please can someone tell me what are the signs of a puppy farmer ?
amount of litters they have at any given time etc

any info greatly appreciated

ginastarr

Unfortunately it's not as easy as that. Having many different breeds is a give-away. If they have several litters a year, do they show their stock (to make sure they're not getting too far from the standard)? Are their puppies KC registered (no guarantee of quality, but it's better than unregistered/other registry)?

thanks jeangenie

Also, do they carry out relevant health tests with the certificates/results availabel for you to see. Are they breeding from quality dogs and bitches with proven and provable records in whatever discipline is relevant (showing, obedience, the field, etc), is the mother available for viewing with the pups, are the pups clean, parasite free  (worming and flea treatments records  available) , are the pups being reared on a quality diet, are full puppy care details and dietary info. given with the pup.  Are you asked plentiful and relevant questions when seeking to buy a puppy, are the surroundings clean and comfortable for the dogs, be it a privatge home or a kennel.  Are the pups happy and cofident with strangers, a sign they have been well socialised.  Is the breeder keeping one or more of the litter for themselves, do you have full contact details for the breeder (not meeting at a friends house, only mobile phone contact number) .

Perhaps not all questions are 100%rleevant to every situation, but if you are getting negative answers to several of the above (I include Jenagenies guidelines in this) then it is probably a puppy farmer.
bye
Gwen

Can you see Mum with the pups ( seeing dad at the same time isn't always a recommendation).
For preference, I would prefer to see puppies (in most breeds) reared in the house. I would also expect the breeder to be able talk knowledgably about the breed.

The puppy farmers that I am aware of breed from their bitches from 1yr old and then every season there after, they have 6 registered litters and un-registered in between (licensed breeders can only register 1 litter in a 12month period) Then once they are of 'no use' anymore they are taken to a vet and destroyed. During the life time of these bitches they are couped up in kennels and never walked.

that is so sad Tcardlaidh, but the thing is, how can the buying public know this?  The puppy farmers dont usually advertise these horrific practices to the general public.  Good to have some first hand knowledge of the horrors to post, but would this person admit to any of this if questioned by a prospective purchaser?  How do the kennels look, how about some timps on how to recognise these conditons?  Anything to keep people away from this sort of place
bye
Gwen

What you describe is the very worst scenario.  But I would still try to steer people away from the "one off" litter who are not health tested, however well meaning the owners are, because even if the puppy producer hasn't charged much money, the new owners have a possible dog lifetime of upset, worry and Vet's bills because of ignorance!!  I have spent many, many hours trying to support families who have bought dogs with problems that were obvious when I first saw their new "treasures" at 16 weeks old!
Nice families deserve nice pets!

Well said Val, ignorance can be as harful as deliberate wrong doing.
bye
Gwen

Too right, Gwen. Most animal suffering is caused through genuine ignorance (not stupidity - they're totally different) rather than deliberate cruelty.

Personally if I were looking for a particular breed I would steer well clear of Trade adverts in the Free papers, especially those advertising a multitude of breeds. Joe Public often assume that if a 'kennel' is licensed it is reputable and sadly this is not the case.  Also as has been said I would avoid all 'one offs'  as these people do 'tend' to be the ones with an excuse for not doing the relevant tests. I would research the breed and see which lines I like and contact the Breeders direct and the Breed Clubs as most have a 'puppy list'  But I would also be patient cos a good puppy is worth waiting for.

thanks everyone

ginastarr

Hi Gina

Please take a look at
http://hope-uk.tripod.com/educate_yourself_do_not_be_foole.htm
it explains how to (hopefully) purchase a puppy correctly.

Thanks
Lesley

I think Val hit it on the nail about the ones who easily sneak through the trap.

These are the ones who are at times more dangerous than the big ones because it is harder to educate people in what they should be looking for and to avoid them.

I know of a few " We have a small happy little family of bitches" , "breed only a couple times a year" ,  but none healthy checked, mistakes in the pedigrees, even false pedigrees.  They do nothing for the breed but distroy it and cause long term suffering to animals and the purchasers.

I had a chap call me at the weekend looking for a puppy, his 3 year old bitch fell over and died.  I asked if he has spoke to the breeder and discussed the cause , he said yes her reply was " that it common in westies" .  No appoligy, no offer of another dog. Basically hung up.   The chap has since been in contact with a owner of dog from the same litter who has just under went £1500 of heart surgery without insurance.  

They have no chance of getting anything back , and they don't want anymore puppies for the breeder either. 

So sad.

Pam

Hi Ginastarr,

I can only go on my experience 15 years ago. I badly wanted a GSD, so looked at all of the adverts, I couldnt find one in the area that i lived, so stupidly :rolleyes: found one in the Exchange & Mart. It was a breeder in Surrey called John Lowe. I told him that I preferably wanted a long haired bitch, and he said yes come along and see me i have long haired bitches. ( i ended up with a short haired one)  I turned up on a saturday afternoon and he just brought one out to me, i asked to see the mother but he told me that she was in being operated on as she had an infection.He dumped the pup on my lap and said that will be £250.00 please. When i questioned him he said, if you dont want the pup there will be plenty that do, either take it or leave it!!! I stupidly took her as by then i had got into a situation i couldnt get out of and just knew that if i had left her i would have always wondered To cut a long story short she was totally mad, you could never have her indoors because of her unpredictability and toilet problems, she attacked every thing that moved and had such awful health problems that nothing could cure it, final straw was when the vet said you cannot carry on with this dog, and you cant rehome(we never considered it) the only option is euthansia, with a heavy heart we eventually took this option, and to this day i am still not over it :-( He was recently featured on a programme called inside out on the BBC and thankfully they have bannned him from breeding and selling puppys, if i had my way, i would do something very nasty (wont mention it on this site) to him, he doesnt deserve to live .

thanks to everyone that replyed to my post
hopefully i will get the right pup from the right breeder (fingers crossed)
well i think i have made the right choice i am going to visit well in advance before i deciede on this  breeder to see the kennel and the dogs dad will know straight away anyway

does anyone have an email for the secretary of parson russell terrier club of england

thanks again

will let you all know how i get on

georgina

I hate puppies kept in bad conditions outside. I know of a person that breeds their pups in filth, and that they are in poor, poor condition. Most people take the  pups as they feel sorry for them. Trouble is 6 months later he has another litter just the same.  I would call him a puppy farmer as he does not health test and keeps his poor dogs in bad conditions. Also he takes back pups that people are sick of and sells them again. One lady contacted her vet as she was so upset that her dog had whip marks over its body. It was so scarred at 12 weeks of age. The dog did a poo but it was a mat of worms and the dog could hardly stand up. The vet called the r.s.p.c.a, But
hey guess what he is advertising again another litter. The free adds like selling his puppies. So he still gets away with it.   He sells his pups in the papers and advertises that they are good pups with excellent pedigrees, kc reg, and insured, wormed etc. People think he is just a good breeder until they get to his doorstep. But then out of pity they buy what he has thinking it stops it.
Nutkin