Anyone know how to get on top of a 1 year old GSD, who we've had since six weeks. He's always been pushy but recently has started to show signs of aggression towards the male members of the family. He hasen't bitten yet but is increasingly getting into 'stand-off' situations with me and my dad, my dad more so - standing and barking and baring his teeth for no reason. Anyone know how to cure this. We've seen the vet and beahaviourists who gave advice that didn't really work. The vet even suggested a brain modifying drug called Selgian but we are unsure of this, we don't want to change his personality because 80% of the time he's fine. Anyone got any useful advice ?

Hi Banger,
Did any of the behaviourists suggest using a NILF programme with your GSD? NILF stands for Nothing In Life Free...for this to work, everybody in your household (especially the males) need to follow it. You start by going back to square one...ideally from now, you should for the next couple of days, totally ignore your dog. You obviously still need to feed/water and potty your dog, but no petting, talking, playing or eye contact etc. The idea is for your dog to 'earn' everything he needs from now on...ie, he wants to go out to potty, then he has to 'sit' for you to allow that to happen,... he wants to eat, then he has to 'sit' & 'wait' 'til you give him the 'OK' to eat...he wants to be walked, then again he has to do something for you in order for the lead to go on. If he's been allowed on the furniture or upstairs then gate off your stairs so he doesn't have access.
This makes your dog realise that he's way back down the 'bottom of the pack'. GSD's especially, need and thrive with firm but fair leaders. Whenever they're allowed to be fed on demand, walked when they want, petted when they nudge you etc, you're inadvertantly highering their 'status' in their eyes. You might think that this is what they want but it's not and that's when you end up with dogs with behavioural problems. Your dog is now in his teenage stage, he won't fully mature until he's about 2/12 to 3 yrs so you can and have got the time to get him back on track before his behaviour stops being a threat and starts becoming a danger (not just to your family). You don't have to stop these 'priveledges' for ever, just until your dog realises that he has to earn them and not expect them for free.
A very good book to read if you can get hold of it is by Jean Donaldson, called 'The Culture Clash'...another good idea would be to take your dog to obedience classes if you have any near to you? Hope these ideas help some....'Good Luck'.....

Welcome to the forum Jacqui :-)

*blush* you found me already;) Thanks Leigh!:)

Welcome to the forum Banger :-)

May I suggest that you contact The British Association German Shepherd Dogs (BAGSD's).
They run training classes all over the UK and will be able to help assess your dog, offer advice and help you train him :-)

BAGSD: Mrs.Little on 0121 353 9872

I had a problem with my male gsd when he was getting to what i call the terrible twos stage, where he decided that he wanted to be boss, and that he would decide to start challenging me, first time was in the car when he sat in the front and when i went to grab him he turned round and gave a deep growl and showed me a nice set of big white shiney teeth, so i showed him how to shake a gsd and place him!!! in the back of the car, that night at dog club he did not look me in the eye all night. Next instance he would sit in the back of the car making no noise at all but showing every tooth in his mouth and looking straight into the mirror so i could see him, so i would get out of the car confront him, ask him what he was doing, until he backed down. My theory is always be on top of them because once they reach full maturity, that is when you have a problem, if you think your dog will back off, without biting you, then start showing him who is boss! but dont put yourself in any danger, you have to really know your dog on this one, is he just being a juvenil dilinquant, my dog weighs 40kg now and im glad i sorted him out when i did, although he doesnt like kitchen sale reps which i found out recently!!!! good luck.

The NILIF programme can work well in many situations, :) but it may be that your GSd will pester you a lot before he accepts this programme, which is normal and shows it is working!!!

It would be most interesting to know in what situations the dog becomes aggressive, for example is it when he is asked to do something? Or is it at other times? Have you been to any training clubs and so on....is he oK with women do you know? Questions, questions!!! :D

Agree "The Culture Clash" makes a cracking good if rather radical read for anyone keen on dog behaviour.

LIndsay

I have just finished reading The Dog Listener and although I heven't tried the techique in there it sounds like it may help.:)

Tried it - no good

Thanks to all who replied. We have tried the Nothing for Free method, hes had residential training, which he did well at, for basic obediance. Its just the last couple of weeks. Hes started to challenge me and my dad by just barking at us. It usually starts as him barking at his tail, (yes I know I've told him he's had it all his life and it will always follow him around) then you tell him to shh and he starts barking at you. As much as say, I'm dealing with this, mind your own business. But more seriously he has started to nip my wrists and recently has been putting more pressure on them as he does it and hes very difficult to stop and persistant. The incident which made me sit up was he was barking at my dad and getting closer to his face as he was sitting in his chair. I had to chase him off in this instance bit have never seen him THIS pushy before. He's been to training classes and was deemed as a disruptive influence because he growled at the trainer at 14 weeks and would always bark at the other dogs, so we gave up. The other thing is hes barking at people who go past our fence when in the garden and at our neighbours - we're worried they are going to make a complaint so mainly only let him out a few times a day for a few minutes. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

HI Banger

If your lad starts by barking at his tail, then at whoever tries to stop him, there could be a lot of reasons for it - my *guess* - and it IS a guess as obviously i can't see all sorts of subtle stuff such as body language etc, is that possibly he is bored and wants attention. He then thinks it is fun to make you tell him to be quiet, but feels also a conflict when you do this, hence the nipping.

If you had to chase him away from your dad, he is also getting a big reaction out of both of you which may be what he wants...was your dad just sitting in his chair, or was he interracting with the dog in any way? It seems that he (the dog) is maybe being rewarded in his eyes for behaving in this way...

When the GSd barks in this way, try distracting him - for example there could suddenly be someone at the door! Then ask for a sit and praise him. This will just take the excitement out of the situation and also show him what you DO require of him ie. a nice sit and good manners. If necessary use titbits to get his attention, and use a long house lead to enable non-confrontational control of him. So if he barks at your dad and wont' be distracted, don't shout or give him any attention, just calmly take the line and walk him away and put him in a quiet room for a few minutes. If teh dog really is impossible to control, here, and starts to nip, stand like a tree and ignore him (maybe wearing padded clothing LOL!!) as he will find this very boring and give up. dogs only do what they find rewarding at the end of the day.

What was the incidnet where he growled at the trainer, by the way? Did he growl because he was nervous, as you know GSD's can be very good actors :) and pretend to be ferocious when they are being babies!!! Was he well socialised when a pup, and do you know anything about the rest of his family at all, ie. were the rest of the litter of a good temperament?

Obviously his behaviour is not acceptable..... i would go back to the behaviourist and tell them that their suggestions are'nt working. A good behaviourist will want to help, and different dogs do respond to different methods. So it may be time for Plan B. My gut feeling is that all will be fine if you can get inside his head; personally I would advise against any sort of confronatation - not because of fear of attack, but because this could be a big part of the problem.

Also, you suggest in your post he only gets let out for a few minutes in the garden; that's IMO isn't a problem, as long as he gets lots of exercise and free running elsewhere, and also mental stimulation such as searching for toys or other work with you. If he doesn't get this, then he will find mischief including making you interact with him!

Re the neighbours, this can be a big problem with guarding breeds, and if you can, get the neighbours on your side - if they are approachable, talk to them and explain you are training him. When you have more control over him (which may require lots of hard work, but it will be worth it!) then, maybe your neighbours will agree to meet him, give him a titbit or whatever...but this will come later I think when the other stuff is sorted out :D

I do hope you are able to get this problem sorted out, you are wise to seek advice :)

HTH a bit, JMO!! :)
Lindsay

Iam sorry banger this seems to me bad temperment.I feel no matter what you do this problem is going to stay . I have seen it in gs before. I will excuse a dog not liking strangers that can be overcome, but to his own family no not on at all. to be close as that to biting your Father is very dangerous . I cant help worrying about rage as well, have you had him to vet for an opinion. however try out the advice you got from Lynsey and see how you get on .german sheps are one of my favourite breeds. I would hate to see anything happen to give them further bad press. In every breed there can be bad temperment . but it has to be bred out so go back to the breeder and tell them what is going wrong . Mari

<<<and it IS a guess as obviously i can't see all sorts of subtle stuff such as body language etc, is that possibly he is bored and wants attention. He then thinks it is fun to make you tell him to be quiet, but feels also a conflict when you do this, hence the nipping.>>>

That would be my *guess* too. Any sort of tail barking/chewing/chasing is normally done when dogs are bored...any reaction he gets off you and he's succeeded in getting your attention, but then ends up frustrated again when he gets is told to 'shhh' or 'quiet' and hence the nipping or barking (he was expecting more?). I do know that the 'sshhh' noise is guaranteed to get my lad excitable, 'ahh ahh' seems to work better if I want him to calm down and stop whatever he was doing. I know GS's can and do have bad temperaments, but I don't think I'd put it down to that just yet. I know it's hard to try to give advice without being able to see the dog in question but I can *almost* see this big galloof desperately wanting somebody's attention to play/whatever and trying to get it any way he knows how. It's funny how many people *forget* to praise their dogs for any good behaviour in the course of the day and yet always have something to say to the dog should it misbehave....the dog ends up doing allsorts of bad stuff in order to get attention because the good stuff gets ignored...hope I explained that how I meant it to come out, I think you get my drift!;) I'll e-mail you some good 'behaviour' sites that I think would be useful (not sure yet whether links are allowed here) Has your lad been castrated by any chance?.........

EDIT: here's one of the links I promised Banger, You may know of the site already or you may not. There are some really good case histories on there you could look up and the site explains the NILF in more detail......

http://www.webtrail.com/petbehavior/

I have one of Bill Campbell's books and I can thoroughly recommend it!:)

Jacqui, have a quick look at the forum Terms of Service. It details what is allowed and what is not :-) If you have any questions with regards to the ToS, feel free to [email leigh@champdogs.co.uk]email me[/email]

PS: Had a quick look at Gus. What a beautiful dog!

Beautiful dogs. Superb website.
Look forward to reading your posts Jacqui.
Bee
good timing Banger ;)

Aww, thanks Bee....I look forward to gettin' to know you all!:)

I will do Leigh, I did read them before joining (honest injun);) - just can't remember about links...Gus says 'arruff rruff' (which woofly translated means 'thankyou'!):D

Jacqui,

you are very good at describing things - the picture you painted of "the big galloof" was spot on!! :) :) :)

I took a peek at your site too - what lovely guys, and Luca has such an intelligent expression.

LIndsay

LOL Lyndsay, maybe I was looking at my own 'galloof' whilst typing...Luca has the brains for sure!!;)

Thanks Jacqui I'll have a look at the site. We have contacted BAGSD before and met one of their local representitives who did an assessment on Max - but that was when he was six months - things have changed considerably now !

We have contacted the breeder and he said "...he's still got a lot of growing to do..."

Firstly, if you paid your vet for whatever advice he gave and then carried out that advice without success the first thing to do is demand a refund, to which you are entitled in law.

You should not use any brain drug, castration or any other artificial means of behaviour modification unless appropriate tests have been carried out that confirm a medical condition exists, you should take your dog to an independent vet, which you do not normaly use, AND who is not aligned with ANY trainer or equivilent, for this purpose IF you feel there is a medical problem. Nothing in your email suggests there is a medical problem.

Secondly, you say behaviourists, plural, if the same thing happened with these people you should be even more adamant in getting your money back. Behaviourists have an increasing reputation for accepting money and getting either no results or making the dog worse, I would be interested in hearing any more cases where behaviourists, therapists or any other title someone has given themselves have charged a fee and no results have ensued.

Now, the problem with your dog and almost all so called behaviour problems in these pages are the result of one thing and one thing alone conditional on no detectable medical condition being involved.

The problem is this, you have not been to professional training classes, been educated and trained to train your dog to his individual needs. What you are experiencing is the dog has been treated in a way that he has taken leadership of the pack, i.e. your family. What you see as aggression is nothing more than the dogs way of asserting his dominance over the pack (family).

Attempting to change what you see as aggression will not in any way make the dog a non-problem, well behaved dog there will be many areas, such as refusing recall (as one of a thousand examples) where your dog will show dominance behaviour and the only way to make the dog an enjoyable member of your family (his pack) is a combined education training course.

There are motley trainers and classes around but you must ensure you (a) find a professional class (b) do not attend any which use tit bit training, this expands the prey drive and in your case, with an already dominance problem, the dog will soon manipulate you and get worse.

You will know when you have found a professional class they will give you copies of the Swedish veterinary results on the damage caused by conventional collars and leads, the German results of the autopsies on the 100 dogs which took part in the prong collar and choke chain research, as well as a run down on training aids, firework training is inbuilt into all pro training classes and the course will be educational, rewards are given in pack drive to expand pack drive and establish your dogs rank position.

Tit bits work on prey drive which exhausts and any dog rewarded on prey drive will only conform when nothing with a greater distraction happens to be around, it does not establish your dogs lower rank, tit bit training also leads to scrounging from strangers and causing a nuisance in parks etc, worst of all it encourages the dog to dominate

On the positive side. The money returned from the behaviourists can pay for your course and the breed you have, the GSD, together with most herding dogs is geneticly one of the most obedient dogs you could have, Border Collies and the other European herding dogs all rank at the top in obedience character traits.
Good Luck.

Oh dear - is titbit training really so very bad?! I have to say I haven't noticed any of the dreaded results you have mentioned.....you are entitled to your opinion of course, but please realise there are those on here who use and also heaven forbid, advocate titbit training as you call it!

Each to their own!!!!

Lindsay

Hi all again. Unfortunately Max bit my dad yesterday as he was trying to pull him away from the window while he was barking at the neighbours so things have accelerated. We have been advise about a drug called Selgian which is a non reversible brain modifying drug. From what the vet said it treats emotional behaviour (including aggression) by modifying the brain chemistry, similar to anti-depressants used in humans. Indeed it is an SSRI which is used in humans. Technical brief can be found here http://www.vetstream.co.uk/canis2/SANOFI/selgian/Pro01616.htm Because its a non reversible drug its a one off treatment for a few months, but is not effective in all cases, but initial studies look good. But the thing that worries me is it is a non reversible treatment and might change his personality.

The vet did say when he was referring us to a behaviourist (APBC) that it was something to consider if the behaviour training was not effective, but reading the technical brief it says it is to be used in conjunction with behavioural training. I am contemplating contacting the vet again in the next few days but we never get the same vet twice and am likely to get a different story :|

But on our way out of the surgery the Vets assistant said there was another treatment which a lot of people use for agressive or nervous dogs so i need to go back and investiagate this also.

It seems to me that Max either suffers from nervous aggression brought on by promixity of other people or dogs OR he just has an aggressive latency which is more harder to deal with. Selgian in particular deals with the nervous and emotional type of aggression but cannot deal with 'instinctive' aggression. I need to get some advice really.

Personally I would not want to use any form of chemical that alters the brain chemistry on any of my dogs. Whilst I can see why you are considering it personally if I could not alter the behaviour by training methods I'd rather let him go (i.e. put to sleep) than use drugs such as that. After all what if they get the dosage wrong? What if it makes him into something you dont want anyway?
Have you considered using natural calming products? I have used these with good effect on my dogs. One of mine used to destroy cages and crates when there were fireworks and thunder. Now she sleeps through the lot with hardly a grumble!

Letting him go just isnt an option for us. He's part of the family and that would be like letting go a family member, besides hes only a year old and 80% of the time he is a very affectionate member of the family. Up until a few years ago, suspicion of strangers was regarded as part of the GSD breed standard. Hes not a showing dog but its only recently the suspicion of strangers has been regarded as a fault. We will look into other alternative methods of calming.

<<<Selgian in particular deals with the nervous and emotional type of aggression but cannot deal with 'instinctive' aggression. I need to get some advice really.>>>

Eee gads!! I sincerely hope you can get the advice you need! Just reading the contra-indications for this drug is scary and IMHO not something *I'd* like to give a 1 yr old when their may be other alternatives out there that will not do irreversable damage to the dog....homeopathic/herbal remedies spring to mind...maybe a change of food? Is your dog fed a high protein feed? What other training apart from NILF have the behaviourists recommended...all dogs are different and so not all training tequniques will work the same. Maybe you have gone down this road with your vet...maybe not! Have you tried to contact somebody from BAGSD's re a behaviourist familiar with GSD's?. Have you had a look at the case histories on the site I linked to?

I can't help wondering (and I mean no offense) if perhaps your dog is nervous because your dad or other family members are nervous too? Your own and others attitudes play a big part in how a dog will react to those emotions. One thing about GSD's is they're very receptive to your moods and they will take advantage if they think they can get away with it...they're are dogs after all!

Well, all I'm really trying to say is, 'Please think very carefully before going down the Selgian road'......<insert very worried smilie>!!

EDIT: to say that I too have used the homeopathic [$ herbal remedies with great success!:) I also think that with the right training (it's just a matter of finding what works), maybe an owner who knows how to deal with a 'maybe' dominent dog? (again Banger, no offense meant but, correct me if I'm wrong that this is your first GS?) that there would be no need to have the dog PTS...JMO though!])

You're right Banger, 'suspicion of strangers' is part of the GS standard (even today)...the ideal is though that your dog trusts your judgement (you being the leader) to accept whoever you wish to invite into your house/speak to on the street and in the case of showing, the judge going over the dog etc etc with absolutely no taking over the role of leader and deciding that they need barking, growling or doG forbid biting! There are some people my own dogs consider good friends, others they will tolerate because...well, I say they have too, and that's fine by me, I don't force them to make friends with everybody!...I'd have loads to say if somebody made me make friends with somebody I didn't want to! ;)

Hi Tim,

Firstly and most simply, Max has been to the GSD academy in Norfolk, and there he did well, for them, if anything was needed to prove there is NOTHING wrong with him at all it was proved there. If anything was wrong with him they would not have been able to get results. All that is needed now is for you to know what to do to get the same rsults.

‘You said: 'We have no problem getting Max to sit, down and stay when there is food involved but take away the food and he ignores any command given’

The reason for that is that tit bit training is an amateur system, it rewards on prey drive, rewards given on prey drive do not train dogs or form the rank order with the dog as lower rank. This type of ‘teaching’ might have a short-term effect but the pack drive and consequent bond, which forms via proper training, does not occur and in an emergency situation it is worthless.

He ignores you for no other reason than he does not accept you as leader, he sees himself as leader and acts accordingly, barking and snapping is quite NATURAL amongst dogs in the hierarchy of the pack (family) the only problem here is that the pack is your family.

Training establishes you and other family members as leaders, that is why dogs should be trained in the first place BUT it is the owner who must be taught to train the dog.

One thing you might find simple to understand is this, when he asserts his dominance by biting or anything else he is REWARDING himself and no one is issuing him with a negative reinforcement or punishment, it is this lack of punishment, probably brought about by behaviourists that is the cause of what is going wrong and if it is not stopped ASAP by training it will get worse as he gets older, it is worse now than ever previously.

The attacks on family are dominance attacks and the dog rewards himself by maintaining his rank as leader, the drive which governs all this behaviour is the pack drive, if anyone does not understand drives they will never be able teach you to stop ALL problems.

You have been to many outlets and the result you are experiencing is a result of their combined incompetance and not your own.

‘Fear’ aggression shows very, very early on, the dog snaps at his shadow and almost any kind of normal noise unnerves them, very often they tremble, they run at people/dogs showing teeth barking etc trying to frighten them away or alternatively they run away at the sight of another dog or person, this is not what is happening in your home as you describe it.

There are 6 main ( they can be seperated into 12 but that is complicating matters and uneccesary) types of aggression in dogs they come under the fight or flight drive and are as follows.
Maternal, Reproduction, Pain, Fear, Defence, Dominance.

Short of observing your dog no one can say for sure which is really happening but what can be said for sure is the fact that Max does not take a blind bit of notice of you, for reasons stated and what you describe is a dominance issue, which should have been resolved long ago before the bad habits were subjected to continuous reinforcement.

I can assure you that if you find the right trainer you will have a new, enjoyable and safe dog and a pro trainer will only charge on a no results no fee basis.

This is one of those subjects that is is very difficult to give advice on over the net, unless you can see the dog and know what it is like you can so easily make the problems worse.
A similar thing cropped up on another board I use, the dog went on a residential course and then the owner was also retrained, it wasn't cheap but they felt it was worth it to cure the problems.
http://www.dogclub.freeserve.co.uk/Page14.html

I agree it is impossible to give accurate advice over the net. We all have our ideas but only those actually with Tim and Max can really help.

I do fiercely disagree with Avaunt that titbit training is amateur, that remark seems to me to come from a lack of understanding about it and relates more to lure training with food than actual motivational training with food. As for it being linked to prey drive - er, not really! I use toys a lot too, and yes, that is more related to prey drive. Dogs have been trained to very high levels using titbit training, inclusing assistance dogs, so as i have said before, each to their own but please don't just widely cast the net and scorn something you apparently know little about! Sorry to be blunt but there we go!

I can;t seem to find the bit where Max was trained with titbits, however if such training isn't working there could be all sorts of reasons....the dog may for example have been trained to respoind only when there are titbits in the hand and that is what he thinks is required. So, easily remedied, just show a titbit, then ask for a sit. When dog sits, put titbit away. Then ask for a sit - soonthedog will cotton on that he sits and may or may not get a treat...eventually you can wean him off treats altogether and just save them for special occasions. This does work as i trained my BSD bitch with this method and I am really proud at how she is coming along, and i use titbits no longer as we don;t need them. We use toys more often now and maybe this would be worth exploring with Max.

HOwever at home, whatever the dog was like at trainiing academy, it is different, and he may have reasons for barking etc that we don;'t know about. Training him to Sit may not solve the biting problem ... :D althugh it may help with control.

Sorry if i come across a bit strong about the titbit thing, i feel very strongly that it is so misunderstood and i find it hard to cope with just a blanket dismissal of a great way of training :) Having used various methods on my dogs over the years, i will now never use anyting else - JMO of course :D :D

Best wishes to all
LIndsay

Lindsay, I have to agree with you I've seen some dogs do really well on tit bit training, none of my dogs have a particularly high food drive and are just as likely or (unlikely) to do what asked whether I have food or not. I've never trained using food, just good old love and praise so perhaps that has made a difference. Ingrid

HI Ingrid

I've seendogs do well on titbit training too, but i do believe all are different and in fact my girl is much more motivated by toys than titbits now! But for the average owner who may come to class it is probably the easiest way, iMHO :)

I do so agree that love and praise are very special to a dog and not to be "sneezed" at :) and I reckon it's good to vary rewards anyway, so one time I may give a cuddle, another a tuggy, and next time maybe just a "good dog!".

I know one thing - i work well for titbits, a bit of Green and Black's yummy organic chocolate and i'll do most things :D :D :D

Lindsay

Hes been on a residential course and forgotten most of what he learned and we have kept the training up - Im of a mind this is behaviour related not training

Yes this is the first purebred male GS we have had and yes I think this is an Alpha or Beta problem, and have tried numerous approaches to this problem from many experts and no one has seemed to be able to spolve this problem or explain why Max's prey drive is so strong. I have tried some herbal calming tablets but again they didnt work after the recommended time period we stopped using them. We have also used a shock collar for barking control which Max now ignores, it worked for about two months.

Banger what do you mean by shock collar ???

Shock collar = static discharge collar

And you advocate that do you ?

We are in a desparate situation with the advice of various behaviourists not working and the only person who managed to train him recommended this type of deterrant - but like I say he now ignores the collar - I doubt it has made the situation worse - it made it better for two months, but then he became used to it. Its a very low level static discharge - almost like you would get if you walk on carpet then touch a piece of metal!

Please don't use shock colliers they are nasty. And cruel!

I'm afraid that an electric shock collar is about the last thing I would use and can't help wondering if by doing so you have made the matter worse. Whoever recommended the use of one has a lot to answer for.
When it comes to training the advice you receive is only as good as the person giving it and just because someone calls themselves Professional does not mean they are necessarily good. Professional only means they get paid and by that criteria I also am a professional dog trainer.

John

I agree with both John and Mattie this is to me abuse .I am still not convinced this is a behaviour problem with this gs. I hope im wrong I dont post to be proved right . just to give an opinion .best wishes Mari

So you think that biting my dad and drwaing blood is acceptible behaviour mari ?

If you read my other posts replying to your posts I stated worry re the Gs[dog rage] but im going to be blunt here seeing as you asked me if it was ok to bite your dad . If that was my Dad that was bitten I would have the dog pts.He was showing aggression, and he went on to bite and he will do it again . Im sorry but he is dangerous .I dont accept that in any dog .

Well I don't agree with you mari, I am not prepared to give up on Max and am not prepared to PLAY GOD with an animals life because of one mistake.

Ok everyone is telling me what not to do - but when will someone tell me how to cope with Max and his problems - does anyone know a professional trainer/behaviourist in the Tyne and Wear area, who will SHOW us some results and wont charge ridiculous amounts of money for useless advice !

I am interested in the comments in this forum. I have problems with my cross boxer and probably GSD.
My vet refered me to a behaviourist 6 months ago and she used toys and tit bits, my male dog was 9 months then.
His behaviour got worse and worse he started nuzzeling my hand for tit bits everytime he sat, if he got non he just started doing what he wanted, I was told and shown to use toys instead, the behaviourist tried it with him and all she acheived was he started jumping up on her, with each lesson he became more and more his own master, each time she tried tit bits he would just continualy jump around asking for more.
Between classes he would come if a tit bit or toy were offered but if another dog or something else distracted him he went off and no amount of enticement would get him back.
I took him to a therapist and he said ignore him when he starts looking for food or toys, I do but in turn he ingnores anything I tell him to do.
Four weeks ago I tried another behaviourist training class, she tried the same tit bits and toys things (called it distraction therapy) but my dog simply got more persistant in scavenging from me and passers by.
I am now thinking of sending him away but I have been told he will do anything for those at the school but not for me.
What are drives? I was never told anything about drives, can anyone give me advice?
What are drives?
Everytime time he

PS,
I know it sounds sill as I havew spent considerable amount of money on getting my dog to behave, but, can someone tell what a cannine behaviourist is precisly?
Mike123

That is difficult at the moment as there are no precise definitions or qualifications required to call oneself a behaviourist...... However this page may help you: http://www.ukrcb.co.uk/

HI Mike

ONe thing i feel many owners do is worry too much - my girl is now 10 months old and to be honest most of the dogs in our classes have done all of what you describe ..... they are basically manky teenagers. ;)

I know others may not agree necessarily, so this is just my opinion, but it is best to find one trainer that you personally click with, and just stick with it. We all have bad days, and most dogs will race off to play and ignore their owners from time to time. And yes many will jump up and ignore owners and all the rest! I have had it in the past with my girl, who was for quite a time far more interested in what was on the horizon than me! :(

But to me that's normal - you have to work hard, talk to your trainer, and maybe ask to sit in on some more advanced classes to prove to yourself that this particular one can train dogs and help owners.

ONe thing i do think should be included in class is dogs being called away from distractions and also each other, put on lead, and then let off again, this is often neglected and is so important IMHO.....it does take a lot of effort and work.

I have trained my dog everyday,often in 10 minute goes in the house, on walks, and at friends houses - this is the very least IMHO we should all be doing to help our dogs be well behaved and reliable.At the end of the day, it is really hard work - althoiguh i confess to doing some of it in front of the telly LOL!!!

Also if you are worried about a particular aspect, such as dog jumpoing up for food, talk to the trainer and ask what they recommend, and keep giving them feedback, and if you aren't happy keep on at them! I know you have already done this in a way, but rather than in class, wait maybe until after class if you can?

Just a few ideas anyway. Just dont worry - it's easy to say isn't it! :)

LIndsay