I e-mailed someone here ion the UK that states that they breed Cockerpoos (their spelling) they also breed Westoodle and Porkies (!) along with Poodles, Westies, Cockers and Yorkies. They claim on their website that they have shown successfully at championship shows including Crufts and the owner is a KC approved judge who also holds the RTC judging diploma (whatever that is if someone can enlighten me!)
So if you take all that into account you will understand why I was a little stunned at this answer I recieved from them (all names etc have been removed!)
"we have mated a couple of bitches up at the moment. am not sure what you mean by "health tested". I am however a qualified veterinary nurse and my main priority with my dogs is to breed sound healthy happy puppies.do give me a ring if you want to know anymore."

Jesse

They very obviously have not got a clue what they are on about. I Don't know about breeding porkies but they are definitely telling porkies!! A vet nurse not knowing about health checks in dogs??

There is another Labradoodle site which says that they cannot guarantee that their puppies wont shed which I thought they all used as the corner stone of pushing them as a "New Breed" anyway.

Regards, John

I wonder if they really are KC approved. I know another well known kennel claimed that he was a Crufts Steward and I contacted the KC who said that he wasn't!

Jesse

Did you see the cross between a Bulldog and a Shitzu in the paper yesterday?  Whatever next!?!

Well as I have poodles seems like I have a head start on most people! Everything an oodle!

Jesse

I think the RTC Judging Diploma is the Judging Diploma awarded by the Animal Care College (RTC Associates being the company behind the ACC I think). It would be easy to check whether this person has the Diploma by contacting the ACC - they used to publish lists of those who pass the Judging Diploma in the dog press I'm sure.

Poodlebabe, could you PM me privately with the name of this person - as she's churning out my own breed (Cockers) amongst others, I wouldn't mind knowing who she is ;-)

Jane

Is this the person that one of the writers in Dogs World did an article recently about?  It was mentioned on here about 3 weeks ago.

Ah actually I think you may be right about that yes name now sounds familiar.

Jesse

you are talking about pankington kennels which have been used to do alot of research on the new herpes vaccine made by merial, they are a reputable kennels and have lots of dogs its a very large place and as far as i know they export alot of their cross breeding to america mainly, i thought it was weird too but she is a reputable breeder as i was recommended to speak to her regarding the herpes vaccine

I'm sorry but people who breed dogs for money, even if they are assisting in research and that was only because she was losing puppies (read money) are not reputable breeders and should never be recommended.
If they really were that good then they would know what is meant by health tests, especially a veterinary nurse.

Jesse

i do agree with your comments but i got the impression that this place is a huge kennels similar to arden grange or fantasa for example. i know that breeding cross breeds is not really reputable but i suppose as always if there is a market for something then someone will sell it , i could argue that with all the stray dogs in the world none of us should breed any dogs until all the ones in rescue have homes but this wouldn't happen as there is always someone wanting a specific breed, and should that be a cockerpoo then someone is supplying to a demand which in effect when we breed a litter of puppies we all do because we have no intention of keeping all the puppies in the litter jsut the ones we pick to show or whatever then we hope that our pups go to good homes but basically as a breeder reptutable or not we are all supplying to demand.............

I think if you search this board you will see that anyone who churns out large numbers of puppies solely for the purpose of selling are puppy farmers in my books.
There is a difference when breeding a litter with the intention that you wish to retain one. Of course you can't keep them all but there should still be the intention that you are breeding solely for yourself and the betterment of your lines. You will make sure that the parents are good representatives of their breed and have all the relevant health tests.
A Cockapoo is not a breed, it has not been standardised here in the UK (and the American one is a bit wishy washy) and I cannot see that there is any intention to create new breeds with regards to the crosses they are producing. This means these crosses are being prodiced solely for sale. If none of the cockers have had their eyes tested then this means that none of the cockapoos would come from eye tested stock and bearing in mind both poodles and cockers have eye issues, mixing the two breeds without testing is a genetic disaster waiting to happen.
I am begining to feel that some in the veterinary profession seem to think this qualification makes them suitable to be mass producers of dogs as there is a veterinary surgeon in Australia that is churning out 'goldenoodles' again with no testing.
I have been unable to ascertain that any of the large Labradoodle breeders in Australia actually test their stock either.
People who care that little about the dogs they breed have no place in the reputable dog breeders book.

Jesse

There is nothing responsible or reputable about deliberatly turning out crossbreeds Maxisleepi. There are more than enough in rescue kennels already :(

And reputable kennels put their breeding stock through the official health-screening schemes. I can't speak for the other breeds produced by this kennel, but this breeder's Cockers are not eye-tested that I can see :-(

i know i suppose i am just playing the devils advocate here, all i was meaning (not condoning) that if theres money to be made then someone,somewhere will always make it, not that i agree !!!!! you could also blame the people responsible for buying the aformentioned cross breeds too as they are just encouraging the trend.

It's the breeders who make out there is such a breed that are to blame. The vast majority of the general public know no different.

Jesse

what if initially it was a mistake and that people then requested these puppies, i must admit that when i spoke to merial about the herpes vaccine they said the lady bred cockers and westies and yorkies, they made no mention of the cross breeding and just to annoy you even more the fact that she's using the herpes vaccine in her kennels with success means that her stock also carry the herpes virus doesn't it ??? ...........mmmmm  i never thought of it like that, i suppose really she should have given up breeding instead of starting to use the vaccine.....ok you've changed my opinion your right she is an evil bitch and should be condemned totally.

I think a large percentage of people who regularly contribute on this board have a better than average knowledge of dogs and breeding. This means that they know a breed when they see it written on a board. They know that Poo or Doodle's are crossbreeds not recognised breeds. They also know enough about health tests to know that one of the requisites for documentation of health tests is a KC registration. The problem is, so many guests on here do not know. They are told that the sweet little 6 week old puppy is a new breed and they believe it.

I have also long had the feeling that some breeders of these crossbreeds come no the board asking about Labradoodles and the like in order to gain advertising. We have all seen the posts, "I've seen this new breed which looks so sweet on a site on the internet and was wondering . . . . . .?"

Regards, John

ok ok ok you've convinced me, she seemed very nice and knowledgeable on the phone and the fact that she was reccomended by a huge company i suppose swayed my opinion of her - but you are all right hse is bascically a puppy farmer and i suppose if she was breeding decent cocked,westies or yorkies then she would have no need to cross them as she'd be proud if the stock that she was producing, most normal breeders would be mortified if there different breeds crossed and produced a crossed litter but do bear in mind she must have some morals as she could have had a crossed litter and still registerd them as a pedigree as she owns stud dogs and bitches and used the old "oh its a throw back" crap when she got black/tan westies as i have witnessed this before.

The reason she is nice on the phone (and this applies to all puppy farmers or puppy dealers) is because she wants to sell you a puppy!

Jesse

I hadn't thought of it like that John but you are probably right. Maybe everyone should be made to register rather than allowing guests to post?

Jesse

Actually, I like the Guest bit Jesse. I dont think I would have started posting if I had been forced to register right back at the start. (In those days no one registered) I think quite a few people dip their toes in the water as a guest then realising that (most of the time anyway ;) ) we really do try to help, decide to register.

I know the system is not perfect and I know we sometimes kick the innocent but it is with the best of intentions and we do try to be fair to all.

Best wishes, John

Hi John ,i too came to this board knowing nothing of the Labradoodles ,only that i was told that if i was looking for a dog ideal for an asthmatic ,to type in Labradoodle and search ,i read all of the info ,and then by chance came across this site ,i logged on as a guest and asked exactly what you said .....i was shot down in flames ,in fact the first answer i had was "LABRADOODLES ARE NOT A BREED "  ,i did not post again for months (just lurked) i eventually plucked up courage and logged on again,by this time i had read enough here to realy research the so called breeders passing of this" so called breed "  and it was not difficult to see when people are trying to rip you off !  needless to say i persevered and found a pup who is low shedding and my daughter is fine with her , we rescued her )but i have to say when lay people and not knowledgeable breeders set out to look for a pup ,you look at the type of dog to suit your circumstances ,for us it was a dog with a low shedding coat ,and as much as i would have loved a Poodle the rest of the family didn't, we do usually most of us arrive here on this site by chance and i can not begin to tell you the help i have had here ,i will almost always turn here for help first (non emergency that is ) but we learn by following the  help offered here , so if we get our Labradoodles mixed up with our Cockapoos ,bear with us ..we get there eventually ,Bye Sue & Lola xx

Sorry Sue but the reply you got looks like one of mine! Oops! The trouble is, so many people sell them for just such situations as yours but crosses being crosses, you cannot guarantee which side of the cross the puppy will take after. It could shed as bad as any Labrador or nothing at all like a Poodle. I would always recommend a pedigree dog for the reasons that the characteristics are fixed so you know what you are getting.

Best wishes, John

Hi John ,well if it was you (and i honestly cant remember )it made me look into it all a lt closer ,because as you said you have no guarentee what the coat will be like ,a point my husband also made! ,( he's a John and also usually turns out to be right ...lol) but these "so called breeders " never mention this fact ,and as much as i love Labs ,they do moult a lot, can you imagine what it would be like if you had your pup home only to realise that the coat was MORE Lab than Poodle ,and moulting  ,it does not take long to bond with your pup ,it does not bear thinking about ! and also the prices of these "dogs designed for" Asthmatics and Alergies !!!!!!!" cost  a hell of a lot ,i was quoted £800,and above ! lets hope the other people thinking of buying these types of dogs DO look here first ,and listen to the info ,maybe then the need for these so called "breeds"  will diminish , i hope so,anyway John thanks for taking time out to answer,i always view your posts with much reverance ,they dont happen often !but when they do we all take notice (i know i do ) thanks Sue & Lola xx 

Isn't it sickening to be surrounded by "Know it all John's" Sue!

£800!!! Last week I was offered pick of the yellow bitch puppy from a Field Trials champion bitch put to a Field Trials champion dog. Both bitch and dog extreamly low hip scores, zero's for elbows and eye tested clear. £500! The stud dog was the dog I had selected for my Anna if I had been able to go ahead with the mating. There is simply no justification for an £800 price tag for a cross.

Best wishes, John

Hi John ,my John never lectures ,or yells ! just has that b****y  "told you !" look ......i'm sure you know the one ....!lol  Take care Sue & Lola xx

You should have stuck out for the Poodle, there really isn't another breed like them :D

Jesse

Hi Jesse ,i agree,i saw my first Poodle when i was 6 years old ,i have wanted one all these years (never say never i say ),when we visit France its amazing ,every other dog is a Poodle (they certainly take their national dog seriously ),but  i have also   noticed how many  now have Yorkies x Poodle ,they do like their small dogs ,but some of these are minute !! and they are almost always carried !another version of a Louis Vouton(sp) and no i do not like this  ,they realy are tiny and often quite ugly ,poor dogs( Viva  la Poodle !)  Take care Sue & Lola xx

I wonder if what you saw are what they call Teacup Poodles, very tiny ones which come with a whole host of problems. You'd have thought Toy Poodles were small enough!!

Jesse

P.S. Poodles originated from Germany!! ;)

Hi Jesse, i did wonder about the Tea Cup Poodle ,i have heard so much about them ,mostly their problems , and i never knew Poodles originated in Germany .!...cant wait to impart that little tit bit to a very good, but up tight French friend( dont worry she is the first one to admit to it !) i wonder what    Poodle is in German ?  Lol  Take care Sue & Lola xx 

Pudel is where Poodle originates from! You should see some of the German Poodles, Parti Colours and Black and Tans!!

Jesse

Hi,
'Poodle' = 'Pudel' = 'puddle' (water) dog!