This afternoon I had the fright of my life, came in after shopping and give each of the mutts a piece of stewing lamb, the ones you buy in packs of 3 or 4, some bone and loads of meat. Two of them crunch the bones and eat them very quickly, the eldest takes much longer but has never had trouble before. Today we nearly lost her, luckily I always stay witth them when eating any bones, she decided to try and swallow the piece whole and failed, she stuttered around the garden with me chasing her, she then went completely stiff, blacked out and keeled over legs rigid up in the air, quickly picked her up, and rammed my hand down her throat to try and unblock it, luckily she came around and started to try and bring it back up, loads of retching and blooded froth later she seemed OK. Checked out at the vets, anti biotics etc. Just waiting now to see if she passes it OK, she is fine, its just me thats stressed out. NO MORE BONES EVER AGAIN... not worth the risk!

Sorry to hear about your poor old girl, take it these were raw bones, guess it is OK to feed if they have always had them and chew without swallowing whole.

Yeah I had a simalar experience many years ago with Bones, We use to give them all the time to our Corgi, until one day it got stuck in his stomach, major surgery followed. It was touch and go but he recovered... I also found out that day that many vets say NEVER GIVE BONES TO DOGS! 

My vet has told us to give Buffy big raw beef bones. We buy them from the butcher for a pound and replace them once a week. I cant see that we will have a problem later on in life as they are massive and aftter a week she is still sucking out the marrow and peeling off the stuff (it looks like skin) from the outside. Once she is bigger we will probably replace them every few days.

Debbie

Debbie - your pup has had the same bone for a week? It's not recommended because of the buildup of bacteria. If people want to give marrow bones, its best to take them up and dispose of them after the chewing session. I dont feed bones at all, as even raw marrow bones splinter. :(

Hi KathyM,
  Just wondering how your dog's teeth stay clean then?  My dogs are on half dried complete, and half Naturediet, and their back teeth are quite brown.  Brushing doesn't seem to help, or maybe I didn't start it soon enough!  Been having a go with chicken wings this week.
  Hilda

Hi Hilda
I use Logic for my pets (enzymatic toothpaste that breaks down plaque) - it works even better with brushing. There are also other chew treats/toys on the market. Nylabones are said to be excellent - sadly Ruby doesnt like them (old dogs did).
Ruby also has had rawhide chews in the past, but we stick to the ones made of chopped up rawhide rather than whole pieces, as they're less likely to cause a choking hazard. Also cant stand the horrible coloured ones - when are they going to realise dogs are colour blind and the colourants are purely for our viewing pleasure (and believe me, green or red poo is hardly a pleasure to view!!)? *lol*
Saying that, I've read some worrying emails about the quality of rawhide, so shall be sticking to NatureDiet and Logic from now on (luckily it does the trick for Ruby, her teeth are sparkling) :)
Take care
Kathy
xxx

Hi Kathy, rawhides are bad? Or you meant the coloured ones? I have gotten my pup a brown one. She likes it from time to time and I give it to her when she needs to calm down in her crate. And when I come back she is chewing it on the floor or even worse pulls my sweater out of the closet and lays on it chewing the rawhide stick. Have you noticed the funy smell? To me it smells like vomit... Are there any good ones that dont have that strong of a smell, but my pup seems she does not mind the smell, and I think the stinkeir for her - the better.
Also is NatureDiet available only in UK? I cant find in USA. I found Natural Choice here and my pup ate the whole cup without even me adding some cooked meat to it.
Alina D.

Just like to add the other purposes of giving large recreational bones. Besides cleaning the teeth it also excercises dogs jaws, shoulders, neck & most of their body muscles. At the same time as doing all those things the dogs are excercising their brain & using a lot of concentration as to how to get the last juiciest morsel of meat off the bone. :)

Christine, Spain.

Alina - if you email me, I can send you the info on (its in email form, so can forward it)? It's a bit too long to post on here :D

Links:
http://nmnm.essortment.com/rawhidechew_rbzt.htm  Dangers of rawhide

This link goes into the dangers of raw food (I am on the fence before people start!) but it has very true information on bones/their risks/bacteria/GI perforation, which are the reason I wont do BARF.
http://www.mybluedog.com/rawmeat.html#table

Hi Kathy, I have noticed that when I fed my pup raw beef, it was done only twice, she had a horrible diarrhea. So the first time I thought it was from the shot the vet gave her at her first check up, that coincided with the event of me feeding her raw beef, but the second time I was sure that my pup does not tolerate the raw beef, even though she likes it a lot. Now I give her only cooked meat, well some times, and most of the time I mix it with her dry food. I tried giving her Bil&Jack brand (asked my vet she said it was good, and did not need any extra vitamins or minerals, she also mentioned, interestingly enough, that if I fed my pup Pedigree or "Chow something" than I would have given her some extra vitamins) and now I mix Bil&Jack with Natural Choice. My 3.5 months old pup (I thought she was younger until yesterday I counted the weeks from day she was born) prefers Natural Choice better than Bil&Jack. And I also give her some carrots, cabbage, yellow/red peppers and asparagus, she even ate some beets. I love beets, I think she tries to copy me. Whatever I eat she'll eat. From fruits we only had apples and pears (fresh ones of course), She did try to sneak out of my hand a banana and she gobbled down a little piece anyways, little stinker.

I read the articles in both links, I think I came across one before, when I did some research about rawhides. God bless Internet (Just kidding!!!) - don't have to go to the library, just punch a few words and it gives you a whole picture. I have never tried any BARF diet but I will take a look at what they offer and see if I agree with them or not. From my experience my pup did not do well with raw beef so far. And I will not feed her raw meat again. Thanks again for the links, it was very informational and educational.

Alina D.

Your dog may well have a food intolerance/allergy to beef not necessarily anything else.

beets are high in oxalic acid something to be careful about.
Pepper are part of the nightshade family which should be avoided if dogs have arthritis
And Cabbage is a cruciferous vegetable again which should be fed in very small amounts.

Hi Tohme, of course it is not the main dish for my pup to eat veggies and fruits. It only happens once or twice a week  in very small amounts. But thanks anyways. I will know now better. So are carrots ok? She likes them forezen as well. I think they help her with the mouthing at 3.5 months. What about asparagus?
Alina D.

Are you in the States Alina_d?  I've never heard of Bil & Jack and I'm very surprised that any vet in the UK would advise feeding extra vitamins in addition to any commercial 'complete' food because they are supposed to be just that - complete (some vitamins can cause health problems if over fed - Vit A and possibly C if I remember rightly)

Vitamin C is perfectly okay in quantity digger, because it's water soluble, and any excess comes out in wee. Most breeds of dog synthesise their own. It's vits A and D which are dangerous in excess because they are fat-soluble, and the excess is stored in the liver.
:)

Just what I was going to say - even vet recommended Vit E and C for Ruby :)

Hi Digger, here is the link of Bil_Jack dog food. I have  GSD and my husband did some research ont GSD foods, so this is what he came up with http://www.bil-jac.com/store/dogmain.asp
My vet thinks, and perhaps believes, that Pedegree is not sufficient with vit. and minerals, so she just said that if I had fed my pup Pedegree brand I would have given her some additional vit-s and min-s. By the way my friend  has a boxer, girl. She was brought from Lithuania, and you know, there, nobody bought commercial food, they made their own. So living here for two years and my friend thinking that Pedegree is the best (she saw add on TV), she was buying her dog this brand and over two years the dog has developed a horrible horrible allergies. Her fur was scaly and dull, and some of it was falling out, her pawes were pink from allergies, and sometimes bled, probably from biting it because it itched. But when I suggested her to change the brand and she did, the improvement was there in just two weeks. Her feet stoped from bleeding and being pink, she is not itching any more and the patches of lost hair are growing back. I was surprised too. She looked much happier too. She now feeds her Natural Choice. My pup actaully tried it at her place and she liked it a lot, so I am mixing the two brands now (NC and BJ). Just again from my observation.
Alina D.

When we picked my older dog up from Battersea, he had really brown teeth. The vet said that he would have to come in and go under a GA to have them cleaned. However a friend said give him marrow bones and his teeth were completely clean within a few weeks. Both dogs have lovely white teeth now. As someone said, chicken wings are for nutrition rather than teeth :)

Daisy

Mine have old bits of bones lying round for quite a time - can't remember the last time mine had a bad tummy :)

Daisy

Stewing lamb is generally neck meat - which means the bones are lots of small bits with sharp bits - it not recommended sort of bones for dogs......

Every vet i have seen has told me never to give bones as it is "the major reason" for surgery when the bones get stuck in the throat or stomach BUT i still give my dogs bones as they love them so much,they are both under 6 kilo so they dont have the jaw power of some of the bigger dogs,they hardly put a dent in a marrow bone :P i wonder if the size of the dog makes a difference?some of the bones  my guys get are nearly as big as their heads :D

ouch, sorry to hear about that, must have been quite a shock.
a few weeks ago I asked about food, which of the commercial ones are better etc, and
said something like "please don't mention BARF", well I've since switched to raw feeding,
and my nearly 4 month old pups now work through a chicken a day each, every last bit of it,
takes them half an hour to eat half a chicken,
used to take one of them under 30 seconds to finish a big bowl of kibble (not kidding),
and he gave me choke scares on kibble, nothing from the feared chicken yet, he actually
chews everything now, only time I watch with extra caution is as they approach the finish,
the last bone always worries me because at some point they must think
they don't need to chew anymore and can swallow the last bit,
but so far so good, and it seems like its bye bye Hills,
I hope I never go through what you've just been through, the minor kibble scares
were bad enough, but like I said before this particular dog inhales anything small enough,
not anymore, nothing is small enough ;)

Hi Taariq

I think a whole chicken every day for a pup *may* be too much meat?

~~~~~~~~

I have had operations on dogs for blockages after eating kongs and marrow bones, I think 99% of the time these things are safe for most dogs but in rare cases something goes wrong.  Just like for years my dogs have run along a paricular path in my garden but in November Rio ran along it, slipped and broke his leg

Hi Christine

I also thought so, thats why its 1 chicken and not 2, I read that 10% of
the puppies weight is the norm, the chickens I buy average 1kg each.
oh maybe you're talking about the bone to meat ratio?
well I thought the idea is to get as close to a complete animal as possible,
and start with chicken.

PS Apologies for hijacking the thread, if the discussion continues
I'll start a new thread

Hope your dog will be OK H/Staffy :) but you know 2 of my dogs have had emergency surgery after a)swallowing a sock & b)swallowing a small piece of plastic & then Sweepy having bloat after a chicken carcass just a few mths ago, how many dogs do we read about on this board that have done the same thing & passed them thru without any bother? I`ve heard of dogs choking after raw hide chews, theres dangers in just about everything & she was so lucky you were there with her when it happened :)
I`t wouldn`t put me off the raw diet tho & like someone else has said, it could have been the type of bones she had.

Christine, Spain.

Hope shes ok today Ged :)
lel

Thanks folks she is fine today, its just me, still keep fussing her. Still cannot get over how fast everything happened, ah well got lucky this time.

Just a thought about the blockage in her throat... would the fact she went rigid and keeled over with a hefty thump, which I imagine cleared the airway, possibly be some sort of reflex/survival instinct,
or just goodluck?

Lord that's scary....I am so glad she's okay. No bones is the rule here too; nothing that serious, thank goodness, just a slight hair raising moment a good few years ago was enough to convince me NO BONES.

Karen   

I feed bones...chicken wings occasionally but otherwise all bones have to be BIG so they cannot fit in the mouth..never mind swallow whole
Archer

How do they eat them then?

Like people have said on here, there are risks in whatever you do and whatever you feed.  I feed raw meat and bones and had a scare once when my biggest dog (11 stone) swallowed a whole chicken drumstick, it got stuck and we managed to finally get him to bring it back up. 

If you do a search on the Internet you will find information about the Heimlich manouvere for dogs, just in case it happens again or for anyone who may be faced with their dog choking on things - toys, socks, bones etc.  It is very scary but it was clearly a one off.

Try feed bigger bones that they can't eat in one go, but it's so good to feed them raw meat and bones that you shouldn't be put off by the experience, even if it was very scary.

As for dogs eating old raw bones that are smelly and 'off' I wouldn't worry, although you should obviously be careful if you handle them or you have young kids around.  Dogs in the wild bury bones and half eaten carcasses and dig them up and eat them when they are really stinky.  Although our dogs are domesticated they still ahve the digestive systems to cope with raw and rotten meat - that's why as someone else said, they really won't have any tummy troubles by eating rotten meat or bones - they're just not very nice around the house!

Jen

Can I just point out that the Heimlich manoeuvre is for choking only and not for people to use if their dog actually swallows something? It's also an emergency procedure, and I would suggest that it could be harmful if therre's a splintered bone in there, but obviously if your dog cant breathe at all, its a case of weighing things up.

tohme
the intention with recreational bones is for the dog to chew them for the purpose of cleaning teeth etc not to eat them...although they obviously do eat some of them in the end.A large knuckle or shin bone will keep a dog busy for hours...and I can't imagine any dog swallowing something the size of a large grapefruit.
Archer

I realise this; you confused me when you mentioned bones in the same breath as chicken wings rather than differentiating between RMBs and recreational bones :D

Sorry to hear about your scare.  Must have been frightening.  I'm pleased it had a happy ending but it's not good to put your hands down the throat to try and dislodge any obstruction as this usually pushes it further.  First Aid can be used on dogs as well as humans and it's best to get it out using gravity or first aid techniques.  Still, all's well that ends well.

Doctor Joe :D

Hi Dr. Joe
Just curious, in case anything happens to my dog, what kind of first aid techniques (gravity as well) you are talking about? Would love to know in case of emergency, what would I have to do?
Alina D.

There's the heimlich maneouvre which works on dogs as well as humans but is NOT recommended if you're not sure of what you're doing as it could damage the spleen if done in the wrong place.  Everyone should know basic first aid (including kids) and they teach you the Heimlich nowadays as well as other ways to unblock including the very scientific whack on the back.

This is the end of the  public information announcement

I asked the vet about the Heimlich maneouvre and he was hesitant, pointing out it is equally risky and could cause serious internal problems. My problem was the dog was unconcious so it was a extreme situation and worth the risk of trying to clear her throat. If I was unlucky enough to be in that situation again he suggested a pair of long nose pliers ( I have a pair of 6" forceps I would use) to try and clear the blockage, sounds dangerous I know but probably the route I would take as opposed to trying to figure out how to do the Hmch/man on a dog, never mind a collapsed dog and me in a state of near panic.

Again, the heimlich manoeuvre is for choking on objects not for any bones/FOs stuck or swallowed.