NOW I KNOW EVERYBODY IS GOING TO JUMP DOWN MY THROAT AND I THINK I KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS GOING TO BE BUT I AM GOING TO ASK ANYWAY.
I HAVE BEEN AROUND DOGS ALL MY LIFE THE LOVE OF MY LIFE IS GERMAN SHEPHERDS I WAS FINALLY ALLOWED ONE WHEN I WAS 16 AND RESPONSIBLE I HAD HIM FOR FIVE FANTASTIC YEARS AND SADLY HE DIED OF A TUMOR AND BROKE MY HEART, TWO YEARS LATER SMUDGE MY FIRST DOG A JACK RUSSELL X CROSS DIED OF OLD AGE(I HAD HER WHEN I WAS SEVEN).
ANYWAY I MOVED OUT OF MY PARENTS AND THREE YEARS AGO BOUGHT A HOUSE WITH MY BOYFREIND, WE LIVE IN A TWO UP TWO DOWN SMALL HOUSE AND I HAVE BEEN PINING FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS FOR ANOTHER DOG. BUT WE BOTH WORK FULL TIME AND IT WOULDNT BE FAIR TO KEEP A DOG ON ITS OWN IN MY SMALL HOUSE (THATS WHAT HE KEEPS TELLING ME) ANYWAY WE ARE CURRENTLY LOOKING TO MOVE TO A BIGGER HOUSE AND I DESPERATLEY WANT TO GET TWO DOGS ONE A SHEPHERD AND THE OTHER HAVENT DECIDED YET. I WOULD KEEP THEM IN A KENNEL AND RUN IN THE DAY AND COME HOME IN MY LUNCH HOUR TO EXERCISE THEM. I KNOW YOU ARE ALL GOING TO JUMP DOWN MY THROAT NOW BUT MY LIFE DOESNT SEEM WORTH LIVING WITHOUT DOGS, THEY BOTH WOULD DO AGILITY AND RECIEVE MORE LOVE THAN IS POSSIBLE SURELY THATS BETTER THAN A HELL OF A LOT OF DOGS OUT THERE GET. ONE FREIND OF MY MUMS WHO BREEDS SHEPHERDS SAY THE DOGS WOULD BE FINE AS LONG AS THEY HAVE ROUTINE. PLS DONT JUMP DOWN MY THROAT ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO HAVE DOGS AND STAY AT HOME DONT REALIZE HOW LUCKY YOU ARE AND I CANT AFFORD TO DO THAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

You sound like to me that you are trying to justify having dogs! The sort of thing anyone would do if you are working all day too. So your heart is in the right place.

This is a difficult one. Are you planning to get a pup or a dog resuced or from a breeder? I am sure you are aware of how much hard work this is going to be for you and your partner?

True after a while they will get into a routine, but what about the bit before that happens?

I am a very lucky person if you can call it that, yes I am at home all the time with Molly my Boarder Collie but I would not call it lucky. I was medically retired from my job last June due to ill health I have knees that dislocate and have had many ops now I have developed arthritius. Have it in my hips and knees. I don't feel very lucky at times! But I do understand what you mean.

I think you should sit back and think some more write up a list of why you want the dogs good and bad side to it.

Your heart is saying please I want a dog.. but you sensaible side is saying hang on here, is this the right thing to do??!

You see without being rude or to upset you, I really don't think dogs should be left at home all day while your at work even if you do pop back at lunch time to walk them etc. but that is just my opion and I do not want to offend you. Or anyone else!!

What ever your decision good luck.

Julieann

Hi Sammi,

Firstly I'm not going to jump down your throat about wanting a dog, but I will ask you not to post in capital letters as it makes it VERY hard to read (also on some forums it classed as shouting!!).

The one thing that does strike me from your post is that you want two dogs. Would you be thinking of getting two at the same time or would you wanting one first and then after 12mths or so getting another one. I think the later would be the way to go. Would you be wanting a puppy or perhaps an older dog thaty's used to being left? Is there someone you could trust to let the dogs out during the day on the odd occasion you can't get home for lunch?

I can't really offer any advice about whether GSD would be ok in a kennel, there are some people on here who do this and so would be able to help you more.

You're right that being in a loving home is the most important thing for a dog and with the agility and other activities you have planned, any dog you get would be very lucky.

Good luck,

Fiona

Good luck in your search to complete your family.

With a great deal of commitment and thought, and ensuring the dogs have company and stimulation working and having dogs can and does work, it is just much harder!!!! A lot of dog people go out to work. I am one of the lucky ones that doesn't. My good friend 4 doors up and her partner both work. They rescued their first doberman from being bucketed at 4 weeks (broken relationship, and the leving partner was going to drown the pups!, my friends other half was doing work on the neighbours property and heard about this.

Tasha was raised on SMA Gold Top Baby Milk from 4 weeks old. My friend wqas a delivery driver at the time, and took the pup everywhere with her, until the weather got warm, what now? they saw an Advert in the Paper for a Dobermannn bitch looking for a good home (7 months) turned out she had been taken on by a man from someone in the pub, as they had been mistreating the pup! Jade had been disciplined by being pulled off her feet by the ears, and one ear had all the blood vessels ruptured and filled up with blood!

Now they had two pups who were company for each other, a two man wrecking crew. Other half being a builder, was able to get home during the day to see tho the girls, and with the driving job, she was able to do so at times too, or would have friends and neighbours (like me) to go in on any days when they could not.

Once adult the dogs were taken out for an hours free running (5 or 6 am!!!). Once home they had toys, chew items and TV left on. Who ever came home first would take them straight out for some road work, while thye other would get their dinner going, the dogs were fed an hour after getting home again.

These 2 are now 12 years old, and were subsequently joined by first two more (they got the showing bug after doing exemption shows), who sadly both died young at 5 and 6, after loosing the first of these they got another one 4 years ago, prior to loosing number 4.

with the two old girls getting on and the youngster 4 years old they decided they had better get a pup for him to have company ion case the oldies went suddenly and close together.

This one is 6 months old, and has practically taken their kitchen apart. New Washing Machine chewed. Wooden Panneling chewed upp and pulled off. On coming back from Crufts on Thurday she had managed to get purchase on another part of the Lino and pulled half of it up! she is taken training, and given as much time before they go to work and after they get home playing with her, as she is too young for the aforementioned excersise regime as yet!

Yes it can work, but it can be extremely hard, and eventually a lot of people do not have the commitment, that is why most breeders won't sell to full time workers, as the chances of failure for the pup are high! If you are convinced you can make it work, and have the network in place to provide the daycare then maybe you can convince a breeder.

Kenneling sometimes isn't a solution as it can cauise neighbour problems, and in all this the dog pays.

One way of doing it is to have an older steady dog first who is reasonably happy while left, be sure that the daycare is working well, and then possibly have a youngster. Look on it as similar to what you would have to do if you had a baby and had to continue to work. You couldn't leave a baby alone at home, but secondary school children can let themselves in and wait for you to get home in an hour or so!

Sorry about the capitals not used to forums! Thanks for the advice, the reason for getting two dogs was company. I am aware of the commitment as I have had dogs b4, in fact I love the commintment, I was going to get a pup because we have cats and I thought a puppy would be easier to introduce, so is having two puppies at the same time not a good idea?
The dog would get our full attention when we are home and at weekends, I just love dogs so much I wouldnt want to make it unhappy, I just wanted to see if there was anyone out there in the same situation that it worked for. If I have a dog its for life no matter what destruction it may cause thats part of having a dog so if I get one I wouldnt change my mind!
I worked with horses and dogs after leaving school and did a course in canine physcology so I do know a bit about them, but your right I am trying to justify it but im sure thousands of people work full time and have dogs. Do u think I would be getting an older one?

Sorry forgot to thank brainless, that poor puppy that was picked up by the ears, isnt that disgusting it makes me feel sick I hate some people!!!
wouldnt it be nice if the world was just filled with people like us and dogs.
But thats what I mean about my home its heaven compared to that one and thats what makes me think it cant be that bad if the dog is loved and stimulated the only downfall is I have to leave him on his own for a few hours, Im trying to put it in perspective leaving him on his own for a few hours or being abused by being picked up by his ears!!! im sure alot of dogs out there would choose me?

agree with you sammie the world would be a nicer place without anti dog people and cruel people,my friend and I decided if we can go to heaven we would prefer doggy heaven :)

Hi Sammi

I have two dogs and work but not full time. I'm also lucky to be able to work from home quite often and work flexible hours etc. Before then when I was full time I was just like you - full time and desperate for a dog. I waited 15 years before I could have dogs again.
Even now it can still be very very hard at times. There are days I have to travel and so can't get back at my usual time - then I have to look for other ways to make sure the dogs and children are catered for. My husband can come home early so that helps.

I think if you can take a reasonable amount of time off work to settle in a pup and then have help from a neighbour or friend then it could work. Personally, and I'm not jumping down your throat, if you are both full time then having dogs is too much and you could be on the road to disaster.

hth

Pam n the boys

Nice to know someone else is on my wave length mattie!
I have a new suggestion some thoughts would be nice, my mum who lives a 20 min drive away has offered to have the dog a few days a week it would mean getting up extremely early but worth it. the only thing that worries me is would this confuse the dog about where he really lives and would I be better getting an older dog say 6 - 12 mths old to fit in quicker with the routine. any thoughts??

Sammie

Increasingly, boarding kennels are taking day boarders. That could be worth checking out.

I always think it's hard to rely on friends and family, you never know when somethings going to crop up - wheras if you have a formal arrangement then it can work better.

If you went for a young dog or a puppy then having a carer could cause them confusion. A dog 6-12 months is still a puppy. Especially at the breed you are looking at. An adult dog will cope better but then you'll be looking at rescue and they come with there iwn set of problems usually and can take as much if not more settling in than a puppy.

It's a tough spot you are in. I hope you do find a solution that will work for you.

Pam n the boys

This is so weird, I posted a question yesterday - along the same lines and Kash pointed me in this direction (thanks very much Kash). I am seriously considering getting a puppy German Shepherd, we alredy have an older do (12 years) and I thought it would be great company for the puppy. But so many people have said it would be mean as both my husband and I work. My mum lives across the road from me (about 1 minutes walk!!!) and has offered to come in during the day, my mother-in-law has also offered to pop in throughout the day. But I'm still unsure - would the dog be unhappy - get confused etc.

It is a very difficult situation and must not be taken lightly, I love dogs and have been brought up with them all my life. We are lucky we have a large house with a large garden. But I'm still unsure, I don't won't the dog to be unhappy.

Donna

Hi Donna and Sammi to I guess

If you want my honest view then I'll give it - please don't shoot me for it - it's just what I honestly think.

I don't support the view that you cannot work and have happy dogs - you can, what it takes though is a lot of thinking through. Personally, I do think if you work full time then you need to think very very carefully before you do it. I know how hard it is when you want something, but dogs don't like being left for too long. The mornings are a rush and they don't necessarily get quality time then. The kids have to be got ready for school, you're gettting ready for work etc etc. In the evening there is tea to do and before you know it's bed time. You can spend the weekends doing things but the five days during the week are long and that's what will shape the dogs true behaviour.

If you can get someone it to help then that makes it better but there's nothing like having you around and I think it can cause them confusion. Personally I wouldn't do it. I would recommend that you wait until you can either finish work or work a pattern that fits better with having a dog. I have found with many things in life that when people say they'll help, they will when they can or if it's for a short period but when it's everyday, every week, then it can become a problem.

Those are my views, others will vary both ways - some believing you shouldn';t work and those who do work full time and have dogs.

I'm sure you'll make the right decisions for you - good luck

hth

Pam n the boys

One of The biggest reasons for Dogs coming into Our rescue is because people have gone back to full time work and find it hard to give the dog what they feel is his right which is companionship etc... or because of being left they are wrecking the house...But we have to look at the subject from all angles,an older dog and I mean 6yrs plus may be happy to have a small walk in the morning and happily dose off most of the day,but that would depend on the livliness and breed of the dog.
I do not disregard out of hand a person applying to adopt a dog who works full time as a lot of rescues do, but would have to find the right dog for that environment.I am lucky in that I have a lot of time for my own dogs but in this day and age most couples need to work to afford to live.
Its a hard subject to cover really but maybe an older dog would be the answer.It seems a shame when such a loving home is available.

Here's my situation. I have four dogs - springer, gwp, 2 pointers. We both work full time. I walk the dogs before work, at lunch and after work. With a great deal of commitment, it can be done. It works for us and I don't feel that my dogs are getting any less out of life because they are on their own for two periods of 4 hours. They are all working dogs and very active. They need a lot of exercise and stimulation which they get. The 2 pointers and gwp are used for counting grouse on the moors and the springer goes beating and wildoflwing and anything else that takes our fancy <g>

It works for us.

Helen

It works for me too. I have two dogs, both rescues (1 GSD 1 Lab) and they are happy healthy dogs but it does take a lot of time and committment. I'm up around six every work day to walk them and feed my horse - they get around 45 mins every morning. My neighbour checks on them in the middle of the day and lets them out for a ten minute run in the field behind my house and then they get 45mins - 1hr when I get home and a walk before bed. I adore my dogs and they are both happy and healthy they enjoy our time together and have lots of toys during the day to keep them amused and the radio on thought they tend to sleep according to my neighbour. It would be lovely to be able to be at home all day playing with them but frankly I don't have the finances to be able to keep them in the manner to which they have become accustomed and not work as I think is the case with many working dog owners. I work to pay the necessary bills and spend the rest on my dogs and my horse - hence my drastically out of date wardrobe!!! (LOL). I don't think you need to be at home all day with dogs but it does take a lot of committment and careful planning. I'm lucky where i live is doggy heaven (lots of dogs and doggy neighbours to help out - we have a rota system). What I will say is new dogs need time to settle and adjust so try and have some time off around when they arrive if you decide to go ahead with this then gradually spend more and more time away so that they are able to adjust to having less of you around during the day - I spend most of my evenings playing with them to keep our relationships good. Hope this helps.
KirstyS

My first dog used to go to day care and he loved it. It was a large farm house with a very large garden and they used to have ten dogs in total, some were boarders and others like Whiskey were there for daycare.
Its hard work but worth it. I used to get up at 6am and by 6.45am we were in the car for an hours drive to the daycare and then I would drive to work. At night I used to leave work at 6 and get home at 8pm. If I had to work late the daycare centre would hold on to him.
He was very happy there and I knew he was happy and safe. This was a rescue dog who had been badly beaten in his last home and he was very settled at daycare.
After a year I gave up work and am now at home all the time. In my area Devon there are now quite a few daycare centres for dogs!!!

Hi Sammi,
I would never start off with 2 dogs together for company. Sorce them seperately. I even go to the extent of not kenneling a pup with another dog until it is between 6 months and 1 year old.

My reasons are that, I feel a dog must learn to function as an individual before it is given the security of a pack.

Sammi, a lot of working dogs are kept in kennels full time, so it can be done. I'm not sure what happens if you kennel during the day and house at night, or vice-versa. The great advantage with kennels is that they are not getting into trouble, less mess etc, you have a bit of leeway if you're late home, and so on. Puppies around the house can be hard work, especially keeping them out of trouble, as you sometimes seem to be damming them all the time. But....I believe they need to be started at a young age, at least mine have, so I'm not sure what happens to a 'house' dog that then gets kennelled. They can also be noisy outside, especially of you have more than one, as they sometimes wind each other up. They can also get wound up by cats, birds, rubbish on the wind etc. To start with they can also be noisy until they get used to being seperated from you. What I have done is to warn the neighbours I have a new pup, then everytime you leave them they'll kick up a fuss, which must be ignored, then keep going out every hour or so, before they kick up, then extend the time away. If they kick up before you have a chance to go back out, then let this subside before going out again, so as not to give them the idea that barking gets you out there. This can be painful to do though, as it can get real noisy and there is nothing you can do about it except grin and bear it. It's the same as leaving them indoors, except all your neighbours get to hear it. I usually find this takes about a week, but what a long week that is. If you keep them inside during the night, at least half of it is less of a problem. I'm not sure what you do about toilet training though, as when they're outside they obviously do as they please, which may get carried on in the house. You'll also need to build a proper run with a kennel in which to sleep. The run needs to be covered with a sloping concrete floor and some sort of drainage to enable it to be hosed down. Another thing to consider is theft, as this seems to be getting more prevalent these days, so your garden and the run needs to be secure. It's nice to get back after a muddy trip out in the middle of winter and hose them off in the garden then put them in the run. Saves a lot of mess!!

Hi Sammi!
Sounds like you have spent a long time thinking this through (a great sign!) You are experienced with the commitment of having dogs (another plus!). You are a lover of dogs (plus again!).
I think you can handle having a dog. I don't recommend 2 puppies right away, especially if you're thinking of doing agility, cause the two pups will end up bonding with eachother more than with you. Could be done if you were home all the time though. Could get another one at 6 months. Than you will have a better idea if two would be too hard for your schedule.
My sister and her husband got a 6 week old puppy from the pound. Both work full time. They crate trained and my sister would come home at lunch. They were also off work for the 1st couple weeks. The dog is now four and doing great (rottie/lab cross)! He is part of their family and has a really great life. Now that he is older they don't crate him while at work, he can handle the seperation, because that is what he became used to as a young puppy, and was crate trained and had appropriate chew toys. They have made working and owning a dog a total sucess. Sounds to me that you could too!

Thank you all so much for your positive response, I was beginning to feel really down. It seems to me that if dogs live with commited people like us who have no option to work full time they can fit in to a routine, as long as the dog gets our undivided attention when we are at home and they recieve the stimulation they require e.g agility they can be happy, as you all have told me.
I have come to the conclusion, yes its going to be hard work but the puppy wont be left for more than 4 hours as I will come home at lunch and with all the puppy socializing classes and agility maybe even flyball!!! He will appreciate some snooze time. having a dog in my life again is more important to me than anything else and basically without one I am miserable surely too much love will be a good thing for him.
I just needed to hear other people have done it and made it work all I have seemed to hear so far is negative thoughts. I do understand people who dont agree with dogs being left on their own but surely it has nowhere near the affect of abusing or abandoning a dog would have on it. I am not taking on a puppy just because I fancy or I think it would be quite nice, I want a best freind to tell my problems to, to be the best at agility with and most of all I really miss those big kisses!!!
So thank you all for your responses it has left me feeling very positive and I know some people will disaprove but I assure you my dog will be happy.

Good luck with whatever you decide Sammi. :)
and don't forget to let us know how you get on.
JAQ

Sammi,

I have a Sheltie whom I LOVE with all my heart. He stays at home by himself whilst I work. I got him as a 12 week old pup during on the first day of my Summer Holiday, which happened to be 8 weeks long as I am a teacher. By the end of the holiday I was starting him on his own for longer periods of time. When I returned to work I kept on popping back during the day to toilet him and he was crated during the day, but isn't now. He has his own bedroom. We taped him not so long ago as we were feeling guilty and the results were interesting. He spent about 70% of the time sleeping in his bed and the rest of the time he sat on the windowledge watching the world go by. Like you we give him plenty of exercise and he comes everywhere with us all the other time during the week.
It works for him but may not for every dog.
(Anyway teachers are always on holiday so that makes things better!!)
Hope all goes well.

Sammi,

I have 2 German Shepherds and a collie, I work full time, the dogs are kept in a HUGE outbuilding cum kennel with a fenced off area right next to it that they all run about in during the day. They have toys like Buster cubes, Kongs and meat filled bones to play with, as well as wach other as they are all young and like a good wrestle!
They are given one good walk in the morning before I leave, another one when I get home and one more at night, they never get walked on lead as I live on a farm with big fields. My dogs are happy, they exhibit no behavior problems about being left, when I got my new pup I took a month to slowly get her used to being left with the dogs, one hour at a time, if you know what I mean ( luckily my two adult dogs are fantastic with her ).
The way I see it, you are going to give a loving, permanent home to a dog, there are plenty of pups out there that don't get that, and what is the point in someone being at home if the dog is beaten, or locked up or kept on a chain, or abused in some other way?
Get two pups if you want, they will be company for each other, as long as you are happy with the fact that they will be more bonded to each other, thats not to say that they won't want to play and be with you though, they will, you will just fond it a bit harder to train them.
Don't take them to your mums, its better to get them used to a set routine, you can't leave them alone for 3 days a week and have someone spend time with them the other 2, also at the weekends, its best if you follow the routine, don't spend all your time with them as they will just pine all the more come Monday.
Hope this helps, I know what you mean about having to work, I am the same, I wish I could afford not to have to, but I have to make the money to look after my animals properly, and I bet there are a lot of people in our situation.

Sammi,

I agree with Bear and the others that have supported your hopes. I have two dogs, a gsd and collie x, and they are on their own in our garden most of the day. The collie is technically my dog, and I had him from a pup. I was unemployed at the time, so i did spend a lot of time with him when he was young, although I got him used to being on his own right from the start. When he was a couple of years old, I moved in with my boyfriend and his parents and 'adopted' my boyfriend's gsd pup (about 8 months old at the time). We both worked from my boyfriend's parents house, and so the dogs were used to having people around all day long, although they spent all day outside. A few months ago, we bought our own place which luckily has a really lrage garden. I was worried at first how the dogs would take to being on their own most of the day, but they have taken to it really well. They have more freedom now than previously, as they only had a small area to play in before. I get up in the morning and do training with them and play with them for about 3/4 hour before I go off to work, then we come back in the afternoon to walk them. They come in the house when I get home and spend the evening inside with us (i'm trying to train them at the moment to not pull on the lead and once this is sorted, I'll be able to walk them when I get in from work too - I can't manage them both on my own at the moment) At the weekends we usually go the beach or woods nearby and give them a good long run. (I can't wait for the light evenings to come so that they can go to the beach in the week as well!)
I was expecting them to be really unhappy about being on their own in the day, but they have settled into their routine quite happily and both have dropped a lot of annoying habits they previously had for getting attention once they'd come into the house at night, so I'm hoping this shows they are quite happy with their new situation.
I don't really have any advise for how to deal with the situation if you get puppies, as I was lucky enough to be unemployed (if that's lucky!) when I got my collie x. Perhaps you could take some time off work to get him settled in (although as other people have mentioned, dont spend too much time with them, as they will get used to it).

I went through the same dilemmas as you before i got my collie, as I new there would come a point when I would be working again, but like you, I decided if I put my time and love into it, it would give the dog a better life than with some people.
Heather

Hev and Bear,
You both seem to be in a position to allow your dogs to have outside freedom when you are out. this will only work if there is nothing for the dogs to bark at.

If you live in a City as I do, with an Alert breed, that will bark at strange noises, or callers to your property, then with no one to tell them not to the dogs can get very noisy! Canvassers can be a real problem setting my friends Dobermans off when they won't quit ringing the doorbell, so much so that they disconected it! This is the most common reason for people to get complaints!

I leave the dogs in the kitchen, so that they can't see passersby through the living room windows, and leave the radio on swo that they don't bark if neighbours are going about their legitimate business in their gardens, and the sound of voices might tempt them to guard!

On my walks I often walk pat houses with dogs that are left out all day, and not unexpectedly some of them are no longer there after a few months, either the owners have got rid of them or the niegbours have compalined and the dogs are kept in! As I have four dogs I have even had a neighbour who dislikes dogs, accuse me of letting mine howl at night, and then it turned out it was a new dog a few houses up, but no appology!

Sorry, I don't want to argue, but both of my dogs are alert breeds (a collie and a gsd). We live on the outskirts of town, on a busy road, with neighbours close by either side and working farm behind us with workers walking up and down all day. The dogs can also see out the bottom of the garden onto the farm. I guess I may just be lucky with them, but we don't have much trouble with them barking. I actually had more trouble with them barking before we moved, when we were with them all day long. They do bark if they hear or see something unusual or if strangers call by, especially if they hear something at night (they sleep in a kennel outside), but luckily it isn't excessive. Now and again they have a few days when they will bark more than normal, triggered off by something unusual going on (this weekend for instance they became unsettled after a car crash happened outside the house in the middle of the night and were more jumpy the next day, barking more than usual at noises). But as the barking usually seems to be down to nerves, I just do a few TTouches on them and give them some drops of Bach Flower remedy, and this calms them down again. We really don't have a problem with them barking luckily and on the occasions that they do, it is usually for a good reason and not for too long. I also luckily have neighbours who all love animals. I guess if Sammi does decide to get a couple of dogs, she will have to play it by ear, but having now read a lot of previous posts on the site, their deosn't seem to be anything that can't be solved with training and time. I don't really know that much about dog training etc, but I'm sure there are also ways around barking being a problem.

I think a lot depends too on how dog friendly the neighbours are; and sadly that is just down to pot luck! :D

Lindsay

Yeah, it probably is a lot down to how friendly the neighbours are. It sounds as though Brainless has got the rough end of the deal with his.

I am a she :D It isn't too bad for me as I awm mostly home, but a lot of friends have had periods where things with one neigbour or another have been a problem. Most of them have had Environmental health 'talking' to them, and usually it comes to nothing.

When I had the particular neighbour who dislikes dog give me grief I phoned the dog warden asking what could happen, and what was unreasonable barking, as a dog has to bark sometimes. He told me that the first thing they do is send a diary to the complainer to keep for three weeks. In this they are to note the time and duration of any barking. If the council think it appropriate they will send someone with recording equipment! What has to be proved is that there is excessive barking both day and night, and usually this comes to nothing. It is not unknown for a determined complainer to deliberately bait dogs into barking thereby proving their case! The problem is if the council officer are anti dog and think anything short of complete silence at all times is unreasonable.

Isn't it Beverly Cuddy of Dogs Today who had neighbour problems complaining about smell and health hazard of her dogs eliminating in the garden, and now she is careful to ensure that any mess is cleared away as soon as it touches the ground! I don't know if this was ordered by the council or not.

Also it depends on the number of neigbours, as it isn't just the immiediate neighbours that can be affected. If I am round my friends on the end of the street and the dogs are out in the garden and someone calls at my house, I can hear them from there! I can also hear hers and know exactly when someone is at her door for any length of time, and that is with them inside, with kitchen window ajar for air!

The gardens here are a reasonable size an average of 60 feet long by 25 feet wide, if you live on the edge of town perhaps you have fewer neighbours?

I guess I am quite lucky in that I live on a farm with 3 neighbours, one of whom has a terrier that barks at anything, so they couldnt complain if my dogs barked - heh heh!
Seriously though, my dogs will only bark at things that need barked at, i.e someone at the door or wandering around near their kennel, which is also their territory, they luckily just ignore the terrier! If a dog barks all the time at any noise then this is a training issue which needs to be worked on and resolved before the dog can be left for the day, as quite understanderbly, it is a nuisance that most neighbours won't tolerate.

That is exactly it, one of my neighbours even objects to the fact that they bark when the postman arrives! My dogs sleep out (quietly) too, as there is nothing legitimate to disturb them.

If you are not there, short of making tapes you cannot disprove that your dogs are barking too much, some people have practically zero tolerance, and most dogs of my aquaintance will bark say for a minute if not stopped! If you happen to get a lot of callers while your out then there will be lots of barking opportunities is all! Judging by the problems a lot of my responsible doggy friends have, you are really lucky with your neighbours :D

What I am saying is that it all depends on the circumstances how close the neighbours are, how echoey the garden (due to other buildings or walls), you cannot rely on being able to keep the dogs outside in a lot of circumstances because of noise nuisance, be it real or imaginery!