I am about to take my bitch to a chosen stud.  The breeder has requested £100.00 for the mating and then £50.00 for each puppy that survives 7 days.  As I had not heard of this way of feeing I wondered what you thought.

You don't pay for the pups you pay for the service.

It's an unusual system, but not unheard of.
:)

What breed do you have? In the breeds that can produce in the teens of live pups, this could be an expensive stud!

Not unusual in my breed - but it's £60 for the mating & £60 per pup (which sell for £400)

In my breed we just pay for the service at time of mating, but when I took a friend's afghan to be mated some years ago, the arrangement was half of the agreed fee at time of mating and the other half when the pups were born.  The thinking was that the stud dog owner had been paid "something" for their time and trouble if the bitch owner got the date wrong and there were no puppies as often happens!!
But the stud dog owner states the terms to use the dog, and the bitch owner has the choice of accepting them or not!

It is up to the stud owner to state their terms and up to you to accept or refuse. so if you want to use this particular stud you will have to accept the terms set by the stud owner

One of my friends is taking her Rottie bitch to a stud next month- they want £200 on the day and £400 when/if pups are born:)  Surely paying an amount per pup is strange since it's your bitch that has produced the eggs therefore the amount of pups is down to her not him

Stacey x x x

This thread just goes to prove something which has often come up in discussion here - the Stud fee requested is up to the dogs owner, you have to check out all the details, and then you can decide to accdept and use the dog, or look elsewhere.  There are lots of "usual" methods of charging, and quite a few different but not unheard of ones too.  People can ask what they want for their own property (in this case their dogs services) it is up to the porspective buyer (bitch owner) to agree or walk away.
bye
Gwen

In my breed it's the price of a pup.

Usually in Staffords it's a price for the service itself, but other agreements are not unheard of it's up as everyne has said to the bitch owner to agree or disagree. But I WOULD suggest getting a signed agreement to the facts, whatever they are - and that both parties ie bitch and dog owner agree. Even if you have to make one yourself.

Karen

As I said earlier it is the stud owner who sets the price, but to me it seems a good idea and fair, you pay a reasonable amount for the service to cover the handlers immediate time and assistance and then by results. I know the bitch produces the eggs but should she have say only 2 pups the service will be less than it may have been if you had paid a once and for all lump sum up front, it also means the sires owner is interested and no doubt supportive right through the whelping process.

In mine it used to be the price of a pup but puppy prices have risen quite a lot with stud fees lagging. So now it's about half the price of a pup. Despite the dispatity stud owners will still sometimes opt for 2nd choice bitch puppy or whatever. I've not asked for a puppy rather than a fee yet but someday I'm probably going to want to, and I'll feel like a proper rip off artist. :(

Same here, regardless if it is a champion, proven, or first time stud.  As we are a numerically small breed and breeders/stud dog owners know each other well it is often the case that the stud dog owner will take payment when the litter is born and they are asked to sign the registration form.

I have always gone to the stud expecting to pay at the time of mating.

To add another angle to this sadly I know of a ""Establishment"" that does this with various breeds the main reason is cash oriantated if you ask some one for a stud fee of £800 you have to be offering something good!! where as a couple fo hundred up front ant the rest when the pups come can sound reasonable till your bitch has 8 puppies!
I have always charged either pick of the litter or slightly less than the price of a puppy paid at mating.
This type of arrangement could work fine as long as it is reputable breeders involved and you get things laid down in writting, but prepared to get a large bill! if she has a large litter. :)

Can I just say if you are not happy their may be a lot of quality health tested stud dogs out there so have a look around.
Nutkin

the stud fee arrangement  with in breeds are different but in fcr some are are doing a service charge  then so much for each puppy,which i will start doing its a fair way of doing it,

i use to do the old way pay up front the stud fee.but if there on puppies then the bitch could come back again,for a free stud work at any time,but what happens if the dog stud die in that time or he sperm count gos down.the bitch owner lost out.

with the service charge you are paying for the stud owners time which is not refunded,then so much for each live puppy.
this way the bitch owner will only pay for the stud service,but if no puppies then she not going to miss out on lost £500 or more, then they will not have to go back to the same dog to try again.

I'm a bit confused  when you say you have to pay money for each pup that is born,what is the reason behind this? I've never heard of this before.Here in Australia the females owner either pays the stud what 1 puppy is worth or gives them the pick of the litter after the pups are born.
Can someone please explain why the extra $$$ for each pup.Sorry to sound dim,but it's really intriguing to me how other countries work and why :)

christine xx

i just bought over a swedish fcr champion.so if he gos to stud there be a service charge of a £100, then each puppy live after 3days £ 75.

so if there no puppies the bitch owner  as paid out only £100,for the service and and time of the stud owner.

then if there 5 puppies  AT £75 = £375 +£100 SERVICE  = £475.
PLUS IN MY CASE THE DOG IS GOING BACK TO SWEDEN IN JULY SO THE BITCH OWNER CANNOT USE HIM AGAIN,SO IN LOSING A STUD FEE OF £500 SHE ONLY LOST £100 IF THERES NO PUPPIES.

IF THERE PUPPIES THEN THE STUD OWNER MAY HAVE A PUPPY BACK AND NO FEE FOR THE PUPPIES.

Hi Terri

That system works both ways for the owner of the stud dog, as it's the bitch who determines how many eggs are fertilised (unless you have a dog of very low sperm count, in which case you shouldn't be standing him at stud).   Also, live pups also depends on the husbandry skills of the bitch owner coupled with a spattering of good luck. 

  Charging for live pups only could lead to the attitude 'Oh well, one's died - that's £xxx less I've got to pay!!'

In flatcoats, we often get litters of at least 10 pups -That, if you pay by the pup,  by my reckoning is £75 x 10 if they live, which on top of the £100 handling fee is £850 for the stud dog - nice little earner!!!!!

Most of us charge £50 handling fee - non returnable, and very reasonable considering the lengths we go to with some bitches.    We then charge a flat rate of £400 regardless of litter size.

In my book, one conception constitutes a pregnancy, and with a proven dog, he's done his bit.   Having said that, I've not charged a bean to someone who only had one pup (trouble with fat bitch) - you use your discretion.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

So the breeder gets £3150.00- nice little earner!!! (assuming pups are sold for £400 x10 - £850)

Doesn't quite work as simply as that, Anwen.    There are quite a few sites where the finances of rearing a litter correctly are spelt out blow-by-blow.   Whe I've got a moment I'll look them up for you.    Most of us are lucky to break even, even if we have a large litter.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

With a large litter I have paid out around £1800 in expenses, and that doesn't include my time or heating etc, or the cost of someone to look after things if I have to be away for the day.

HI jo

the reason i am stating the price on my post was for the swedish dog which cost me alot to bring over to use on wispa.first,if any other breeders want to use him that the rate for him,i didnt diside on this price it was the owner of the the dog in sweden,

i donot care if no one elis use him.i done the hard work and reach on him over the last two years and i hope it pays off with wispa,

i will not earner any money out of him.if he goes to stud the stud fee gos back to the owner in sweden.plus the price for puppies out in sweden. are £750.00.

where last year the avage cost here was £550.00 but then i heard that some breeders in the breed where saleing at £650 to£700,which i think is reasonable for the breed where poddles and westies are around £500 to £600.

but if the breeder has 10 puppies at £550 =£5,500.so again a nice little earner.

but when i breed  i breed to keep one of the puppies.

plus i go out to work to support my 6 dogs my 6 dogs donot support me,the avage cost for 6 dog for the years is £3000.00 with food insuraces,that with out shows training classes etc.
so stud work and breeding is not a nice little earner in my case.it a lot of hard work and love and care for all.

Hi  Im in shar-pei any mating i have had outside my kennel has been on money up front and a fee when the pups are born ,which seems fair mind you stud fees can be any amount up to £800-£900 .I know its a lot,the owner of the stud dog only signs the registration papers for puppies when they receive the fee.So in a way its down to mutual trust as some people would charge a lot for a pei puppy even without  reg papers
      Regards Wes

Anwen - found one of the sites that does a financial breakdown of breeding costs, and compares costs to dedicated breeders with those of back-yard and other breeders.   Quite an eye-opener for some, I guess, but quite true by an large - I would say costs have gone up since this was written.

http://www.dogstuff.info/breeder.html

Basically, to put a litter in the nest costs around £7,000 if you do the job properly and build up your bitches' reputation  with show , trial or test successes.

I reckon that the old successful hands in the game are not always the most expensive in terms of puppy price etc - they are the ones to whom suitable homing is more important than money, as they know they're never going to make a fortune out of their dogs.

I suppose we're lucky in that our dogs 'wages' in the shooting season just about pay for their food for the rest of the year; otherwise our own costs are about the same as indicated in the chart.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

£7,000??? are you sure about that??  Seems an awful lot to me.  I dont consider any of my litters have ever cost me £7,000.  Mind you I have never worked out the cost of having a litter would probably get a big shock if I did.

Molly - be prepared for big shock time!  It's not just paying for bags of food!

Have a look at the charts and see which corners you might cut!!! Don't think you'd want to cut very many!
:-)

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Good lord!!!!! No I wouldnt cut any corners.  Do you know we would all probably be millionaires if we didnt breed dogs..............thinking.........would rather breed dogs!!!!

You don't need to spell anything out for me about the cost of litters. I've been breeding for 25 yrs (admittedly somewhat less than a litter a year) & I've owned stud dogs too, so I can see both sides of the question. I think I've done well if I don't actually lose money on a litter & in my breed there are very few out to make money (they wouldn't be in the breed if they were.) In my latest litter I paid £240 stud fee for 3 pups. If I sold all 3, I would get £1200 (but, of course I'm keeping one - as you do). If I'd had say, 6 pups, the stud dog owner would have got £420, which would have been nice for her, I would have got £2400 which I would have been thrilled to bits with. It's not that I've made that money, it's just that I've got back a lot of what I've paid out in bits & pieces all in one go.
You pays yer money ......... As long as everyone knows the terms at the beginning it doesn't matter what the arrangement is.

Didn't mean to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, as it were, Anwen! :-)

Quite agree that this all really underlines the fact that stud agreements should be spelt out in clear language that both parties can understand the implications of.

Molly - when we gave up the horses, which we dearly loved, we thought we would be instant millionaires (not!!) with all the money saved.   Maybe if we gave up the dogs.......we might as well start claiming for our own funeral expenses now !!

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Grandmother???????????????
How dare you insult me???????????????
I'll show you what big teeth I've got next time!. :D :D :D

OK Little Red Riding Hood then!!

I'm a Granny and proud of it - and golly - have I got teeth!!!

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

  when ive had males ive  never ever charged up front, only when theres been pups -----as for stud fees in pei. ive not paid more than £600. and that  was for top stud dogs that where capable and proven  to produce consistantly ,i also wasnt asked for a fee unless i had pups, i know the fee is for a service but i couldnt take £600-£650 off someone that didnt get a litter to show for it, whoevers  fault it was,