Hi Everyone,
I have been looking at my boxers pedigree certificates and just wonder what SP CH before a name means?
Also I have been looking at the pedigree's of other boxers on the serching for a breeder/puppy page and have noticed that the name CH SANTONOAKS ROBBIE REDCOAT is on some of them which is also on mine quite a few times. Would this be the same dog or could the same name be registered twice under the same breed?
The above name is on both of my boxers pedigrees and is on one twice, if I did want to breed my two could this be a prob?
Also on my bitch's owner reg certificate under breeder it says MRS NAME but above this it say'd transfered on DATE from MISS NAME, What does this mean?
Sorry for asked all these q's but I would just like to understand a little more about it all.
Thanks in advance,
Lou.

1.Spanish Champion would be my guess
2.The same dog
3.I would be carefull as you could be line breeding to the same dog This can be a good or bad thing depending on how good the dog is/was & what faults he carried
4.Could be the dogs had been bought & resold or the KC might have made a mistake

Hi again
Thanks for the reply. Got another question tho about the line breeding, How would I know/be able to find out how good the dog is/was and if he carried any faults and if so what? Also where could I find out more about line breeding?Or could any of you on here tell me more about it?
Thank you again
Lou

Hi,
Have you contacted any of the Boxer breed clubs? The members would I'm sure be only to pleased to help and provide you with information.
:)

Hi,
Thanks for reply. No I haven't contacted any of the Boxer breed clubs but I will do. Do you know any numbers email addys or where I can get the info for these from.
Thanks
Lou

Hi Lou,
You will find contacts for the boxer breed clubs at the bottom of the Breed Standard link.

Line breeding onto a good producing dog is never a bad thing.   A dog appearing twice in a pedigree is far from excessive, I have one dog in Curtis's pedigree who crops up 6 times in the 5 generations and if I could have this dog more times, I would!    

As Rae Furness is quoted as saying about one of her successful Clumber studs "can never be bred back to too often".  It would be worth contacting the Santonoaks kennel and discussing their Ch.dog to see what they think.   They will know their lines attributes and failures.

Hi
Thank you for the reply. i was getting a bit worried about the line breeding but you have mad me feel alot better. i have continued to look at the other pedigree certificates on here and have noticed that some have dogs with the same name on them two or three times. do you know how I could contact the Santonoaks kennel? i will do a search now and have a go tho. Thanks again for the info, any more you could offer would be great. will this dog be from the santonoaks kennel or could someone just have picked the name? i know this question may sound a bit stupid but if a dog/bitch has the name of a kennel in their pedigree does it mean they have been come from that kennel or can just anyone include a kennel name into one of their puppies padigree names?
Thank you all for your help and info
Lou.

Hi,
Only the people who own the affix (kennel name) of 'Santonoaks' can use it. Any dog with that name will be bred by them.
:)

The Santonoaks Boxer kennel is owned by Annabel Zammit.
She doesn't have a website. She occasionally advertises in the dog papers,
and also the breed publications such as Boxer Quarterly or Boxer club year books.
She may be at Crufts, on Sat 6th March.
Robbie Redcoat is a well-known Boxer stud, he can be found in alot of todays
Boxer's pedigree's. Photo's of Robbie can be seen in some of the more recent
published Boxer breed books and the older year books.
The boxer bitch Santonoaks Be Bop A Lula won the working group at Crufts
a few years back. I think if I remember correctly she descends from him.

Just a word of caution on the line breeding topic - it is not for the novice,  you need an in depth knowledge of the lines you are using, to make sure you are fixing the necessary traits, not the undesirables.  You need to be able to rely on accurate and readily available info. from the breeders of the dogs you are contempalting repeating in your lines.  This includes health info. as well as types produced by them, and their own pros and cons.
bye
Gwen

You may well be right, Gwen, but it's surely less of a gamble than in-breeding or out-crossing?

Thing is if BoxerLuv contacts Santonoaks, even if they didn't own the dog, they will have bred him & will know his virtues & failings.   I did a quick Google search on Santonoaks and Ch.Santonoaks Robbie Redcoat comes up an awful lot of times so he must have had an impact on the breed.   As yet I haven't found a site for Santonoaks themselves BUT I'm sure someonwe will know of contact details.  I'm a gundog owner & even I've heard of this kennel thats how "famous" it is!  :D

My 1st litter was bred as a "novice" but it contained the dog I mentioned in my previous postings on both sire & dam's side.....in this litter contained a Sh.Ch. bitch (BOB Crufts 1997) and a RCC winning bitch too.    Line breeding is far better than continual outcrossings where you'll end up with no type.  Even outcrossing can throw up problems, you'll encounter something you haven't bred in before.

My sister's ESS was a grandson, gt.grandson & gt.gt. grandson of Sh.Ch. Hawkhill Connaught, one of the one influential dogs in the breed, unfortunately the dam's side was all working, even as a "complete" novice when we bought him, I can see his sire was line bred beautifully.

Hi Jeangenie, Lily Munster  and orignal Poster,my previous response was just meant to advise getting full info. about this dog (and any others) before going ahead with adding him yet again to the pedigree.   Things change as dogs produce more offspring, and previously unkown problems may occur.  Before anyone panics I dont mean I know anything detrimental about this dog, just that it is essential to have the full facts before continuing with a line breeding based on him (or any unkown quantity) , as the original poster obviously knows nothing about him.  Also needs to make sure that the traits they may be fixing with their own dog and bitch are compatibile.  As a novice, they need advice about the lines and what it produces, for instance, if they dont know both of their dogs has the same fault they are much more likely to produce a litter with it.  If it is a fault which has appeared again and again in the original breeders lines they will be fairly sure they will get it again.  (reading this back it sounds about as clear as mud, sorry)  And I do agree, in-breeding should not be considered by the novice.  Of course with an outcross you still need to research pedigrees and health checks anyway.  I guess what it comes down to is, if these are a dog and bitch who have been sold as pets perhaps they are not an ideal starting point for line breeding, if the breeder did not consider them to be show or breeding potential, and to mate could just double up on problems.  However, I may be assuming far too much!
bye

Gwen
,

Hi Gwen,

I totally agree with you but at least BoxerLuv has asked a lot of questions first to try & understand what their dog's pedigrees contain.  I know nothing about Boxers but I'm sure there will be someone who will be of greater help and I think Santonoaks would be just the place!  :)

Robie redcoat had a LARGE impact on the breed, i myself was young when he was around but I know that my g-parents used him on a couple of their bitches and he produced some cracking little ones! :D

Rox

Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to say thanx for all the info you have all given me.My husband and myself have got tickets for cruffs for the 6th but my hubby has got to work, so I wasn't going to go but I think now I may come along with a friend or my dad. If any of you know or could get the number/email addy for annabel Zammit I would be really gratefull  :)
In response to Gwen's post I would just like to say that I am really interested in the Boxer Breed, I think they are an amazing breed and maybe eventually would like to get into breeding or/and showing them but untill i feel I know enough about this I would deff not do it. Maybe by the time I feel I am ready both my dogs will be to old but I would love to keep owning boxers and living with them, so maybe at some point I will get the chance to breed/show. Untill then I hope you can all continue to help educate me :)  and help to find out more about my dogs and breeding/showing.
Love and thanks again
Louise :)

Oh, sorry just one more question, Are any of you going to be at cruffs this year????
Lou

Great, it is so good to find a new member who wants to do a lot of reasearch before leaping into breeding.  A lot of us will be at Crufts this year, but on various days - 2 threads on it, in the Showing section I think.
bye
Gwen

Hi Gwen,
Thanx 4 that. I will check out the showing section. I wouldn't dare breed untill I feel I know enought about it, I've read lots of horror stories on here but it is something that really interest's me so i will keep on learning, asking you all 50 million questions, and reading lots. :)
Oh, wot do people where when they go to cruffs, I know I will only be watching but I would hate to be under/over dressed. im allready worried/wondering what to wear and I don't know if I will even be there yet, typical woman I guess. :)
Lou

Don't worry, visitors to Crufts can wqear whatever they want! Make sure you have comfy shoes (there's a lot of walking around the stalls) and whatever else you usually wear. Jeans and a jumper is practical - it's not a place for high fashion!
:)

And get your elbows out to push your way through the crowds that are walking at minus 10 miles an hour! 

I'm not going this year!!!!  First time I've missed Crufts in ages but no doubt I'll hear all the gory details!

are you starting to wish you had entered?? I am in a way now as first time not going in years - but then - think of the money we;ll save cos we won't be tempted to spend!!! We can be armchair enthusiasts this year!!

No, but I was so looking forward to doing Discover Dogs...until the "privilege" was withdrawn....

ah.. yes...time of night - had forgotten about that little *problem*

BoxerLuv - I got a great book for Christmas - The Complete Boxer by Tim Hutchings - well worth buying (try the Amazon web site). It has everything from the origin of the boxer right through to showing them (great book for the showing aspect if your interested in having a go).

Dexy

Hi everyone,
I will try and get hold of that book and have a read. Have got quite a few boxer books and book of the bitch but I will give that book a go.
Just a couple more questions. What tests should you have done on your dogs before breeding?  What is the range of heart scores and what is classed as good in those?
Cheers again
Lou