Poppy went for her first annual booster/check this morning.  She got a aggressive during the ear examination and went for the vet and had a little go at the nurse too.   For the injection they decided to muzzle her, mainly so that she didnt her herself.

What is the best way of handling  this in the future?  Would appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you
Karen

Hi Karen,
  My aunt's dachshund hated the vet, so they always muzzled him before going in.  Got him used to the muzzle at home, for very short periods, then they didn't have a problem getting it on him.  Prior to that, he actually took the vet's fingertip off - this happened when the vet tried to muzzle him.  (my aunt said she never heard such swearing!!)
  Hilda

It would very much depend on how understanding your vet is.  Some will suggest you pop in with the dog anytime you are passing and let them give her a treat or a fuss, others will not be very tolerant and insist that you always muzzle her.  I have always made sure that I have a very understanding vet because most of my dogs have had a pretty dismal start in life.  With Hovis, my ex puppy farm stud dog I was allowed to stay with him for his castrating and be there when he was coming round.  Years ago my daughter took her dog to the vet for the first time on her own after passing her driving test. It was just a pre spay check but the dog was very frightenend and the vet insisted on a muzzle.   The dog panicked and pulled the muzzle off with her front feet and so the vet hit her with it. :(  My daughter was very, very distraught when she got home.  Fortunately we found another very lovely vet who sat on the floor with Lucy and helped her to overcome her fears and the bad experience.  He told me that he never felt the need to muzzle a dog although I did see him once stitching up his own arm but I think that might have been a cat that got him :D  We stayed with him until he retired a couple of years ago.  I really miss him. :(
Sally

Oscar had a booster a couple of weeks ago. We saw a very young new vet who was obviously very nervous. She was faffing around Oscar and not holding him firmly or talking to him - she just squeaked now and then! In the end he growled at her coz she kept fiddling about so he had to be muzzled. I think Oscar was more fed up than anything - and he didn't like being on the table which she insisted on! :rolleyes: I did feel quite sorry for her in the end!

Thanks for the replies - at least I'm not the only one. It is so embarrasing.

My vet used the muzzle, as they were worried about her being hurt.  I have not problems with them, as they are a very profession small animals and equine vets, with an excellent reputation.  The only disadvantage is that we often get seen by different vets.  Poppy is a v. brave dog and nervous of very little.  I'm know expert, but I think she wanted to give the vet a warning and put her in her place.

She is going again in about 6 weeks for her kennel cough booster, which is much easier as a spray up the nose!.

My real concern is how i should handle this aggression (if that is the correct term?), as she also threatened our groomer a few weeks ago when she was doing her ears.  Do I comfort her, shout at her with a firm NO.  ???  Any suggetions would help, I dont want her to become a pest.

Thanks

>>My real concern is how i should handle this aggression (if that is the correct term?), as she also threatened our groomer a few weeks ago when she was doing her ears.  Do I comfort her, shout at her with a firm NO.  ???  Any suggetions would help, I dont want her to become a pest.

Perhaps her ears were hurting, perhaps the goomer was a bit rough, perhaps she didn't know what she was going to do and was worried and perhaps that is why she went for the vet when he went near her ears.  Put yourself in her place.  Have you ever been frightened, uncomfortable, in pain?  (Have you had a baby?)  I wouldn't shout at her.

You should try to get her used to having her ears handled and being happy and relaxed about it. 
Sally

Buy a muzzle to fit your dog and put it on before you take it into the vet, no need to be embarrassed, just better to be safe than sorry, a fear bite does the same damage as an aggressive one ;)

I wouldn't comfort her, as it may give her the wrong message and that you approve of her actions Shouting at her may work but it won't help her actually get used to, or enjoy the vet or grooming visits. I am also wary of telling thedog off without treating the cause, as i have known too many dogs befine for months and then explode because they learnt not to snap, but were basically just repressing themselves. Also, of course, dogs may well behave either better or worse with strangers.

I would desensitise her to anything like this by practising handling  a lot at home. Make it rewarding, don't back off if she protests as such but dont push her too far too fast. YOu are the owner, and may need to "fiddle" with her, but be fair and make sure she is never hurt (such as with nail clipping - makes me squeamish, let alone the dog :D )

Talk to her in a voice she likes, keep it upbeat and happy, and use plenty of praise and food rewards, after some time she should get used to it all to an extent. But preferably you will also need to get other people to handle her and also make it enjoyable.

I employed this method with my own dog when she hadto have eye drops and she will now sit without any restraint for them; also with a BC who used to bite and just had never been handled well at all from a pup.However it isn't easy to explain very well via posts on a forum, and i am afraid i find that frustrating. Body language is so important but i can't demonstrate that, either <g>

Good luck
Lindsay

Thanks again,

Sally, thanks for your advice.  Our dog has the all clear on her health checks and I'm positive there is nothing wrong or painful about her ears.  But, thanks for the comment about reassurance.  Obviously, I do try to reassure her continually by stroking her a using my voice, but after the attempted bite my reactions was to hold her firmly with a firm NO - this is the bit where I felt unsure of the best approach.

Jackie, a muzzle is an option and I can talk to the vet about this. But, she is only 14 months old and I would rather attempt to sort out the problem, although I do take your point.  Visits to the vets in the past have mostly been ok.  Maybe it is an 'ear' issue.  She does let me examine them, with some reluctance.

Linsay,  I managed to same thing with eye drops.  We had a terrible few days trying to put them in, but in the end she would come when called and sit waiting for her dose to be administered!.  The strange thing is that she loves going to the vets and groomers - cant wait to get in - tail wagging and all.  But, I guess what I need to do is reassure, sooth and reward her (and warn others of her potential behaviour), but if she snaps be firm without frightening her.

Hopefully, the next visit for Kennel Cough will be less traumatic and i can reward her afterwards.  Maybe I am panicking too easily, I just dont want her to bite.
Many thanks
Karen.

Karen, I know what it is you are feeling and saying, BUT if you fit a muzzle you will relax and be better able to deal with the dogs anxiety. After a couple of trouble free visits to the vet you should be able to remove the muzzle except if you expect the examination to be painful.

I think you may find that she may object more strongly to the spray up the nose than the injection! :)  I would not be embarassed about my dog not liking the vet, but I would always put a muzzle on a dog that was iffy about such encounters as I believe it is a courtesy to the vet.  That is why I believe it is sensible to a) always have a muzzle in case of emergency and b) to desensitise the dog to the muzzle so that it gets used to wearing it before a traumatic experience.  All my dogs have been trained to accept a muzzle as you never know when it may come in useful.  Only one has had to wear it at the vet. :D

Shouting only increases the anxiety in the dog and could make her more not less liable to bite.

HTH

I can really see the logic in training them to accept a muzzle - this is something I am definitely going to persue.   It is the first time she has ever gone for the vet, so I guess it has taken me by surprise.

She has had the spray before and was fine, but I guess she might now be more sensitive to going to the vets.

Looks like reassurance and a muzzle is the way to go

Thanks for all the advice.
Karen.

Hi Karen, my mini is the same age as yours.  He has recently become very sensitive about his ears which must stem from plucking.  He even got nasty with me when I tried to pluck the hair which is so unusual.  So I have had to go back to the beginning with the ears.  On a daily basis I hold his ear and just touch the inside with my fingers to get him confident again about being touched around the ear without any pain.  He now lets me touch his ears without too much problem.  I also remove the ear hair whilst feeding a treat at the same time so that he associates the grooming with something really nice.  It seems to be working for me but he definitely developed a real sensitivity around the ears.

Louise

Thanks for the info regarding Rufus.  I think we are hitting similar problems by the sound of it!  I am going to do as you suggest as we too are having problems with the plucking, so really need to get back to basics.

Karen.

in my experience they hate the kennel cough vaccine and sometimes have to be almost held in a head lock to keep them still so i would'nt expect it to be better, you will have to make sure the muzzle is very tight fitting as they can slip off in the scuffle!! 

If your vet is very quick and practiced at squirting the kennel cough vaccine then it really helps to cover the dogs eyes just before.  He doesn't see the vet approaching his face and by the time he's realised what's happened it's all over :)
Lara x

I work at a vets office and can tell you at least 65% of the dogs that come in growl when their ears are looked at.  This is due to the fact that the ears are not something we usually mess with when we are petting our dogs.  Muzzles and sedation are a quick fix but at your dogs age you should be able to get her over her ear sensativity and aviod alot of hassle and cost on the future.  First never yell it only makes your dog think you are being aggressive too. Speak in a firm DEEP voice and say NO.  Never tell them " It's ok be a good dog" That sends the message " OK GOOD DOG" and they think the behavior is acceptable.  Mess with your dogs ears as much as possable clean them at home. and look in them and put your fingers in them a little bit .  Thgis will get them used to it so when the Dr. puts in the otiscope it wont bother them.  For Pulling the hair form there ears there is a powder that sooths the ears and lets the hair pull out useing just your fingers and they show no pain or irratation at all.  Much easier and genler that forcepts.  Hope this helps

Hm interesting I have never had any problems with my dogs at the vets even the resuce who was terrified of men was always ok

I believe it's because I treat my dogs as dogs & place myself  as pack leader from day one of the dog coming to me. I have never resorted to physical correction

I must disagree with the firm No as the dog will not understand the word NO anyomre than the words Good Boy/girl. They are able to associate a sound & body langauge with expected behaviour, I have demonstrated this on a regular basis by getting my dogs to get excited by being yold off but using a happy tome of voice

Dealing with ears must be consistant & regular I groom a dog that bites its owner when she tries to clean or even just groom it's ears, why because I am 1.not the owner & did not react at all to the first time it grumped(not growled)when I touched it's ears. 2. I use T touch massage to relax the dog before grooming. 3.I always reward immediately afterwards for good behaviour. It only took one session for him to realize that nothing nasty was going to happen & he relaxed & did not react he got his reward

I have never heard an alpha dog say NO in any tone of voice to another dog, in fact correction by an alpha dog is usually done silently. My Alpha bitch only has to look in the direction of any of the others in a meaningful way, to stop misbehaviour(she doesn't have to do it very often)

Hi Moonmaiden, I could not agree more. Especially with "the look" :D  (Actually I am not bad at it myself) :D :D

Thank you all again.  Some useful advice.  My dog certainly understands me when I say NO, but as suggested this could well be a combination of TONE and BODY LANGUAGE.  Interestingly, I have had to try to tell her to 'be quiet' before whilst on an important telephone conversation and i have found that if I walk up to her and give her a NO type of stare she will quieten down!

I believe I did try to sooth her at the vets and when she went for the vet I gave a firm NO, which would have incorporated the usual tone and body language. 

Taking a combination of this advice, it seems to me that I need to get her more familiar with having her ears touched and played with nearer to the inside (as she really doesnt mind the soft velvety bits being stroked).  We do need to also get to grips with removing more of the hair.  I will also speak to the vet regarding the necessity of a muzzle, and see what they think.

She has had kennel cought twice before and is fine with it - obviously, I will take extra care as she may be affected by her last visit.

It does sound like this isnt an uncommon problem with ears, but I will be determined to get it sorted out.

Karen.

Karen.

my dog most defernantly understands the word no along with  leave and off i don't agree with the pack theory as they have been domesticated and have to learn our ways i mean we don't commicate like our ape ancestors do we?

Actually Sid we are NOT descended from the Great Apes but from a common ancestor(as DNA proves) You really should look up the evolution of man rather than come out with such an incorrect statement

If a dog goes feral they quickly revert to the the wild dog behaviour as a missing sheltie had started to do they have to go back to basics with her

Tha domseticated dog does have a pack mentality & even if you only have one dog you need to be the pack leader

As for knowing words sorry but you are wrong you can say the same word in different tones & with different body language & you will get a different reaction from your dog.

I'm not going to argue with you from your previous posts it is clear that you joined yesterday & are already THE expert

Perhaps you would like to introduce yourself & your dog(s)& your qualifications & experience in dogs

Of course you will post this on the right forum

oh dear do i detect sour grapes because of my post yesterday? and i dare to disagree with you again! you really need to be able to accept new people you know don't worry i am not a threat to you!   i don't need qualifications to know that my dogs understand commands and even family names , ball , fetch , sit , stay , come ,shall i go on so why would'nt they understand NO? of course a dog would revert to ferral behaviour if it needed to  survive does'nt mean it could'nt be domesticated, in my opinion they do not think of us as a pack of dogs thats my opinion as like you i own and have owned dogs all my life i might not have any certificates but i do have well behaved dogs how have been taught through kindness and by spending lots of time with the family!

What dogs have you got, Sid? You never did get round to sharing that info. We're a happy band on here, and like to understand each other's experiences.
:)

i have a bulldog and 2 boxers jeangeanie

Oh I like them! How old are they? Dogs or bitches?

buldog is male and 1 year old, boxers are both bitches 1 is 5 years and the other is 8 years

I think my dogs understand 'no' if used in the context - "no, it isn't dinnertime yet" or "no it's still raining, we'll go out in a minute" but I have never felt the need to use it as a word of instruction or command.  All of the words that they understand as an instruction they have learnt by associating them with what they were doing at the time.  I think if you use 'NO' it will interupt what they are doing but it still doesn't tell them what you want them to do. IMO

Sally

I have a very bad habit of tutting and this was picked up by my 2 dogs when I would get frustrated when training them.  Now, if I'm watching telly or reading and tutt, they both stop what their doing and look at me as if to say 'what have we done wrong?'  I'm trying to stop this annoying habit but it is quite funny to see.

I agree with others about "the look" being very useful :D

Lindsay

I have a look over the top of my glasses that stops my dogs in their tracks no need for words & in a ay it's the same look my alpha bitch gives the dogs when she disapproves of their behaviour

Just like in the wild the non human alpha is a bitch & we have no serious arguments amousgt the males

She will let the puppies & juveniles take liberties not allowed the adults & even though she is very anti social large dogs outside(due to her previous owners)she is incredible with puppies & the rest of my dogs.Even our late cats(they died of old age 19 1/2 & 18)would sleep curled up between her paws

Maudlily,

Like you, I also have a habit of tutting and it works with my Briard everytime, I do it when I get impatient or something displeases me and he just latched onto it :-) also the look, or should I say glare seems to work, when he can see me through his hair :D  wish it worked on my husband though :D