I'm interested in some of the comments which have been made on other topics about chasing sheep.
I am a first time dog owner with a 8 month old lab. We don't have many sheep round here and Thistle has never been in a field with sheep so I don't know how she'd react. The thing is I've booked a holiday for us in sheep country in Wales in the summer and she is coming with us. Is there anything I can do to increase the chances of her not chasing sheep? I don't want to keep her on the lead all the time and the cottage we stay at has sheep all around. Of course she usually comes when I call her, but she is not 100% and maybe if there was something more exciting she wouldn't come back. Any tips?

My sister lives in North Wales and believe me, the farmers will shoot first and ask questions later! My dog picks up on a sheep and cattle farm but for her safety I would not let her off anywhere where there are sheep where she is not known. It's not worth the risk.

Regards, John

I totally agree John, however well behaved the dog it is not sensible to allow it off lead anywhere near sheep unless with the permission of the farmer. We have recently heard the sad story of an Elkhound who was shot by a farmer in one of his fields when there were no live sheep in the field, where the Elkhound was just going to say hello to the farmer. The farmer had recently lost some sheep to wandering dogs (NOT the Elkhound) and over reacted to the sight of a loose dog on any of his land. He admitted he was wrong afterwards but that did not bring the Elkhound back to life.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

The standard practice for us with gundogs is to get them used to sheep beforehand. The best way I've found is to take your lab to where there are sheep indoors, as around this time of the year they are brought in with their lambs. Obviously you will need to speak to the farmer first. As your lab is still young, you can take her on the lead through the middle of them, and if she's pays too much attention to any, give her a sharp tug on the lead (I would use a slip lead), and a stern no. You may well find that if she gets too near a ewe, the ewe will butt her away, and this seems to train them even better than us humans giving them a tug! At this age, you will also probably find that she is more frightened of them and their lambs, than they are of her.

As she is too young to be steady, there is no way you can let her off lead when sheep are around, especially as it is lambing time soon. Sheep can be very protective of their young, and can severly harm or kill a pup. So put your pup in a position where she can't get into trouble, and keep her on a long lead. That is the only way you can maintain control.

I agree - keep her on a long lead. A well known exhibitor of lovely Labradors fairly near me had two of her dogs shot dead by a neighbour for just entering the field where sheep were a couple of years ago. They were not even chasing sheep, but went ahead of their owner into the field. the farmer happened to be in the field waiting for a fox early one morning, saw the dogs and shot them dead. One was her first Champion, recently made up, and the other had just gained its junior warrant. So as well as losing two special friends in an horrific incident she also had her best breeding line wiped out. Its was a while ago now but I think I am remembering correctly that it went to court as the owner said the farmer had no right to shoot the dogs as they were not chasing the sheep, or indeed anywhere near them, but the magistrate ruled that the farmer was entitled to shoot them for just being there. Jo Flatcoat - do you remember this? PLease dont take any chances - some farmers are not the same sort of animal lovers that we are and will shoot first and think second. The sad thing is that he knew the dogs, and knew that the owner was entering the field to call them back and KNEW the dogs were well trained and would have returned immediately they were called.

Sadly some farmers can be trigger happy - there's no excuse really for shooting a dog known to them, shooting a dog in a totally empty field, etc. Understandable but not really excusable. I have heard so many similar storeis though ..... i feel it's just not worth the risk.

Unless as John has said, the farmer knows the dog has a right to be there.

Er - I think if it was me, i would maybe change my holiday plans :D

Lindsay

Yes, Westie, Lover, I remember it very well indeed - we were all gutted. As far as I remember, it wasn't the farmer who shot them, but his lad.

Still, an object lesson learnt the hard way - just don't take any chances at all around sheep; it's not worth it. We ourselves hard a sheep effectively killed (we had to put her down after) by a dog belonging to a friend, and I was the pretty mad with the friend, who seemed so complacent about the whole matter. She has since died, so can't say too much.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

The same thing happened to someone with their young Elkhound who entered the field ahead of his owner, where sheep had been but no longer, just the carcasses of two that had been worried. The dog trotted up to the farmer to say hello, taking no notice of the dead sheep, and was shot in dead in the face.

His distraught owner carried him away into the woods, but then had to leave him to get his car! He was only 14 months old!!

Thank you all very much for your advice. I will just keep her on the lead anywhere that there are sheep and try to find some sheep-free places to let her have a run. We went there last year and I'm sure there was a beach nearby where you could take dogs.

Thistle.........another point, and one that I don't think has been mentioned yet...........what sort of sheep??? To the uninitiated, one sheep is much like another, but there is a big big difference between
"in country" sheep & "moor/mountain" sheep. Flocking, in-country sheep are relatively easy to stock break a dog to, but moor sheep, especially scottish blackface, have a very different "gamey" sort of scent, and that, combined with their singleness (ie wander about in ones or twos rather than flocks) makes them far far more attractive to dogs.
All my hounds live with sheep & never bat en eyelid at them, infact part of their training at a few months of age is that they must be able to hunt a cold line through a flock of sheep without showing any interest atall & I am glad to say they can all do it. However, sbf/moor sheep can be the downfall of the most stock proof of dogs/hounds & even I wouldn't risk it & I have 600 of them!
You may well find that all your training will mean nothing by the time you get to Wales, as they are likely to be hill sheep!

Yes Sam-The sheep that we see there are those 'more attractive to dog' type that you describe ie wandering about in ones and twos (with black faces too), so you think that makes it even more likely that she'd go for them then?

yes, 'fraid so, ask anyone who has ever hunted hounds & they will tell you that these sort of sheep are very "gamey" (ie smell deer like) to a hound, & therefore to any other sort of dog too. I wouldn't take any chances atall.

A farmer is not simply allowed to shoot a dig in an emprty field, it must be near livestock and in the opinion of the farmer causeing them worry.
But what is sadly missing here is the emphasis the all owners of dogs, regardlees of sheep or livestock areas should obedience train their dogs, it seems reading this that no one is performing that task.
No wonder children are going more and more out of control.

What you say is true but, and this is the important thing, IT HAS HAPPENED! and the dog is just as dead!
As far as training dogs around livestock is concerned, to my knowledge, most if not all of the people answering this thread have dogs which are used to being around animals. My fear is not about how my dog will react, rather how the farmer who does not know my dog will react.

John

Yes John,
Anyone owning a dog and taking it to the countryside (I live in London) must understand that a farmer has no personal feeling or interest in someones dog he sees.
His interest is in his livestock which leaves all dogs at risk if they are out of control.
Apart from the farmer situation all dogs out of control fall foul of sections of the dangerous dogs 1991, in that act a dog only needs to 'appear' to be threatening, if a freindly dog runs towards a child and its family and they in turn know nothing of dogs or maybe do not like them then that freindly dog can be reported for being dangerously out of control and appearing to be threatening, the dog will almost certainly be put down.
So, I still maintain that all people taking on a dog, or who already have one, MUST have the dogs interest at heart before their own ownership of a dog and ensure the dog is adequatly trained to recall under extream temptation, there is no reason every dog owner should not do this.

Now on this post Frank (?) I can agree with you 100%. Training a dog to be an asset rather than a nuisance is an obligation every owner takes on when they chose to have a dog. The trouble is not everyone has the skills or the facilities to achieve success IN EVERY ASPECT. People from a region without sheep farms for example and possibly without a means of transport are going to have problems with this aspect of training. Even after training a good recall can you guarantee instant obedience the first time the dog sees sheep? I would not risk it.

Regards, John

That's exactly right John, and that's why I asked the question in the first place. As John says , Frank ,I'm sure that even the most responsible dog owners cannot be 100% sure that their dogs could be recalled under extreme tempation. Thistle and I went to the driving range with my husband and son this afternoon. Of course I had to keep Thistle on the lead to stop her chasing the balls. I did wonder though how much I would have to train her (as an ordinary pet) NOT to chase the balls, as she is crazy about retrieving things, being a lab. I have trained her to 'wait' before she fetches and she is brilliant at that, but it would be quite a different senario expecting her to watch 100 golf balls being shot off and not retrieving any of them :-)

I live on a dis-used farm but the back fields still have cows in for grazzing and in the summer months the front fields have horses in for grazzing. I can trust Molly 100%. Even so when we walk past she goes on her lead, and she does not either bother with them. But I wont take that chance. We travel alot aroud the country and were there are live stock she is on her lead and that't that! Molly can't understand the fuss really??

Julieann

I guess I am very lucky in that I live on a farm but the farmer lives next door to me and is a really nice guy, he also knows my dogs are not responsible for any sheep that get worried as he knows they are always kept securely in their kennel or my house.
I have excercised my dogs off lead plenty of times with sheep grazing in the adjoining field, when I throw the ball my dogs don't even glance at them, and they were not introduced to sheep as pups. Mind you, I would not let them out of my sight and would never excercise them in the same field as sheep, as I think once a dog starts to chase, the hunting instinct takes over and that is that.
My collie Connar, from strong working lines seems to be more interested in cows than sheep, he always barks at them!