curent thread youll see for 7 whole months ive had nothing but a broken arm off my border collie lol but now no more pulling :)

i basically had a few things which needed sorting to help him learnt to walk properly but one of them was that i was teaching him to generally walk well but not to walk to heel which was what i wanted. So when i recently moved house everyday i took him out (i use a flexi lead but i lock it in position all the time) i had the lead very short next to me and permanantly said heel and treated him like mad for it. i then also did it around the house without the lead just when i went loo or wherever for a few mins.now 4 weeks on and he walks brilliant outside he does use a halti too but the thing to remember with these as well is that you need to leave the lead slack enough so your dog doent feel like your pulling him permanantly cos its too tight - this was another thing i was doing which is why he resented it so much, now he has a slacker lead cos he walks much better and he doesnt hardly care for the halti. Even now 4 weeks on im permanantly saying heel and treating him for it (i treat him with his actaul dry food) and even if i takes forever to carry on doing this i will do cos it doesnt bother me half as much as not enjoying my walks and my arm being pulled out of its socket lol

collette :)

Hi

I tend to think flexis encourage a dog to pull because the dog has to pull to move it out.

I recommend an anti pull harness for A to B, and lots of 5 minute training sessions on a broad flat collar with praise and rewards (and clicker if used) to teach what is wanted :) Going from lampost to lampost can be useful as uou can see your progress!

One tip is to keep changing direction and reward for the dog keepig up with you; also to never ever let the dog off as it is pulling - always wait for at least a 1 second of relaxed lead, then 2, and so on and release as the lead is loose.

Lindsay

collies pull!
2 of mine pull like trains & they all do obbedience!
when im out & about i use head collars,which stops them.
i dont think theres any shame?problem in using them,but they dont teach the dog not to pull,they just dont when wearing them,
ive used haltis ,gentle leaders, but ive just found the best one ever(kind wise) but i cant remeber what its called. its in a figure of 8 which just goes over the head-no buckles/ catches & theres a ring to attach the lead to just below one of the ears. brilliant it is!!
can any one remind me what it is called?

gentle controller

Thankyou!!! yes thats it!!! id recomend the GENTLE CONTROLLER!

I have a bitch who I am teaching not to chase my geese using a clicker !!

She never used to chase them until they kept attacking her, now she gets in first but over the last few weeks (after going to a "motivational day") I have used the clicker (never something I have had much time for previously) and she has not chased them for a few days now.  Time will tell whether it is the clicker or her increased weight causing this cessation in hunting but hopefully it will be permanent.