hi, can anyone help. im looking to purchase a blue eyed white dobermann puppy. I realise they are expensive as i saw an ad in adtrader recently which had pups for sale at £1000 each, but im prepared to wait for the right puppy, and travel. also, can anyone tell me more about them, as the breed books i have read do not seem to mention this colour, is it similar to white in GSD's? doeas it mean you cannot show? any help much appreciated, thanks in advance.

White dobes are very new in this country, many people in the breed frowning apone them and the person who imported them.  They are shown in the ring, but again do not do as well.

http://www.dobenardobermanns.homestead.com/index.html

These are doby breeders white a few whites, its worth getting in contact with them.

Rox

Poor poor dogs, I suggest you look at this link, such horrendous disfigurements, for pure greed. 
http://www.whitedobes.com
Dawn.

They are in the show ring????  Don't think so, one was shown to prove a point, funny how they have "spread" considering we didn't have any, and the person responsible for bringing them into this country wasn't going to breed any.
Dawn.

ok Dawn,

Why on earth would you want in your wildest dreams want to buy a white Dobe??????????  The mere fact that they are white means that this is a serious fault and MANY health problems comes with them, these are albino and all animals that are born albino (including humans) have serious health probs.

White GSD's are white and have coloured (ie black or brown) nose leathers, lips, pads, eye rims etc - although white is frowned upon in the breed they are healthy dogs.  White Dobermanns are Albinos - see brief information below and although there is nothing to actually stop you showing them they are so far from the standard that you are unlikely to get anywhere. 

You won't find an albino pup from fully health tested parents in this country - something else to think about.

If you have more questions please register and feel free to ask

+++++++++++++++++++++

Our breed standard reads:

        Colour:
        Definite black, brown, blue or fawn (Isabella) only,
        with rust red markings.      Markings to be sharply
        defined, appearing above each eye, on muzzle, throat
        and forechest, on all legs and feet and below tail.
        White markings of any kind highly undesirable

This should be clear to anyone - the colours of our breed are Black, Brown, Blue and Fawn (Isabella) rust red markings.  Apart from stating that white markings are highly undesirable, white is not mentioned.

In fact these so called "white" dobermanns are actually albinos, and yes, albinos can and do have blue eyes as well as various, well documented, health problems.

All albino dobermanns are descended from one bitch Padula's Queen Sheba, born in America in November 1976.  She was mated to her son (who was also mated to his sisters) to produce more albinos.  This is not a correctly "coloured" Dobermann.

Various misguided people in the USA have been specifically breeding these dogs and sadly we have a bitch and her albino and "normal coloured" but albino factored descendants in England who are now being bred and passing on this gene to their unfortunate offspring.

People who care about our breed - not their own pockets or the novelty value of having something "different" (and defective), would not even contemplate breeding albino dobermanns. Responsible breeders look to the future and try to produce puppies which are healthy, as close to the standard as possible and will make good, reliable companions. Please remember this if you are considering purchasing one of these "rare" Dobermanns and know that in the US make up a very high proportion, compared to the numbers being bred, of the Dobes in rescue - I wonder why?  Albinos, as part of their condition, have eye and brain problems.  Dogs that cannot see properly tend to have behavioural problems and frequently aggressive tendancies as they get older.

You will also find that most reputable breeders in this country do not deliberately breed the dilute colours (blues and fawns) due to their coat problems. These colours are normal Dobermanns and do not have the sight, skin and behavioural problems associated with the albinos but it often follows that the people who breed the diluted colours deliberately also breed albinos - makes you wonder whether they care about the dogs or their pockets the most?

~~~~~

There is a site based in the UK whose owner is passing on a lot of incorrect information. There are four colours in our breed as stated above and these do not include white, however he is referring to the whites as fawns. Fawn Dobermanns have rust markings and brown eyes, noses and lips. White (albinistic) dobermanns may have sandy or light fawn coloured bodies but they have white markings, pink noses, lips and pads and blue eyes. There are many types of albinism, not just the one that appears in rodents with pure white fur and pink eyes.

Amongst other things he states that show-breeders are killing the albinistic puppies which appear in their litters. Reputable, conscientious breeders do not intentionally breed in defects, albinism is a defect with sight and skin problems. No reputable or conscientious breeder would use one of the albinistic or albinistic factored dogs in their breeding programme and therefore would not have any albinist puppies who can all be traced as descending from Padula's Queen Sheba.

~~~~~~~~~~

There is available a comprehensive web site that I would very strongly suggest you take the time to read, follow the links and digest thoroughly, whatever side of this *argument* you are on you will learn a lot from this site.

I would like to thank its creator, Dr Ione Smith DVM, for taking the time and effort to put all the information on her site together - I consider she has performed a great service for the Dobermann community world-wide.

No....please go to http://www.dobenardobermanns.homestead.com/  You will have a very wel bred dog from her...and lots of support as well...white....or shall we call them Cream Dobes....are lovely!!

Here....here Denise!!!

charley xx

Thats just your opinion others may have different opinions!!!

My biggest problem with this sort of thing is that the dogs are bred purely for colour...not confirmation and so the dogs end up being very poor examples of the breed.There is no research into pedigrees or inherited defects.As mentioned before the breeders rarely do health checks since they don't care as long as the dog is the right colour!!
Archer

Well said Archer. Some people will stop at nothing to be different - & to make a quick buck. If you really care about a breed you don't go all out to produce something which is not within the Breed Standard.

Lay dazzle. I have seen denise's white dobes and they all seem VERY healthy, also the KC do register white dobes.

Just because the KC register them does not mean that it is right to breed them, or to import a bitch of this colour in whelp, into this country.

I do not and will not condone breeding any dog for a colour or anything else that is not recognised, just to satisfy a demand for fashion and rarity value. 

That smacks of breeding for the wrong reasons to me.

No different to teacup poodles, or miniature this, miniature that, in my opinion.

Hi Ice queen
I think the point is how would you feel if it were your breed.I beleive you own IRW and Aussies (hope I'm right) ..how would you feel if someone was breeding white Aussies...just because they're white..nothing to do with breed standard or health tests. It is IMO of no benefit to the breed(whatever breed) and that is why we should be breeding.
Regards Archer

But that is how new colours come into breed standards. Dobermanns were originally Black and Tan, they now have 3 other colour varieties. How did they come about? The same with any other breed where new colours now exist.

Jesse

ALBINO DOBES - Well bred.....I think not.....

I'm appalled that anyone could deliberately breed an albino dog, with all it's attendant health problems. Also appalled that anyone would wish to buy one and thereby encourage such cruel and immoral breeding.

Once had a friend who was Albino, in all my life he was the only person I have known who's death I felt unable to morn, a short live and a very sad one.

Well that's different to the albino girl I knew as a child she had no different a life than anyone else.

Jesse

Well she was lucky, this chap was born deaf for a start so his communication skills were poor, he also had a bleeding problem and spent 90% of his time in hospitable because of internal bleeding. He also had other problems with his skin was unable to go out in the sun and no doubt others that he was unable to convey because he was almost unable to speak. May be it does effect people and dogs in different ways, but I would not risk breeding dogs like it nor if it comes to that suggesting a person with the problem should consider breeding even if that was possible and risk free. But I have no right to tell a person if they should have children, the risks involved is theirs to assess, but I do have a duty of care to try to avoid unhealthy dogs being born and express my distaste at such practice.

Not all deaf people have poor communication skills, that's down to how they are brought up and taught and I would say that that is the fault of his parents. I don't think I've ever met a deaf person who could not communicate in some manner.
There are a large number of animals that are albino sich as rabbits, rats, guinea pigs etc and none of them have probelms. They may have had in the beginning but these were all bred out.
You're correct that people should be informed as to the potential outcome of heir plans but you don't have a right to say no don't do it. Education should be the key not condemnation because you alienate people then and they will go and do it in any event.

Jesse

And what will they do if you tell them there is no problem?

I said that it is correct to inform people but condemning them does no good at all.

Jesse

Hi Jessie

Do you know whether the child you knew when you were a child had problems as she grew older - did you follow her development thoughout your life.

All the albinos I have known (probably more than most people) have at some point in their lives developed skin cancers however carefully they covered up or stayed out of the sun and had very severe sight problems.

Her mother was my piano teacher and I never noticed that she covered up at all or had any sight problems. Knew her into my teens but that was it when they moved away so not aware of what happened after that.

Jesse

I am Partially sighted since birth.  I went to a Special school for the Partially sighted, where there were a number of Albino pupils.

One was a West Indian girl, and of course she had Pink Skin and curly cream hair and African Features, but to a five year old I couldn't understand how both her parents were black.

There were also a family of 3 Albino children two girls adn a boy, but they had one non albino normal sighted brother.

There were another two or three Albino boys also in my time there.

The reason they were all at this school is that all albino's have defective sight and are photphobic due to the lack of pigmentation.  That is 7 children in a shcool population of 100!!!

Also they have very very delicate skins, and have to cover up and wear sun block, as there is a much higher risk of skin cancer as there is no melanin to protect the skin.  I am not aware of any longevity problems, but haven't kept in close touch with the two sisters that I was friendliest with.

One of the boys had severe behavioural problems, and I would imagine may have had ADHD, but it wan't recognised 30 years ago, and of course this may have had nothing to do with his Albinism.

Charley, the individual albino dogs may well be "lovely" but they are albino, not cream or white and this IS a serious health defect. The lack of melanin in the skin means they are much more prone to skin cancers and this lack also affects eye-sight.  As most of us are probably aware dogs with defective vision can have other problems - especially with perceived, or mis-perceived threats.

NO responsible breeder would deliberately run the risk of producing dogs with known health defects regardless of how "lovely", rare or lucrative the resulting progeny are.

Have looked at the site and they do without doubt breed some beautiful dogs but I have to say I dont like the whites/cream at all.  They look like watered down weirmaraners.

I can only imagine someone wanting one for pure novelty value!! Which I think is a shame when they far more natural colours are so more beautiful

Watered down Weimaraners?

At training someone brought in a fawn/grey not fawn and grey but a greyish fawn Dob. and the instructor asked me what it was, it had no markings at all and I was at a total loss to know what it was but thought it may have been some sort of pointer I had not come across before, it was not fully grown.

It's owner reckoned it was a Isabella but I thought they had tan/red markings this was not marked at all and had no pigment and the eyes were no so much blue as a very pale greenie straw, that could have been the light I suppose. Wonder now if this was a white but as I said it was solid colour, do the markings appear latter? Believe someone said the whites have yellow markings.

Hi Jackie

Albino Dobes can be anything from white to fawn with blue to goldish eyes.  Their markings however are white (feet, thumbprints on chest, muzzle, above eyes, under tail) and their pads, eye rims and lips are pink.

Fawn Dobes have tan (light rust?) markings and pigmented nose leathers, pads, eye rims and lips.

Most of the fawns are produced by puppy farmers but there have been a few blues popping up unexpectedly especially from some of the European imports

So don't know really what this was, it was about 5 months old and not a sign of markings or even shading on it, may be it was not a purebred, it looked very much like a cross Weimaraner/Vizsla with a short tail, but if you are told it's a Dob. you believe it even if the dogs looks very strange. It really was the oddest of colours and the eyes were a very strange colour and 'roomy' looking, almost like a flash photo, if you understand that, only came the once and was not at all happy shyed away from everyone and everything.

I had a look at the site too then got side tracked onto 'red' rottweilers which, if the picture was a true reflection of their colour are, in fact, brown so basically a recessive colour to the balck and tan and hence would crop up periodically!

Jesse

They are anything from brown to auburn in colour, hence being called 'red'.  With white markings on also,  all caused by a resessive gene.  Obviously a fault and they have their own health problems as well.

Going back to the Albino Dobes,  there is a very high incidence of Malignant Melanoma in these dogs.

it would appear that our concerned and warnings have fallen on totally deaf ears.

See post copied from locked thread of same name

>>hello, i posted yesterday, regarding white dobermanns. I thank you for your helpful comments (even though most of them were negative) i am still undeterred in my quest to find a breeder, I am fully aware of the skin problems etc associated with albinos. for many years I have kept albino ferrets and do know the rudiments of genetics regarding albinism.

Admin edit: Guest you need to register if you want to ask further questions <<

I have one of the few Red rotties in the country and he has absolutly no health problems at all, in fact as fit as a butchers dog.  He is registered as a chocolate and lemon and indeed is these colours.  I am aware that some red rotties do have health problems but so do the normal black and tan too.  Saying that though he is purely a pet pet and will not be breed from, just in case there are any genetic problems that could be passed on. The reactions to Red, yes I know sad, are brilliant when we are out as people dont realise what he is and will approach us for a chat where as when out with Elle our other rottie people tend to cross the road.  I would love another "throw back" though!

Lesley

Perhaps our "Guest" will register and explain the mentality that wants to have an albino dog as I would very much like to understand this.

Is it because it is rare and different (and defective), because they don't care about the individual dog or breed or something else - if something else please register and explain as I honestly don't understand why?

Ferrets, rabbits, albino rodents etc are largely underground or night time creatures and so less affected by the sun - although not many wild albinos live long and full lives. 

Think it is a case of I can so I will and sod the lot of you syndrome. After all whats a sick dog matter when I want I intened to get, brains don't come into it.

Hello guest

As an owner of a white dobermann, i'll just say dont believe everything you read about them, my boy is 14 months old now and has NEVER EVER shown any signs of aggression what so ever, he can also see very well, well enough to see a tennis ball being thrown and he goes and retrieves it, he can also climb stairs, jump etc etc etc ( all things he`s supposedly not ment to do just because he happens to be white ) he interacts brilliantly around all my other dobes, gets on great with my kids, and just loves loads and loads of cuddles.
but that advert on ad-trader is false.......there is only 1 person in the u.k who breeds ( health tested!) white dobermanns and that is denise harrison of dobenar dobermanns, and that advert was definatley NOT an advert from the dobenar kennels. ( btw denise sells all her dobes for the same price, she doesnt ask more for fawns/blues than she does her blacks/browns,)
technically speaking you could show a white dobermann, my ice goes to ringcraft occasionally and has been known to go to local companion dog shows, i could if i wanted put him in open or champ shows, but i wont.....not because i dont think he is of the correct confirmation, but because if i was to set foot in a k/c show with Ice i`d get a lot of dobe breeders up in arms, which despite certain peoples beliefs is not my intention. I will never allow ice to be bred from, he is our pet only, but he is a lovely pet at that.

Hi Kelly

Although you say you won't be breeding from Ice, who is albino you would still breed from bitch with albino ancestry which would perpetuate and spread the mutation into the Dobermann genepool.  What is the different between breeding an albino and a potential carrier or is it just breeding restrictions.

Most people who have done any Dobermann research would understand "health tested" to mean Hip, Eye AND vWD not just vWD

Thats the thing Kelly, Denise said she WAS NOT going to breed whites, but she HAS!!  how can anyone believe anything she says!!
Dawn.

Hi Dawn

I think the implication was that she was not going to breed THE albinos together - ie the littermates from the born in quarantine litter, NOT that she was not going to breed them at all.  I know that from the intial magazine interviews many people thought she was not going to breed them but if you read it carefully this is not so. :(

Then thats even worse then!
Dawn.