I am interested in peoples reasons for breeding a litter of pups; I AM NOT AFTER AN ARGUEMENT JUST YOUR REASONS PLEASE.
I have a stafford bitch who is well bred and  her looks and temprament are both excellent and I have considered the idea of breeding her and BELIEVE she would have a "good/excellent litter" but my reason against are;
1. Risk  loosing my bitch
2. Take back pups if something happened
3. Find homes that were acceptable to me in the first place
4. Sell the pups. And not be temped to keep them all (this one is tounge in cheek)
5. Have the time for a litter
These are some of the thing I have considered and have decided yet again against having a litter of my own. But people and lots of people you wouldn't expect have said to me "Just think of the money if she had 6 pups £500each, very nice easy money."

Not for me and maybe I am lucky in having a choice about breeding but if more people considered it my way I think there would be less pups in rescue.
My reasons for were, and these are just a few;
1.I would keep a pup (but her breeding is not unique and I could get a pup with very similar breeding.)
2. I would like a litter of pups (But do I want the work commitment)
3. My bitch is of a good pedigree (BUT NOT the only one)
Karen

I could spout all sorts of guff about improving the breed and it wouldn't be wholly untrue but it wouldn't be the whole truth, or even most of it. I enjoy having a litter and I love watching the pups develop and interact with mum and each other. I even enjoy the work, though I doubt that I would if I bred more often. I love seeing reflections of long gone ancestors in the look and behaviour of a pup. It means that a kittle bit of the lost ones are still here. I enjoy spending hours with prospective owners and many of the puppy people have become good friends so following up pups throughout thir lives is a pleasure not a chore. I don't enjoy the worry, and I hate seeing sad, wistful little faces peering out of cars windows as the pup is driven off to it's new home but everything else makes those worth accepting.

We are thinking of breeding because we would like another puppy.  We have looked around at other litters and nothing is saying wow, or it has a bad temperment.  We have a nice bitch, with a good background and we think she will make an excellent mum.  We have also put aside since our last litter a few thousnad pounds so we have enough hopefully for anything that goes wrong.

reasons we are waiting till bitches next season now rather then having her in whelp soon was the stud dog has not been DNA tested for VW and we are not sure the timing is right as the oldest dog has no got old mans problems so don't really want to give him the stress of puppies handing off his ears.

My next litter will probably be from my 1st generation bitch.  the reasons for this litter is to increase the number of 2nd generation dogs in our register...as the "powers-that-be" seem to think that 200 or so dogs is a sufficient gene pool for a new breed to this KC.  I disagree...but that's another story.  I will also use her mating to try out a newly registered dog, to see what he throws.  If he throws true to his conformation he'll be perfect for my puppy bitch, when her time comes.  I know mother and daughter won't be totally genetically identical...but its close enough to give me good idea of how the younger bitch's pups might turn out.
When my current puppy bitch is old enough to have a litter I will breed from her to produce a good 3rd generation bitch for myself (fingers crossed).
Because we are a new breed to the IKC we are still largely in the Interim phase, and I need a 4th generation pup to become my first pedigree.
I could of course buy-in a pedigree from a country where the breed has been established longer...but i would like the satisfaction of having carefully bred my own...right the way through from 1st generation.

I have just had my first litter and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far.  She was easy to whelp and was fotunate in that respect.  However as most of you know my two are rescued and my bitch is due to be spayed once the pups have gone.  I don't think I could cope with all the emotions that go along with breeding, god only knows what I'll be like when it comes to letting them go to their new homes.

I suppose my reasons would be a combination of Jas and Moneygaljrts and lots of other folks too. 

I am not one of those who subscribe to the idea that you should only breed a litter to keep a pup, as if your space is limnited this is not sufficeiet to develop a line and have breeding to fall back on/change direction etc.  n

Also if you only have one litter per generation from your bitches then you cannot truly know whqat they are passing on, whereas using different sires on a couple of litter will be much more educational.

I will be a bit heretical here.  I would even have nothing against commercial breeding , IF AND IT IS A BIG IF THE BREEDERS BRED TO THE SAME STANDARDS AS GENUINE BREED LOVERS, AND TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR EVERY PUP THEY BRED.  Of course it is impossible to make money and do all the above, so in essense I am against purely commercial breeding :D

As for Puppy Farmers, and mate my bitch with dog around the corner people, they just give the rest of us a bad name.

Hi Brainless, I completely agree with your reasoning about not keeping a pup from every litter and just wish I could do it. But I found out by bitter experience and getting myself over-dogged so that I had to miss out a generation early on, that I'm incapable of selling a whole litter. :(

I agree with you about puppy farming too. I've only seen two true commercial setups. One was David Hancock's lurcher breeding establishment. I couldn't say that the pups were being reared in an ideal way but Hancock didn't claim they were and admitted that they didn't get as much socialisation as they might. But the pups were in big enclosures that were surprisingly clean given the numbers and the bitches looked to be in good condition. The pups were wormed and vaccinated, and while the food was cheap, the pups and bitches were obviously getting plently and doing well on it. The record keeping was good too. People who buy pups are on their own one they leave, but no fictitious promises are given. It wasn't perfect way to breed and rear pups by a long way, but it doesn't pretend to be anything other than a commerical enterprise and as such it is run pretty well. I won't name the person who runs the other place I've seen, and I won't write anything about it because I couldn't without using bad language. :(

Sorry - but just look at the huge number of lurchers in rescue!  A lurcher is anything crossed with a sighthound (usually a greyhound).

I'm only too aware of the rescue problem Bengidog :( I don't see anything wrong with breeding lurchers if it's done the same way as as good KC reg. breeder does it, with follow up etc. but I don't agree with mass producing lurchers when they are too often seen as 'disposable'. All I was saying is that for a commercial breeder (of any breed or cross) Handcock doesn't do a bad job of rearing the pups. If he says you are getting a grey x [beardie x grey] that's what you get, unlike too many lurcher breeders. His place was excellent beside the other commercial breeding place I've seen.

hi my reasons are-
1. I enjoy the excitment or stress ;)
2. its lovely to see pups you have bred out working
3. to add a puppy to our already over crowded household

before i breed a litter i make sure of the following
1. I can find a good compatible stud
2. i having good  (vetted)homes waiting for the puppies
3. i am completley free to spend 99% of my time looking after the bitch and litter
4. i have space and the time to take back a unwanted puppy

sometimes when im rushed off my feet and im spending all day cleaning up puppy poo i think I must be mad!!!

Thank you all VERY much; the more I think about it the more I KNOW in my heart I will not breed a litter.....Oh I could reel off pedigrees and the type of dogs behind those pedigrees.

I agree with MoneygalJRT's in fact I would be  convinced if I was in a breed that was numerically small and had a bitch of the quality that I do. But Staffords are not a NUMERICALLY small breed although the ones I go WOW over are few and far between that is just me. But those pups are out there and all you have to do is look.

There is more to this breeding a litter than you first think isn't there even after you have a good bitch with a good solid/excellent pedigree and a bit of knowledge.

Karen  

Hi Karen, out of interest why did the replies help you decide that you won't breed? All of us seemed to be saying we enjoyed doing it enough to make up for the worry and you enjoy mulling over pedigrees - which is part of the enjoyment of breeding I forgot to mention. :)

My breed is one of the numerically smaller ones, but it isn't tiny, so I could find excellent pups to buy in but I think I could make a case to 'justify' breeding along a parallel line to Moneygal, who is trying to produce excellent foundation stock. My line is based on two well known lines neither of which is breeding now. One hasn't bred for decades and I was very lucky to get my foundation bitch from their last really good litter. The other stopped breeding more recently, but few are still line breeding on that stock. Both lines had a lot that was worth preserving, from particularly good heads and expressions to better than average longevity. I've always made an effort to avoid the popular sire syndrome by strictly limiting the use of my own boys and by using less well known studs. I've gone to look at a good many 'pet' boys because I liked the pedigree, and have twice ended up using studs that never had nor would see a show ring (though I can honestly say they'd have done very well if the owners had been interested). That means I don't have a couple of males who were very heavily used to the point where they appear in most pedigrees behind me. Like many very popular studs they have altered the breed somewhat - not for the worse, but some people now want to go breed back to an 'older' type because they think some features the popular studs passed on strongly are at risk of becoming exaggerated. That would be impossible if there hadn't been a some people breeding in various directions that are a little bit away from the 'mainstream'. 

Having read all that over it doesn't make a lot of sense :) but what I'm trying to say is IMHO even if you are not in a numerically tiny breed you can still try to contribute something that is hopefully of value by thoughtful breeding.

The reason the replies have pretty much convinced me other than my own thinking behind it is you and the others have a "an ideal dog in your minds that you are aiming for" and to be totally HONEST I do not think my ideal is that different from at a few others who breed Staffs; and I am not convinced my bitch although a little more than OKAY to many; would contribute anything different to the gene pool.

Okay she MIGHT but she has litter sisters who are doing well in the ring and will more than likely be bred from.
But there are lots and lots of Staffords out there and some excellent litters avalable for choosing the best you can which is what I did with Sal.
I choose the lines I liked and then looked for a breeder who was breeding for the reasons I think are the BEST reasons for breeding as he has an "ideal" in his mind and has been breeding EXCELLENT solid/consistent litters who all look very much alike. Although he has not bred often he has three homebred champions out of three litters in 6 years. So not numerically great  but the quality is there. Although I am not ruling it out in the future, as I am a lover of the breed and willing to do my best to raise it's public-rating, I am not sure I am ready to add to the gene pool. Staffords are in my opinion the best dogs in the world and nothing is better than to have a Stafford in a family, I am not sure I am the person who should put them there. My bitch is 15 months old and I do not know how she will finally look either YET when fully grown. But I know her faults and could list 4 things I would want to be better about her although they are in the standard. And have a very good idea of what "type" of stud dog I would use.
  I am a LOVER of Staffs rather than a breeder. I could give advice to anyone looking for a stud dog and wanting a litter and spot faults and strengths in dogs but that is not enough is it to breed a litter is it?       
I would not stay with the mainstream "popular stud" either and would more than likely search out a good dog weather he be a pet or a show dog it is what a dog can produce that makes him good not what he "looks like"      Karen

Isn't that just like Life, Karen! :rolleyes: Here you are - the sort of honest, thoughtful person who really loves their chosen breed as a whole, not just their own particular individual, and would make a responsible breeder, deciding not to do it, when on the other hand the people who can't see further than £££ or "It'd be nice to have some puppies" and shouldn't be allowed near a fertile animal, are churning them out willy-nilly!

Thanks JG,
I would like to think of myself as such but others may not; however I believe I can do just as much to futher my breed other than breeding a champion maybe even more.
I have now had two two Stafford including Sal (now) who are PAT dogs and I think this does more for breed PR, because it shows the "nice" side of the breed. If it had been about before I would have had the other two doing PAT as well. Some people raise eyebrows Staffords and PAT dogs!
I take Sal everywhere I can and she gets very positive reactions from people. Some of whom have a "pre-conceived" ideas about Staffs or dogs in general. She does agility albeit more enthusasticly then good :) and I do occasional home checks for SBT rescue and a bit of driving/collecting for them when required. I think you need to do an apprentiship before you embark on "breeding" a litter; how can you know what is "good" when you can't recognise bad? I LOVE Stafford and think there NO better breed, but there is more to loving Staffords than breeding more I think.
Karen  

Hi Karen, I don't think I did have an ideal dog in my mind when I started. Or if I had it wasn't the ideal that I have now. I know I was kennel blind with love for my first bitch. She was very nice indeed and there was a lot about her (including a super personality) that I'd still want to keep. Indeed I hope I have kept it, but she wasn't perfect. She had no gross faults, loads of type, a super head and wonderful presence and she did well for me, but looking back I can see that she was a bit fine (couldn't see it then :) ) I was also very keen on the dog doing all the winning at the time and thought of using her son over my bitch. That was a really stupid because nice as she was, she was a completely different type to my bitch and so was her son. I didn't have a mentor because the breeder of my bitch had stopped breeding. Fortunately one of the wise old ladies of the breed told me in no uncertain terms that I'd be crazy to go that way and frog-marched me over to a lady I only knew to say 'hello' to. 'Use her xxxxxx' said the wise old lady - and stomped off :) So I used xxxxxx and also found my mentor in his owner and breeder. She gently guided me away from making a complete horlicks of things until I did have what I wanted firmly fixed in my mind, and also had some idea about how I might go about getting it. At which point I finally realised just how subttly and gently I had been guided :) !

I agree with JG that it's a pity someone like you isn't breeding when so many wallies do. It's great to see someone admire a breeder for producing solidly good, even litters that are similar and can be recognised as his line. I'd much rather do that than have a one off breed record holder. So I'm glad you are not ruling breeding out for the future.

Ooh I can really identify with your post.  Ones ideas as to the breed evolve and change grasulaly with knowledge and experience.  I always say that breeding should be done from a position of knowledge, either your own, or that of mentors (when you first start out).

Also it is sad isn't it that the sort of people that should be breeding, or even those that do breed but limit themselves for the good of the breed, finds that the slack so to speak is taken up by those who have no business breeding.

what is your breed jas ?

Karen
you know my feelings on breeding so GOOD ON YOU for having principles !!!!

Thanks all for the replies. I am not saying I won't breed but I think there is "overkill" on Staffords but as you say JG maybe the "overkill" is caused by those who shouldn't but I don't think anyone will ever stop them. :(

I have been watching my breed for some 20 odd years and know what I like and WHY I like it, and will argue stand my corner but willing to listen and see a good dog even if it is not to my taste.

My previous Stafford bitch Gyp although a "nice" bitch with a solid pedigree I would no more of though of breeding a litter from her than flying to the moon she was not a bitch I would have wanted on a FUTURE PEDIGREE OF MINE. Although all round a "nice" bitch, with a fantastic temprement, and one of the nicest Staffords you could have as a companion/pet :)

My first Stafford bitch was well bred and a "good" example of the breed this was 1981 and 83 and we bred just the two litters from her; both litters went to brilliant homes and three pups were shown and did okay but all remained with their families until their deaths and we sent  cards to each at Christmas and the pups birthdays.We recived postcards and letter too and loads of photo's. The last pup dying in 1999 aged 15. Only one pup out of those 14 was bred from and  had three pups the lady kept one of the bitches and we see her often too...same arangement :) the other two went to two people who we had orginally sold one of the other pups too. None of the second gen pups were bred from.But this was back in the 80's when Staffs were no where near as popular as today.

Maybe that is the way to think about it would you want "your" present dog on a pedigree of your future dogs? if yes then maybe you are some way there if NO then don't do it.
Karen

Ta Lel,

I have principles...NO money...but principles ;)

Karen :)

You're doing the right thing, asking here.  :)

My reasons?

1.  Wanted a pup from my bitch
2.  Bitch is a fine specimin of her breed
3.  Had a waiting list for 2 years before I bred her of wonderful people.

But Daisy popped out 14 pups...not the normal 6-8 of her breed.  So in the end, I had pups here for a long time because I was having to screen people I didn't know....  not a fun task!  And it cost wads of money, so never think you'll make a fast buck on breeding!  Not to mention having to quit my job to care for the pups....even though it was only a part-time job, it was still too long to be away from the demands of such a litter.  So unless you have a wonderful bitch, no job, and lots of disposable income, I wouldn't bother ;)