Ive just taken Toby out for a walk and this very snappy jack russell came running up to Toby teeth showing and tried to bit him, Toby was on the lead the jack russell was not, the owner did call there dog but it didnt respond at first, Toby loves other dogs he just sat as i told him to and ignored it, im so proud of him, the only thing is my first reaction was to get this dog away from Toby, im lucky i did not get bitten myself, it made me very mad Toby has always been very friendly with other dog and i dont want something like this putting him of,
has anyone had the same trouble if so how did you cope with it,
Heidi

This happened to Bradley with another male Boxer who pinned him down by his throat and shacking it just as we entered the park.  My instant reaction was to pull the other boxer off of him,  so I did. I was stood there with Bradley and this other dog at arms length held by the scruff of there naps growling and bearing teeth.  Wih the owner standing infront of me going 'Wow aren't you strong.  I usually let them sort it out amongst themselves, don't worry our insurance will pay your vet fee's,  theyve done this several times without a quibble'.  Anway to make things worse this dog did not have a lead or a collar and I had to rely on the cheery owner to restrain her dog.  In hindsight I probably shouldn't of done this but it was my first reaction to help Mr B,  I could not stand by and let this dog rip his throat to shreds.

Hi Emma, that is terrible, whether they are insured or not you dont want your dog hurt and in pain never mind how it would effect them after such an attack, i would have done the same as you anything to protect my dog, and if that dog has done it before why doesnt he do something about it, instead of standing back and ignoring the problem, people like that should not be aloud to have a dog,
Heidi

Hello Heidi
I got something like this yesterday when I took Prince to the park.  He is in his adolescence stage at the moment so although he likes to play fetch he drops it about 2 feet in front and then dances round you his recall has gone to pot, because of this i have a long line on him so I can real him in.  Well he was dancing round me waiting for me to through his ball when this staffie cross raced across the field at him barking and lunging and trying to bite him I reeled Prince in closer he did not understand this as either dogs want to play or usually ignore him.  The owner came walking up and clipped his dog on his lead saying it was my fault for having a dog on the lead because it was well known fact that dogs on leads make dogs off leads attack.  I was Astound. All my sympathy
Jane :D

I get this all the time - I keep my dog on the lead and keep my distance from other dogs as he is just learning to accept other dogs and goes for them whether he is on or off the lead.  But somehow its always my fault when other people's dogs run up to mine off lead and of course he goes mad.  I usually ask the owner to take their dog away but its always "why should I put my dog on the lead just because yours is a nightmare".  Well I agree up to the point that my dog isn't interfering with theirs in the first place.  If the off lead dog isn't right up to mine, I can now make him sit reasonably quietly and try and distract him, but if they run up to him then he loses it.  I'm just trying to avoid other dogs at close quarters until my training methods have improved.  I actually get quite scared myself when I see big dogs charging across the field towards me.  I never know whether to run or just stand still and see what happens.

CG

I get fed up with out of control dogs that owners have failed to restrain (or train) bothering mine.  It is extremely rude and the owners appear to be oblivious to the possible consequences not only to other dogs but their own.  It does not appear to have occurred to them that your dogs (who may well be on a lead) may be on a lead for a purpose because they do not LIKE dogs, least of all ones who hurl themselves at them when they are not in a position to escape etc, or perhaps they are convalescing from an operation etc or that you are perhaps training them to stay with you and ignore other dogs.

The familiar refrains of "he only wants to play, he is a rescue, he does not like dogs on leads" only serve to demonstrate their complete lack of resolve and ignorance of extending to others the courtesy they would expect to themselves.  I am sure if my large, very fast, very strong dogs were allowed to approach them and their dogs in similar fashion they would have a different attitude!  I do not.

No amount of reasoning appears to work and therefore I have resorted to a stick.  This appears to focus the minds of recalcitrant owners re their nearest and dearest; and whilst I do NOT hit the dogs with it (apart from one or two occasions when they were very nasty) it has resulted in the regular dog walkers in my area exerting a higher degree of control over their animals than formerly.  I will NOT have my dogs temperament or indeed physique spoiled because a lot of owners have no recall, stop etc command.

My view is that if you cannot control your dog then don't own it; and if you cannot control it off the lead then don't take it off until you can!

Nicely put. 

Tohme,

"My view is that if you cannot control your dog then don't own it; and if you cannot control it off the lead then don't take it off until you can! "

Exactly.  An aggressive dog should be kept on a lead anytime it is in a public area - end of story.

Stacey

I have dogs who are freindly with other dogs and well socialised and they often meet snappy ones who are not.  In my experience my dogs cope much better with the situation if I don't interfere and without the confines of a lead.  I'd just hurry them along and leave the nuisance dog behind or if it insists on following I wouldn't stop mine from telling it to p*** off.
Sally

Sally, do your dogs actually approach dogs who are on leads? Because that's not fair if they do.

People spend a long time trying to teach their dogs to accept the presence of other dogs, and being approached by another is a terrifying experience for some. If the dog on the lead then barks and/or lunges, and the friendly dog retreats, it might have only taken a few seconds but you've just reinforced the dog on the lead for using aggression, because it worked to keep the scary other dog away.

Allowing them to sort it out is one thing, and if they are approached by another dog and tell it to leave them alone without being aggressive then that's fine too, but to allow an offlead dog to approach a dog on lead is NOT acceptable.

One of my dogs is extremely friendly, the other's a nervous wreck so I can see both sides of this. A couple of weeks ago my friendly dog went charging up to a springer on a lead and I was absolutely mortifed. Both dogs were friendly (I think the springer was just on a lead because of a bad recall, judging by the way when he was let off the lead he came charging back and played with mine, I had to get my dog in a sit stay so the owners could catch theirs), but I'd left it a second too late and by the time I called him he was almost there and wouldn't come back straight away. I accept that situations like that happen, and I wouldn't be annoyed when someone else did the same thing with my other dog (even though it would have awful consequences for us) but what I get really annoyed about is the people who don't make any effort to stop their dogs approaching.

Whether your dog is friendly or not, it's part of responsible dog ownership to ensure it's never a nuisance to anyone or any thing, and for any reason.

Jo

Hi
My 2 elkies are walked at a country park every morning.Asa is off lead and will on the rare occasion approach another dog but stops about 10 ft away.If the dog then approaches in a freindly manner he says hello if not he turns tail and runs..most of the time he totally ignores all other dogs and people.
Kasper however is 'over-friendly' and wants to greet all dogs.I therefore keep him on lead and although he is allowed to greet other dogs breifly it is under strict control.
However a couple of days ago an off lead collieX came up to Kas and stood over him snarling.I stood quietly till the owner came up and she said'I daren;t touch him or he'll go!!!'. At this point the dog attacked and Kas retalliated.I called him off and he turned away and started to come to me....the other dog then went in again...so in the heat of the moment I hit it with the end of the lead to distract it.The owner than went mad at me and said she would report me!!I told her to do as she pleases since her dog was off the lead and out off controll not mine and I was only defending my dog!! People make me soooo mad ..they think that their dogs have a right to run around making other peoples lives and their dogs a misery.This woman obviously knew her dog was nasty and yet lets it run free...its not on
Archer

Hi Jo, Please be assured that I don't allow my dogs to approach dogs that are on a lead.  And when they are on a lead I don't want other dogs to approach them either.  I am in the very fortunate position of having enough land so that I don't have to go out and meet Joe public if I don't want to.   However we do meet lots of dogs at our place.

I work with dogs that have problems with other dogs and I couldn't do it without my dogs.  They are very good at what they do because I have never inhibited their natural behaviours.  Please don't imagine that we just let them sort it out, that isn't how it happens.  They show dogs how to chill out, how to keep your head down, sniff and how to be a dog.  They teach dogs things that we or their owners never could.  So if we were being pestered by a snappy dog when we were out I have every confidence in my dogs being able to tell it to go away without resorting to violence!!

Sally

Didn't think so Sally, I just need to rant about the other people that do that sometimes!!
Your dogs sound like real stars, I'm you're rightly very proud of them. Please give them an extra biscuit from me!

Jo

Wow  seems everywhere people are having the same problem with off lead dogs approaching your own dog on the lead.  Where I walk Caleb in a local big park I go out of my way to avoid other owners and dogs off leads, fortunately it is a big enough place with lots of walks to avoid people and change direction.  I always shorten his flexi leave and lead him away from other off leads dogs.  and if they come over I walk away telling Caleb to "leave". 

When its people I know with their dogs I let hin do a controled "hello".

I am very wary I must admit, I much prefer to do my own thing with my own dog.

Being considerate appears to be out of fashion whatever your doing. People who are trying to train their dogs and get caught out I have loads of sympathy with - met one this morning with a young rescue dog she has had for a month and is working on his recall. A very friendly boy, no idea about manners as yet and reminded me a lot of Morse at the same stage :D Owners who annoy me are those who persist in denying they have a problem or who refuse to train/socialise their dogs. Funny how small dogs seem to get away with assault and battery while large dogs are demonised for even looking at someone else. Morse and I enjoy a  relaxing solo walk  but I know its not the whole answer as we have to meet others/train with distractions eventually.

My Ragga has a crap recall no matter how I try. When she was younger she was great until she got to about 18mths.
I don't let her off lead, also she has OCD & arthritis, among people as even though she usually ignores them they are terrified of her size. (Mastiff).
What I wanted to say is it's not always dogs that are a nuisance. The problem I have is people. They either tattoo themselves against a wall as we pass, making Ragga think she has done something wrong, or come up without asking to stroke her.
She is friendly but gets a shock when people just make a grab at her. When she jumps they think she's nervous but for all she knows they might want to harm her.
As it is we live in a small village so other than the tourists most people know her now and approach her properly.
There is one way I have found to stop people doing this. I just take the Bullmastiff out with us.
By the way I don't let my JRT's off lead either as although they are quite friendly I know how scared I was before I owned them.
It always seems to be a JRT or something similar that will come up and act aggressively. They just don't realise how small they are.
D4wn
When a small dog comes at one of mine I'm always scared that if I try to stop it I might hurt it whereas a bigger dog I don't mind having to defend my dog. Please understand I would never want to hurt any dog but sometimes needs must just to protect your own.

About 6 months ago I was in our local park walking Jasper and my kids.  As soon as I entered the park I saw a staffy running round like a lunatic.  Her owner was standing by a fence talking to a mate and when she went running up to him he just kept sending her away.  I kept Jasper on a lead and the owner actually sent her towards me shouting "Go see".  I sent my children on ahead and told them that no matter what happens they were to keep going.  I walked as fast as I could out of there as she came running towards Jasper basically being a nuisance dancing around Jasper and me showing her teeth.  It was when Jsper turned around and gave a warning growl, which I had never seen him do before or since, that the owner called her back and put her back into the car.  I very nearly said something but thought better of it.   

If there are other dogs in the park I never let my pair off the lead.

I have a large and very fast retired racing greyhound and seem to be very lucky by all accounts.  I don't have enough space to train him in my garden so the the only chance I have is in the woods where we walk. I always let him off the lead as he loves to run and chase the squirrels but I practice his recall on a regular basis. Greyhounds are notoriously hard to re-train so it's taking a little longer than I'd hoped.  However, all the other dogs that walk in the woods (with 1 exception) are fantastic and don't mind him racing over to see them.  It seems that in our woods, off lead dogs are fair game and on lead dogs are to be avoided but none of the dogs are on the lead so it really doesn't matter.  We all know each other and all the dogs get on well together and play nicely!  However, the 1 exception is a nasty lady who shouts abuse and has hit my dog several times for no reason.  The last time she hit him, he was only sniffing the bushes and she waited till he wandered over to where she was standing (next to the bushes) and then gave him the hardest smack I've ever seen.  My dog had done nothing wrong, her dog wasn't anywhere to be seen but she still deemed it necessary to hit him so hard saying that he was aggressive.  He's the least aggressive dog I know and think that sometimes other dog owners should be kept on the lead and their dogs let off!!
My dog was also attacked just before Christmas by a very large Xbreed and spent 2 days in the hospital.  The other dog ran accross a main road and came straight at us and launched himself right into Wizard. We were on the lead as were walking near the main road and I think all dogs near roads should be on the lead. The attack hasn't made Wizard anymore aggressive but I'd certainly strike out if he was attacked again.  Any dog that attacks without provocation, should either be controlled at all times or wear a muzzle at all times. 
I hope all the other dogs from this post that have been attacked have recovered. 

I think if anyone hit my dog there would be hell to pay. Hope you gave this woman a piece of your mind.

same hear emma im very protective over my Toby,
Heidi

I have never ever put my dogs on the lead except if we are going to the vet or near a main road,i have never taught them recall as they learnt from the age of 8 weeks which is when i started to walk them in parks to stick near mum,they have never lost that.my heart goes out to the dogs i see everyday at the park who are held on a short lead by their tense owners,i feel so sorry for those dogs that cant run and stretch their legs.The park i go to is a designated off leash area by the river,i think if people want to go there then they must be prepared to have dogs off leash come up to say hello to their dogs,i go there so my dogs can socialise and play with other dogs(i have 3 shih-tzu's)Nearly everyday i have BIG dogs come running towards us at full speed,it can be a bit scary but i dont mind as thats what dogs do,our pets have enough rules and regulations enforced upon them without having their daily walks regimented as well,when i take my dogs on their walks i beleive it's THEIR time NOT mine,i follow them and let them pick which trail they want to follow,i stop when they stop and i rest when they want to have a rest,iff people come out for the sole purpose of training their dogs then they should go to a designated ON leash area,every dog should have free running time at least twice a day every day,i know there are those people whose dogs dont have very good recall but surely there are places around with fences or they should be going to obedience school,then there are the anti-social dogs that bite,there are a few of those where we go but their owners put muzzles on them.Most days i come home with mud all over me from other dogs who have jumped up on me to say hello,whilst it may be annoying it is to be expected when you go to a place where lots of dogs frequent,i guess the bottom line is i hate to see dogs on  leashes when there are so many running around them off the lead,it is a known fact that dogs are more aggresive when they are on lead,it is their fight or flight instinct,iff they cant run away then their only other option is to fight.ALL dogs look forward to their walks,i say let them be dogs for the short time they are allowed out and keep the rules and regulations to training classes on the owners time not on the dogs.There is always a flip side to every debate and this is mine :)I will always be tolerant to dogs,like one of the above posters said some owners should be on the leads!

My dogs are very rarely on the lead either however I certainly do not want my dogs thinking that they can go and greet every dog they see, I make the decisions in our relationship!  I have no idea if other dogs are aggressive, nervous, are wearing half or full check collars (which can be potentially dangerous if another dog gets a toe/ear caught in it during play) or if the owner has control over their dogs. 

My dogs do NOT necessarily stick close to me as they are a hunt, point and retrieve breed and therefore I would have to walk a considerable number of miles per day myself for them to get the exercise they require :D  And I, like you, want them to be free to exercise their natural instincts to a degree; however this would not include bombing off to bother other dogs or people.  In the UK we do not have "off leash/on leash areas" as a rule; we are lucky that we can exercise dogs in some cases in thousands of acres of open land.  With this freedom comes a responsibility - to other dogs, walkers without dogs, children, wildlife, livestock etc etc; therefore it is imperative that dogs are adequately trained and controlled in order that they avoid making themselves a nuisance or even a danger to others.

The walks are far from regimented!
Well they are hardly walks as mine zip about the countryside like exocet missiles and cover many miles per day outwith road walking and specific training exercises.

I certainly do not want strange dogs jumping up all over me and neither would I allow my dogs to carry out this behaviour; it is extremely rude. Just as I would not expect other children or adults to bother me or I them!

The rules should apply whether or not dogs are on or off leads. 

Whilst it is true that all of us have occasions when our dogs are not as obedient as we would like them to be this is far different from the daily chaos in which some dogs are allowed to conduct themselves.

Letting all dogs off to "socialise" would be lovely IF all dog owners were sufficiently responsible and knowledgeable and IF all dogs were well trained and sociable.  However this is and never likely to be the case and so prudence dictates that we exercise discipline.

I've read all of your post dogluver and I agree with a lot of what you say but I need to keep my dog on a lead as he just attacks other dogs if I don't and I wouldn't be happy if someone else's dog attacked mine.  Obviously I need to take my dog out and he's progressed from having to have a muzzle to not needing one and slowly learning that other dogs live on the planet too.  I'd love him to be able to run around off lead and be happy and sociable but at the moment that's just not him.  It doesn't bother him that much although he prefers to be free (when there is no one else around) and he'd rather go for a walk on the lead than not go at all.  I live in an area where there are limited dog walking places and I don't always have transport to take him further afield so we have to make do.  Unfortunately there are a lot of people here of the mentality of "look at me I've got a big dog and I'm a hard man" and their dogs are a kind of fashion accessory and not necessarily well trained.  I'll just keep persevering with mine and hopefully he'll be off the lead more than on it in the future.

CG

I hope the peron with the Weim (not going to attempt the full spelling) who walks onBrancepeth Village disused railway line is reading and stops it JUMPING ON MY DOG (who is on a lead).  But something tells me that people like that don't need to come on here.  They know it all anyway.

I recently had a bad experience while exercising Jude - 15 month dobe bitch - I always scan around for loose dogs, so when I seen a guy with a boxer in the distance I called her back and put her headcollar on, then headed away from them, all to no avail the boxer flew over the field towards us and lay down at the side of us (stalking BC style if you know what I mean), I stopped to allow owner to catch up, started speaking to boxer but it just stared at Jude, she was relaxed and offering friendly body language to boxer. As soon as owner got within 5 ft. dog (later found out bitch) attacked her, the owner, big guy, well built, stood calling dogs name - he didnt call her at all before then - by this time boxer is over my lead biting Jude about the head and chest, I'm shouting at owner to pull his dog off and Jude was screaming she couldnt do much with her face trapped against boxers side (as her lead went under it) - he didnt move - ended up having to grab boxer by scruff(no collar) to get it off, he still didnt get his dog, just stood there staring as it kept jumping back at her. It showed no aggression to me but I'm very ashamed to say that I ended up kicking boxer under chin, he finally got dog - the air was blue with my not so ladylike language - his excuse was his bitch was in season!!! she didnt like other dogs and he didnt see us!!! I told him in a quakey voice that if it had been the other way round he probably wouldnt think that was such a hot reason - his excuse for not trying to intervene....well thats a dobermann and they are vicious......

Thankfully she only had a couple of small puncture wounds, they healed up well. Hate to say Ive resorted to taking riding crop along on walks. Angela

Sorry Dogluver, but I have to say I would be extremely annoyed with you if I met you on a walk.
Yes, walks are 'their time' but there other people and dogs in the world and you have to respect them.
Even if an aggressive dog is in a muzzle, that doesn't make it ok for your dog to approach. Just because your dog isn't going to get hurt wont undo the damage done to the dog wearing the muzzle in reinforcing it's fear of dogs.
I have a dog who is fear aggressive towards other dogs, and I'm very responsible with him and prevent him from becoming a nuisance. However, coming across people like you means that our progress is hindered by dogs coming up and retreating if he barks, which is going to increase the liklihood of him displaying that behaviour again.
Damage is not just physical, friendly but over enthusiastic and rude dogs can do a lot of damage to nervous ones.

To be honest, I'd be embarrassed to admit that I hadn't bothered to teach my dogs a recall, apart from showing respect to other people it could potentially save your dogs life.

I have to agree with you Jo C, everyone should be respectful of other dogs and their owners and I certainly dont think that dogs on leash are regimented!! SOME people may keep dogs leashed to compensate for bad/no training, but the majority are taking responsibility for problems their dogs may have and the only way to resolve socialisation probs, is obviously to be able to introduce dogs to stimuli but unfortunately dogs that are allowed to run up to or approach these only exacerbate the problem, affirming to the leashed animal that there certainly is something to worry/be aggressive about. My dogs are in no way perfect (well maybe to me, he he) but I do make sure, to the best of my ability that they never approach other dogwalkers and cause a nuisance. I have had many experiences like the one I posted above - when walking Gabriel, my dobe I recently lost to lymphoma, a bloke with 2 JRT's actually laughed when they grabbed his neck and hung on it - his skin on his neck was loose after lymph glands reduced in size - no apology was offered when I said please get them away, my boy has cancer and is on chemotherapy. I have gone on a bit and I'm not looking for sympathy by any means, but why should I  have my/my dogs recreational time ruined by IDIOT owners.

Angela 

Fortunatly my dogs never jump on people nor do they speed up toward other dogs,they always approach slowly and with caution,as for teaching recall maybe i am lucky but they always come back when i call,people often ask me how i taught them to walk by my side off leash,my only answer is i have never had them on leash so they dont feel the need to tear off in fear of being put on the leash??You guys are so very lucky to have hundreds of acres to walk on with your dogs,over here(australia)we have very regemented on leash parks and off leash parks,like i said the people who choose to go to the off lead places all have the same mind set as me,everyone lets their dogs socialise with each other,it is so easy going i have never seen any problems.
However i do agree with the poster who mentioned the big tough guy with their big tough dog whenever i see one of those approaching i pick up my dogs which can be very difficult with 3 of them :rolleyes: or when i see a pack of dogs coming my way i always call out to the owner and ask if their dogs are o.k before approaching,thankfully they ignore people who are dogless,i can understand them not wanting a big slobbery kiss :p You can always tell who the people are who dont want other dogs near theirs they usually do a big circle around other dogs,i dont go anywhere near on leash areas so i dont get the problems of my dogs going up to leashed dogs which may have a problem.It is probaly hard for you all to understand as you dont have the same on/off laws as we do here but iff you go to an off leash area you must be prepared to meet dogs face to face or else go elsewhere,people with vicious dogs dont go to the off leash areas,they stick to the other parks.
Coppergirl i wish you the best of luck with your baby and hope one day soon he will be able to run free with no problems,you sound very dedicated in trying to acheive this so i'm sure it will happen soon :)Heavensent i think it is disgusting what that guy let his jrt's do,that is definatly crossing the line,i can understand your point of view on this subject,i would have gone off at him too,touch wood we have not come accross any aggressive dogs YET!
I hope i have made things clearer there are no grey areas on this subject here it is all black and white,people with aggresive dogs know the consequences if it attacks a person or other animal,9 times out of 10 their dog will be confiscated by the council so they tend to stay away from off leash areas,arrrgh i think i have said on/off leash 50 times in this post,i am not gifted in making long stories short

Take care all and best wishes to you and your dogs.

What I  do is I keep my dogs on leads, I only take two at a time, if we meet someone with a dog off lead and they are happy for my dogs to play then I introduce them.
I take one big (bullmastiff/Mastiff) & one JRT.
I allow the dogs to meet on lead, if I think they will be okay, not just mine, I let one off at a time.
We've had quite a laugh at times, I tell people they will have to help me get mine back before I let them off.
That's why I keep mine on lead, if there's another dog to play with I have hell getting them to come right back.
If I take one at a time 'no prob'.
Try taking four 2mile walks one after the other.!!!
We don't often meet people as I time my walks well but when we do it can be funny. I often, especially when I have the Mastiff with me, come across people with little dogs who are terrified. Their dog is saying 'let me play', in 2-3mins their dog is racing round the park with my Mastiff. There is no way my girl will ever catch up. She usually ends up lying down and the little dog comes over for a kiss.
It's difficult when people think all big dogs are nasty.
D4wn

I agree D4wn,i used to have a rottie who was the biggest sookie baby,it really used to annoy me when people gave us a wide berth or they quickly picked up their little dogs in fear of Tyson eating them for lunch!But now i'm afraid i have turned into one of those people whenever i see a big menacing looking dog i call out and ask if they are o.k with little dogs,the answer is usually yes,once i got abused by this guy who said i had a gall asking if his dog was friendly he implied that i didnt trust him even tho he was a complete stranger to me!,but even tho the big fella's are very friendly they have so much weight and energy behind them that they end up jumping and squashing my dogs underneath them when they are only trying to play,i usually end up with 3 quivering dogs hiding behind my legs :D Which brings me to a sad story,my sister-inlaw has a golden retriever and one of her friends has a tiny yorkie,these 2 dogs had always been the best of mates,one day they were playing and the retriever reared up on his hind legs and landed on the yorkie and killed it there and then,even tho he was such a friendly and gentle dog they just dont know the strength behind them :(
Oh by the way D4Wn you must be one fit person i have trouble doing 2, 45minute walks a day  letta loan 4, 2 mile walks :D

Sorry Dogluver, didn't realise you were in a different country from me. It's a different situation in an off leash area, and if we had them round here I certainly wouldn't take my nervous boy there.
I think the sort of people I have a problem with wouldn't come on a board like this anyway. We all have to deal with irresponsible owners is one way or another, it's impossible for me to not let it get to me! I'm obviously too sensitve.

Really sad story about your sister in law and her friends yorkie. It must have been horrible for everyone involved. :(

Jo