i have  14 month rottie who is very well socialised- maybe too well, however i am finding it a problem getting him to come when called when at the park for example. they say not to let dogs, especially big ones, off the lead in public until they have mastered this, but he is excellent with recall at home and on walks when i get his attention first. it is just that when he's running around he gets distracted and starts to chase the birds- completely ignoring me.if there were dogs around he would probably run up to them to play but i only let him off when theres no-one in sight- so i only visit the parks on quiet days.
also could someone please tell me what to do when he doesnt come to call- do i go up to him and tell him off and put the lead on - if not, how does he know that he has done something wrong and how do i correct him?   

hi ...try reading about the pager collar     http://diamondbarkennel.tripod.com/turnpager.htm              its a wonderful tool

I used a dogtra pager collar, much the same reasons, fine when he was not interested in much, forget me when he saw something else, it got dangerous. The collars are excellent, a bit dear but worth it, no worries and he gets loads more carefree excercise since.

dont know if it will work..but when ours gets a little "distracted" we run away in the opposite direction shouting her name..only works in a park..but usually makes her turn round and leg it after us..usually makes her a little bit concerned about us being too far away too..only an idea?

First of all dogs don't 'do' right and wrong. They understand safe and dangerous, rewarding and unrewarding but not right and wrong. 

I disagree with you about not letting dogs off lead until they have mastered the recall because they cannot master it unless they are given the chance.  A very young pup will not leave your side.  That is the time to teach.  As they get older they naturally become more inquisitive and adventurous and they should be allowed to investigate their surroundings whilst at the same time you should have play sessions and maybe even take their dinner with you for a picnic.  A dog that is 14 months old and has only ever done recall at home or with no distractions about is not going to suddenly start doing it when there are other more interesting things to see and do.

Obviously you need to keep your dog safe and because he is a rottie I am sure you are aware that some people will not welcome his approach.  If you have him on a long trailing line (at least 50ft) you can just stand on it and walk up it towards him when you need him back and only call and reward him when he is coming anyway - to start with. 

Stage 1 of a recall is to get your dog to look up and follow you.  Stage 2 is to call him when he is heading your way.  Stage 3 is to call him when he was thinking of coming anyway.  Stage 100 is when he is chasing birds or playing with another dog.  There are all the stages inbetween.  If you succeed at one stage before progressing to the next you'll get there eventually. 

Keep things like his food and toys really valuable so that you can use them as rewards and he will see you as the provider of all things wonderful.  If he has lots of toys and games with you at home then he won't be particularly fussed about having them as a reward at the park.  I have always trained older dogs to recall by taking their meals out with me and having short bursts of a game with a ball or frisby and allowing them when appropriate to go and say hi to other dogs.  The ball will be produced randomly when there are no distractions and when there are distractions so that I can choose which dogs he can go say hi to.  Be aware that always calling a dog when he is about to do something interesting will make him resent being called.  Putting him on the lead every time another dog appears will make him avoid you. 
HTH (know what this means now :) )

Sally

I agree that dogs need to be let off early, and in my view recall needs to be taught from day 1 (and using the food bowl is what many trainers have done over the years and it works a treat) :)

Older dogs can certianly be taught too so there is hope for Mr Rottie ;) He is at a stage where he probably will not be that reliable because all dogs go through a teenage stage and this just has to be worked through. Dogs that obey in the home environment will not necessarily recall under the distracting environment of the park, so in a way you may need to go back to basics in various situatoins before you get the recall you want :) So once it is perfect in the home, get it in the garden; once it is perfect there, get it in a well known area outside but with no real distractions, and build it up over the months so that finally you have a beautifully trained Rottie who will recall excellently whatever is happening.

Steve White, a K9 trainer in the US, says that a dog's understanding of a command is not one hundred per cent unless it has been fully taught in at least 20 different environments. He was in fact talking about the Down Stay, but in my view his comments apply to all training really :)

Just a few odd tips here: never call him as he is just about to go off - you must catch his attention before  he goes and reward him for staying with you. Never call him if he is ignoring you as you are teaching him that you will always be there waiting for him. ONce he is proficient at the recall, you can then call him away if you need to, with lots of reward and praise. Do let him socialise with other dogs so that he has a social life (as long as he is friendly).

LIndsay

Sally,

'First of all dogs don't 'do' right and wrong. They understand safe and dangerous, rewarding and unrewarding but not right and wrong.'

 
I follow dogs don't do 'right' and 'wrong' but have to question what you mean by they understand 'safe and dangerous'.!!!

That's exactly what dogs don't understand.  Why else, when they have owners stupid or arrogant enough to have their dogs off-lead near busy roads do dogs see something interesting on the other side and run out and get killed.  Dogs now live in our world and they do not understand most of it which is why we need to teach, train and educate them to live with us. 

No owner should think their dog knows 'safe' and 'dangerous' that would be  foolhardy.  Surely it is the  dog owners responsibility to ensure that they keep their dogs safe from harming themselves or others.

Suzique,  By safe and dangerous I wasn't refering to roads.  Of course dogs don't know that a road is dangerous unless , God forbid, something awful was to happen.  I was talking about punishment.

Take housetraining for example.
Puppy is taken into the garden and pees and poos = reward from owner
puppy wanders into the garden and pees, owner not about = nothing happens
Puppy pees in lounge, owner not about = nothing happens
puppy pees in dining room, owner present = reprimand

AND SO ON AND SO ON...........

What we THINK we are teaching our puppy is that it is good to go in the garden and it is bad to go in the house but what they are actually learning is that it is always safe to go when my owner isn't watching and when they are watching sometimes it is rewarding and sometimes it is dangerous. 

Sally

Interesting Sally :) I'd never thought about it in that way before, learn something new everyday :)

Sally

That's not learning what is safe and what is dangerous - that's learning that humans are inconsistent. 

Surely the first rule of house training is to reward (by praise) when the dog piddles/poos where you want it to do.  By so doing, the behaviour is reinforced and more likely to be repeated and you totally ignore  the 'accidents' in places you don't want the dog to piddle.  That means there is 'no reward' in peeing in the house but there is when you pee outside.  Reward and Punishment do not equal 'safe' and 'dangerous' but punishment does  equate with a bad trainer/owner.

Exactly :)  I agree with you completely.  I was just giving an example of how dog's learn.  I wasn't advocating punishment I am vehemently opposed to it.   What I was trying to illustrate is what dog's percieve as ' safe and dangerous '  If you have an owner that punishes you then you are safe when they are not about.  I sincerely hope that no one thought I was saying you should reprimand a puppy for peeing in the dining room.  I was showing why you shouldn't. 
Sally

Sally

Glad to know we're singing off the same songsheet after all!!

thank you for all your replies. i think i am expecting too much from him and will take your advice and go back to basics in different situations- the non understanding public will just have to bear with me for a while! please could you tell me where i can get a 50ft lead from, or do i need to make one. much appreciated, cath

See my separate thread on long leads - loads of great suggestions and someone's offered me an old one which she might let you have insetad since I've already paid for one!! :-)