Help!
I have a 15 week chocolate lab, who is proving very difficult to house train. When i first got her i had time off to settle her in, and now she sometimes has to spend up to 4 hours alone. Because the breeder and not started to house train her i got a crate, as i cant contain her in one room at night. I thought i would get her used to being in it at night, and also if i am to be out of the house for any length of time during the day while she is young. When i first got her she hated being even left in a room alone even for a few minutes. So when i tried to leave her in the crate for a few minutes she went crazy, crying, howling, etc. But she did start going in the crate if she needed a wee so i thought that would solve my house training problem and she could have the run of downstairs during the night and when i'm out. 6 weeks on and she is still having 'accidents' on the floor, and she poo's basically wherever she wants and even twice on the sofa now she has grown big enough to jump on it. She never does it when i am there so i cant tell her off, but i am very worried it is becoming a habit i wont be able to brake. So now i come back to the crate idea...is she too old for me to get her used to it to prevent her from being able to soil wherever she is?
It would be great if someone could give me some advice, she is a lovely girl but it is getting depressing clearing up after her all the time...

Hi Ya.

I have a 11 week old golden and he loves his crate, i always give him teats when he goes in on his own accord and before i leave him for the night i feed him a handful of dinner i left back. I'm no dog trainer as i have asked advice on here but i found that helped, as he dident like being shut in a room but does like the crate and they don't like to mess there bed so it mite stop the accidents.
Mite help.

Its not too late to crate train..I would do the usual..put in some toys atc but you will have to be prepared to let him cry.By going back you are just making it harder..he now thinks that if he cries you will come running.Don't make a big fuss when you put him in his crate..just put him in and walk away..no big 'goodbyes'.
Good luck
Archer

Hi everyone, i'm not sure if i am relpying right but i hope you can all see this message...thank you so much for all your help, and sorry that i seem to of started a bit of an arguement. Daisy last night spent her first night in the crate, and i went to bed in the certain knowledge that i was the cruelest mum in the world. But she didnt fuss when i put her in there, i had put her favourite bedding and a chew in there, she just curled up and settled down. I set my alarm for 1 and my brother set his for 5, and we got up both times and let her in the garden, made a little fuss of her then put her back in. She didnt cry at all, and didnt mess in there at all but waited to be let in the garden. Best of all she obviously likes it in there as when she got back from her walk today, after going to the loo in the garden(!!) she walked straight in to the crate to sleep :o)
It was so much nicer this morning being able to play with her and feed her rather than first having to clear up her many nights 'accidents'
I had never liked the idea of crating before but now i must admit it seems to be a good thing, even if only for some dogs. I was at my wits end with her using the whole downstairs of my house as her toilet, especially when she went on the sofa a few times. I dont mind her sleeping up there but why on earth would she poo?? My 2 previous dogs have both been house trained on newspaper which has worked fine, I guess some dogs just need to be toilet trained straight to the garden, as showing her it was ok to go on news paper in the house just didnt work for her. 
But now if the crate continues to be successfull, i can be the good owner she deserves and not the stressed out one i was becoming :o)

Stick with it!! My 18 week old Gordon has been crate trained from day one, and loves it - only had accidents in it his first 2 nights home, then nothing since. Try leaving the door open, put some favourite toys in there, make sure the bedding is comfy, let her wander in and out at will, you could also try feeding her in it to reinforce its a good place to be. I love that I can put my boy in there for a few hours when I go out, and know the house will be in tact when I get back! Also, have a radio on in the room where she is, they hate a silent house if they are nervous dogs. Dont put paper on the floor of the crate, make sure her bedding covers the base as dogs wont soil their bedding unless ill. Limit her free time in the house, and only when supervised, take her out regularly to relieve herself too, stick with it and you should have it sorted fairly quickly - good luck!!!

Amy was in a pen from the day we got her. She goes in if we are out and overnight. Jim thought now she is getting older she should not be put in overnight so he left the pen open. The poor wee thing did not know where to go she wanderd about most of the night. Back to the pen for her she seems to like it & she sleeps alnight so why upset her

Jean

i am really sorry but this create traing thing seems nasty  my boy a briard sleeps in my room next to me on a sleeping bag and has from day one i am a strong beliver in the good old newspaper as the days go on they can hold it better and then the paper can go i think its disgusting that  you force the poor creature to hold near bursting because you cant be bothered to clean up after him (as his mother would)it took my boy 3 weeks to be tottally and i mean tottally clean in the house at night in my room and dowstairs every day you move the paper nearer the door and they get the score it dosent make life harder than it seems to be for you guys how do you treat your kids when they are potty training i wonder lock them in a cage till they get it right it terrible and disturbing 

Amy is in a puppy pen it houses her bed and she has plenty room to walk around in she eats there & sometimes during the day she goes in for a lie down in her bed it is not locked She has been given the choice  but prefers her pen and has her toys. Our other dog sleeps on the bed with us

Jean

that sounds much kinder jeanniedean so amy can make her own choices much nicer

It is not only a case of toilet training...as I'm sure your aware puppies can do them selves harm and unless you can be with them 24/7 or you can puppy proof your whole house than I would use a crate for peace of mind.I have lived with a destructive dog who ended up eating everything from the the plaster out of the walls ,the main telephone connection box and the last straw was athe seal off the back off the upstairs toilet hence flooding the whole of the lower floor of my house.I will not live like that again but cannot live without my dogs and so a crate is the perfect answer...
By the way my boys LOVE their crate...they used it as their 'personal space'.I only took the crate down to decorate but have lent it to a freinds daughter whos Husky was eating their house.After 18 months of frustration and destruction the dog and owners are now happy and can enjoy their relationship.
Archer. 

i just wonder why you leave your dogs for so long that they start destroying your home? ( i am not being rude i just wonder )

It only takes 5 minutes with an intelligent dog, Catsclaw! ;)

Or less ;)

Daisy

well my house is dog and child safe i have chewed sofa legs but that is it i never leave him alone maybe thats the key i sleep of course but he sleeps by my side and only stirs if a kid gets up maybe i am just lucky with the breed?
this must cost that poor person a huge wad

I like a bit of privacy when I go to the loo - but I'm as quick as I can! ;)

Also the shops round here don't allow dogs in, so they have to be left alone then too - I can't afford staff to do my shopping for me.
:)

your lucky he follows me to the loo as well if its not him its one of my kids lol and i was only saying do u have to be catty

you are a nasty person aswell arent you jeangenie when one has had no problems of that nature one is quite interested as to why it happens.
i have spoken to my neighbour who is an animal behaviorist and it is bordom that causes these terrible things not intelligence

Oh you are getting the knives out calm down

Jean

I do consider that a rude question when you do not know me or my situation.At the time I had the destructive dog in question I was a house wife.I had to leave the dog at home to take the children to school,do the shopping etc.. He was never left for more than a couple of hours.He house trained easily but objected to being left
.My dogs are not and never have been neglected and now after a nights work (get to bed at 6 AM) i get up again after 2 hours sleep to take the kids to school and then take my boys for an hours run.Only then do I go to bed...for 4 hours. I chose to have my boys and I live my life around them...no holidays...no nights out!!
There are several people on this board who know me and my boys and if they commented about my dogs or the way they are treated I would listen and take the comments on board ...however I suggest you should be less judgemental
Archer

very sad argument - i have bought up 3 exceptionally well balanced and happy children - but also crate trained dogs!!! my puppies have all loved having their own space, safe from annoying inquisitive toddlers - my daughter aged 2 would love nothing more than curling up in puppies bed!! - crate training is anything but nasty, did you never put a toddler in a playpen??? puppies love a cosy warm snuggly place of their own. My boy was clean and dry in 2 nights - and is a completely happy and well-balanced dog,it is not a case of "holding until bursting point" but bladder control - is that not what you do at night????

as i was saying i have never used these methods in my life and was just wondering and having an opinion 
instead of feedback i get sarcasum and nasty replies i cant understand why i thought these forums were for asking and learning not for being insulted by people
if i need the loo at night i am frre to go and my dog is free to ask why are you all so nasty to me when all i ask is why?and state my prefrance
i said it seems nasty  a lady was explaing better and it sounds better than it did at first .
you dont seem to get that when a person hears about cageing dogs for ease of training it sounds awful but as the thread has gone along i see its not quite as i thought but it is still england and i am allowed to disagree i still think it makes sence to pup proof the house and treat the animal as one of your own but that is just my point of view
i had no idea thier where such extream behaviours out there i have never in my 32 years had these problems ,or been treated so badly by humans

Sparky loves his crate - I think he feels more secure in there than being left in a room; it's me who still feels guilty about it from time to time and I'm not sure why. It's a good size one, with plenty of room to turn around, stretch out etc. I did buy him a lovely big kennel and run area for outside, thinking he would prefer this, but it's a case of a couple of days OK in it, then back to the crate again as my neighbour told me he's been howling in it sometimes (this, by the way is after a good long walk in the morning, and being left with loads of toys - the most he is ever left is four hours). They are good neighbours and I want them on my side, so I keep him inside again now when I have to go out.

As for holding on to go to the loo - my kids still do that all day rather that use the loos at school! :)

yes my kids hate the school loos but they again are free to choose

to answer you debs453 no i have never put my children in a cage not even my 9 year old twins and they are also very good well behaved children my 12 yearold son is a bit of a handful but if you stick to your guns he does what he is told  soon enough
then theres the pmt monster with my 15 year old daughter but if you look at the calender you know why and make  allowances for it
i have had dogs all my life and never even heard of crate training and you see fit to treat my so badly just because i have an opinion?

Crates are fine if they are introduced properly and the dog sees it as its own "den" :) The problems may start when sadly a few owners abuse the system and start to keep the dog in there too long. I never fail to be disgusted if  i hear of a dog crated for more than 4 hours. Unless the dog is very happy, and the crate is very big, there is no need.

I do feel in years gone by, dogs would suffer because they chewed things and often got belted for it (if the owner was not very sensible) but now, with a crate, at least that has lessened a bit :)  Also the crate can keep a pup safe for a few minutes, although popping  a lead on and holding it could do the same ;)

I have a crate and my dog goes in it, but these days i hardly use it :) I think we all  have to weigh up our lifestyle and go from there....i totally understand how it can seem cruel, like an animal in the zoo and so on.... but if introduced happily and carefully, with chews etc in teh crate, the pup should see it as a great place to be and even  choose to go in there of its own accord. Thats when the owner has got it right! :)

LIndsay

lindsey you have hit the nail on the head i proberly have no need to use a crate as i am home all the time my hubbie works and i am the house wife i have no need for the create and as you say a sliped on lead or good voice control is also a good thing i had the front door repaired the other day and my dogs just layed in the front room no attmept to bolt for the door or escape also they sleep by my side at night so no need there and what with 4 kids you can imagine the house is quite dog safe as i said my sofa legs are chewed but that was more of a look at me thing
thank you for being civil its a real treat after some of the things folks have been saying to me

I think you need to remember that many of us on this board have more that 1 or 2 dogs.  Cage training is very important for a pups safety and comfort in a multi dog household.  My babes sleep and eat in a puppy pen, and are popped back in whenever I have to be out of earshot, that way I know the tinies are safe.  With the adults, most of them haave sleeping crates, apart from Junior, Puglet and Mabel who sleep on my bed.  However, during daytime, Puglet will often open a cage door and pop in for a 'catnap' or to eat a treat, away from the gang.  It is vital for most show dogs to learn that the crate is a safe, comfortable enviroment.  They spend many hours travelling in them, then resting in them at shows.  I advise puppy buyers to get one, to keep the pup safe from kids and visitors!
bye
Gwen

WE are into week 3 of our labrador puppy (and I'm probably going to regret this post within the next 7 days or so :D ) but we have not experienced the chewing of inappropriate objects this time round!!  This is, I think our 8th or 9th labrador puppy spanning over 40 years.  

The reason for this?   We started crate training when we had our first Aussie, and find that it does work!

Freya is fed in her crate - that way she can feed without interruption from other dogs or cats.   She sleeps in her crate, next to Purdey's bed - she goes in herself to sleep there.   If I am busy doing something else with one of the other dogs and I don't want her interrupting - in she goes!  She is quite happy about it, as are the other dogs when they go into theirs from time to time - oif one is injured and needs rest, it is easier in a crate.

Just be very careful about the crate you buy - there was a posting on here a few days ago with a link to a crate that had caused a fatal injury to the pup. 

Regards
Margot

Agreed Gwen, my puppies leave me crate and lead trained and all my owners are very pleased to be able to go to bed that first night home and no crying puppy.  Dogs and puppies chew for a multitude of reasons regardless of you being with them all the time or not believe me I grew up with WSS and as puppies they would sit watching mum do their dinner chewing on a chair leg, in that innocent adorable way youngsters have with them lol.

As for people being nasty and sarcastic with you I think you need to take another look some of the posts have smiling faces to show you it's meant to be a laugh not to be taken seriously.  I am happy for you that your children are good as are many children of other parents on this board including my own who have been raised by me alone no hubby around to bring in the wages, so the dogs had to spend some time alone. I was also raised with dogs going hunting and shooting and have competed in obedience as well as confirmation shows with my animals so all are happy well trained dogs ------ ok my GSD's were the schips are a law unto themselves on the training front lol  Despite this I gave crates a go when they first became available and have never looked back, my veteran dogs who sleep with me choose which crate they are going to sleep in during the day when the others are outside playing the doors are never shut on them, each dog knows which is their crate and run in at meal times and bedtime no cruelty involved I can assure you.

My dogs love their crates, even the rescues, no especially the rescues.  Somewhere they can feel safe and secure.  My young girl was spayed last week and had a crate in the lounge for her convalescing.  She's a bit peeved that she's now back 'slumming it' with the others when I'm busy and would like the preferential treatment extended.  I have some permanent crates in the conservatory and they are always occupied.  Dogs here have been known to create a diversion, like pretending there is someone at the door to get another dog out so they can have the crate to themselves. 

Sally

Yes - I know that scenario - and the one where they all come rushing in, all trying to get in the "best crate" - three aussies cannot get into one crate all together :D

Margot

Have to agree.  My dogs too Love their crates.  It is a safe haven for them.  They also try to get in the "best" crate when asked to.  I also find they are very useful when you have a visitor who isn't particularly a dog lover (dont get many of those though) but when you do the dogs can be put in their crates, the visitors are happy in the knowledge that the dogs wont bother them and likewise the dogs are happy as they can see what is going on without having to be shut away in another part of the house.  I always recommend to prospective puppy owners that the first investment to purchase for the new puppy is a "crate".

sorry but i am ignorant about crates as i have not had to use them so really cant add any feedback about their uses but what i can say hopefully without digging myself a grave, is that after reading all the above posts i cant see any replies to which have been intended nasty or intentionally horrid.
I am no expert on this toppic to sorts, but i have had much worse, more to the point of actually appearing horrid replies and pm'swhich others have taken in the same way as me.
IMO the fair majority on this forum are all very nice and considerate folk and are very comforting with peoples problems and do offer great advice and friendship/support..
goodluck

Well said Sam!!!

That was nice Sam

Jean

Thanks Sam, as you did not exclude me from your comments I now have a nice glow ;)

Thank you Sam!
:)

Hi everyone, i'm not sure if i am relpying right but i hope you can all see this message...thank you so much for all your help, and sorry that i seem to of started a bit of an arguement. Daisy last night spent her first night in the crate, and i went to bed in the certain knowledge that i was the cruelest mum in the world. But she didnt fuss when i put her in there, i had put her favourite bedding and a chew in there, she just curled up and settled down. I set my alarm for 1 and my brother set his for 5, and we got up both times and let her in the garden, made a little fuss of her then put her back in. She didnt cry at all, and didnt mess in there at all but waited to be let in the garden. Best of all she obviously likes it in there as when she got back from her walk today, after going to the loo in the garden(!!) she walked straight in to the crate to sleep :o)
It was so much nicer this morning being able to play with her and feed her rather than first having to clear up her many nights 'accidents'
I had never liked the idea of crating before but now i must admit it seems to be a good thing, even if only for some dogs. I was at my wits end with her using the whole downstairs of my house as her toilet, especially when she went on the sofa a few times. I dont mind her sleeping up there but why on earth would she poo?? My 2 previous dogs have both been house trained on newspaper which has worked fine, I guess some dogs just need to be toilet trained straight to the garden, as showing her it was ok to go on news paper in the house just didnt work for her. 
But now if the crate continues to be successfull, i can be the good owner she deserves and not the stressed out one i was becoming :o)

Start using a different word for crates/cages and there you have it. A den for their own personal use. A safe haven for them to go to when they need peace and quiet, like we all do at some time! Whatever the choice enjoy your dogs and stop trying to nag people into options that don't suit!   

Dont think anyone on here is nagging anyone Jimbuck.  Just giving their own personal preferences and experiences.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and YES, so are you.

Hi Jeni
glad things have worked out for you...
both of you can now enjoy a calm and happy relationship instead of getting wound up and angry!!
Well done,Archer

Sorry Molly didn't mean to upest anyone. Maybe nag was the wrong word.

I have had Cavaliers for over 20 years and all of ours just love their crates. They see the crates as their special place and very often will be in there with the door open, crate training is also good for holiday use, many hotels etc will welcome you if you explain that the dog sleeps in a crate. Usually and unless the dog is ill they will never soil their bed so perhaps training to a crate for this purpose is not good.  Young puppies can have half a crate to sleep in and the other half with newspaper as a toilet but there is really no alternative for training to go OUT.  You don't say how large your crate is and she will be growing fast now.  A better idea for confinment when she has to be left may be a puppy pen which will fold down flat when not in use, if you look at dog press you will see some which can have tops fitted.  Pooing anywhere she wants in the house must be stopped, I presume you are doing the usual of putting her out whenever she wakes and has had something to eat, get her used to certain words .... I use 'be quick' for a wee and 'be clean' for a poo, always praise when she does what you want but never smack or rub nose in anything to discourage .... all this does is break the super spirit and temperament.

Another thought maybe is that she is being fed at the wrong time, I seem to remember reading years ago that food takes about 6-8 hours from one end to the other so if you plan your feeding routine this may help.  We give our main meal about 4.30 inthe afternoon and just a light breakfast in the morning.  The dogs usually 'oblige' before bed and then again in the morning.

Hope this helps but do enjoy her, she won't be a puppy long.