Hi i'm new to this Forum, and i'm hoping someone can give me some information, i have a Boxer she is one and a half yrs old, we were'nt going to let her have pups, but we have been told thats very unfair to our dog, being a bitch and all, so next time she breaks down (month before she turns 2 yrs) we are/have a dog to breed with her, to be honest this is all new to us :s , just wanted to know if there are books that we can read up on about breeding our dog, as i don't know if we need someone with the knowledge of assisting in the delivery, being there when she would go into Labour and all the rest that goes with it, as our dog (kim) is part of our Family and we would'nt want anything to go wrong, also as i said "it's all new to us" we really need to learn an awful lot regarding her getting pregnant and after the birth, we have had other dogs before now but it never ever went to them getting pregnant, i would be Grateful for any help given, Thankingyou all in advance.

It is not unfair NOT to let her have pups; this is a very old and very untrue wives tale.

Hi tohme, thanks for replying to my post, i did'nt believe it either when i was told but just wanted to make sure, we have decided to breed our Boxer kim and the stud is a very fine and healthy specimen of a Boxer, but we will be sure to get both dogs checked out before anything happens between them.

Whoever told you its not fair DON'T LISTEN TO THEM.

If you don't want to breed then don't, Its that simple.  Its not unfair on your bitch, its like saying every women should have a baby!!!

No offence, as I can see you want to learn, but if deep down you don't want to breed your more likly to do damage, not saying you will.  There are some problems with boxers health wise so make sure if you do breed you have all health checks done on your bitch and make sure the dog has had them all done too.

Rox

Hi ice_queen, thanks for your reply as i said to tohme i did'nt think it was true but thought i would ask you guys on here, and also we have decided to breed, but we will make sure that both dogs have full health checks done, thanks again

crystal_lite

i agree its a total old wifes tale! neither of mine have had litters, i dont think they are bothered! having puppies is alot of work for you & the bitch & a lifes time committment to the babies! dont feel guilty if you decide not to breed!

Hi michelled, thanks for your reply as well, we have decided to breed, But we will be making sure all nessasary checks are carried out, thanks again

crystal_lite

Hi Crystal,
I don't know who told you that it's 'not fair' to not let your bitch have pups, but they're utterly and completely wrong! It's perfectly fair to keep her as a maiden all her life, and can in fact be safer for her (bitches can die whelping).

If you are serious about having a litter from her, she will need to be heart-tested (Boxers are prone to heart disease), and probably hip-scored as well. It would be unwise to mate her before she is two years old anyway, so it would be the season after next at the earliest.

Did you buy her as a pet, or as a breeding prospect? If just a pet, then she may well have too many breed faults (even Champions have faults) to be worth breeding from. If you bought her from a reputable breeder, who shows their dogs, then I would suggest you contact them for advice. If not, then contact one of the Boxer Breed Clubs - they'll be happy to help.

Buy a copy of "The Book of the Bitch" - you will find it invaluable. Breeding dogs isn't as easy as people will have you believe!

You do NOT need to breed your bitch. She will NOT suffer either physically or psychologically from not having a litter.

Ethical breeding is time-consuming and expensive. Your bitch and the stud both need to be health tested (not just a vet check). They both need to be excellent examples of the breed - this is usually reflected by their success in the show ring.

When you breed you need to be prepared for the possiblity that your bitch and/or one or more of the pups will die. You need to afford to have time off work both before and after the birth to be with the bitch. You have to have good homes waiting for the pups and it is your responsibility to take back any or all of those pups, at any time during their lives, should the owners not be able to keep them.

Breeding should be left to the experts.

I agree, neither of my bitches have been bred from, and the old girl was 14yr in December, and she's a very happy old lady. Having puppies sounds such a lovely idea, until you read/hear/learn what's involved. It's a massive commitment, which should not be undertaken lightley.

liberty :)

Hi Jeangenie, thanks for your reply to my post, i totally agree with you but i also wanted to hear from you guys on here what you thought of it, when we bought kim we did'nt think about breeding her we just enjoyed having her and will always as she is a Big part of our Family, now we are being inundated with offers of studs for her, but we have already have a stud for her and what a Beauty he is (big and healthy)
I am going to do what you suggested and buy the book ( The Book of the Bitch ) and thanks again Jeangenie i hope to talk to you again.

crystal_lite

Hi
by 'big and healthy' I assume you mean within breed standards and hip heart tested etc.
Have you read all the horror stories on this board...don't think it won't happen to you..it can..its not that unusual.
Are you prepared to loose your bitch?
are you prepared to take back a 6 month old pup that the owners no longer want because it isn't house trained or has destroyed their house?
Are you prepared for huge vets bills if things go wrong?
are you ready to have 8 or 10 little puppies running round your house....sound lovely...the mess they make isn't.its suprising how often those little ones can pee and poo!!
are you prepared to have a puppy put to sleep if it is born with a deformaty?
These are just a few things...
Good luck
Archer

Dear crystal lite,
                        Please before you decide anything, just think of the consequences of breeding your dog. It's not always a walk in the park, you have to think about it carefully, do you have emergency access to a vet in case your girl goes into labour and has a problem at 3:30am, as mine did....Can you afford the vet bills in case she does need help, my girls c-section cost $1,100.00......Are you prepared to lose the bitch to complications, and be left with a litter to hand raise, or have both mom and litter die ?.....Are you prepared to put down one or perhaps more of your pups, if they are born with a deformity?
Are you prepared to clean up PILES of SMELLY puppy poo, and deal with the cost of feeding and housing mom and litter, can you afford the vet bills involved with routine health care of a litter? Can you handle getting a call one day from someone who had gotten a pup from you saying that they are leaving the country/moving to an apartment/just don't want that dog anymore...and that sweet little pup you remember is now a dog, with it's own issues.

Please consider these points, and then and ONLY then, sit down and ponder this :

Am I adding quality to my breed?

You seem determined to go ahead with breeding your bitch despite the advice you have received here.

Okay.

First buy and read 'The Book of the Bitch' BEFORE you mate her.

Ensure that you have sufficient money set aside in case your bitch needs a C-section, and in case you need to take time off work to raise and feed the litter should your bitch die giving birth. (Boxers can have large litters, one of my pups came from a litter of 16, so in the event of having to buy milk replacement this can be expensive).

Can you handle stillborns, fading puppies, having to cull malformed puppies, seeing your bitch eat her pups? Sounds horrid but, believe me, it does happen.

You also need to ensure that you have sufficient funds to vaccinate the puppies and to feed weaned, growing pups until they are all sold.

Your bitch, and the stud dog, MUST be tested for hip displysia, sub-aortic stenosis, cardiomyopathy, hypothyroidism, and other traceable inherited conditions.

You must ensure that you have good, responsible homes lined up for the pups.  Will you have homes if the litter consists of all bitches, or all dogs. Will you have homes for any whites?

You must take back any unwanted puppies or dogs that you are responsible for producing when their owners no longer want them.

Please consider these points carefully.

And have sufficient funds or insurance should one of your pups have unforeseen health problems and it's owners take you to court for the vet bills and their pain and suffering.

Crystal-lite,

It is very rare for people to be inundated with offers of stud, that isn't how it works..

A litter from a boxer is more than just demanding due to some complications of whelping etc but as you may know they are a big and difficult breed at times. ( talking from experince myself).

It is very very common for people/breeders to have puppies returned when they reach the terrible teenage time from 10 months onwards. Are you prepared to do this with all of your puppies, What if you cannot re home a puppy returned to you? this is very common also.

I have know of people with " pet quality" litters that cannot even sell them all and are trying to give them away or certainly cheaply.

People when buying pets are far more smarter these days and will wait and go to the top breeds and wait for a pet puppy from them. As a boxer litter may only have 1 or 2 " show type" puppies and the rest go to good homes. 

People generally would prefer to do this than buy from a possibly inexperinced breeder.

It is also important to remember that puppies that are sold are covered under the sale of goods act also. 

These are all but a few things to think about..

Some of the boxer people here will tell you that it aint big return for little work infact quite to opposite,, little or no return will months of work.

A one off vet bill during whelping or post whelping can set you back a bit.

My little girl had a bad ear infection after her puppies, I took her to the vet one night as was concerned I got a lovely £ 300. bill, and that was just for starters.

Pam

Just one question crystal_lite - why do you want to breed? 
The old wives' tale of a bitch needs to breed has been debunked - as you accept - but still you want to go ahead. 
Why?  Money, perhaps?  But, if you are anything other than a backyard breeder, breeding does not make money. 
Are you wanting to become a backyard breeder?  Do you want your dog to go through numerous pregnancies until she is completely knackered and ill?
If the answer is no, then why do you want to breed your dog?

Hello Crystal lite you say you didn't want to breed with your bitch but was told it was unfair not too... Rubbish... but you are still going ahead with it why?????? if you are going ahead with breeding take her to a well known breeder, they can offer you lots of advice throughout the pregnancy and birth of these puppies.....Trust me you will need it as boxers aren't easy whelpers and you could end up loseing the bitch and puppies.

Hello Bengidog, could you tell me what you would class as a backyard breeder???? i have a pet lab that i have bred once in the past and doing it again to a very good stud that is being shown and has all his health checks as does my girl. But after this litter she won't be having anymore unlike some who get 5 or 6 litters out of there bitches. Now if i were doing it for the money i could get a free mating from my sisters lab, but i prefer paying 5oo pound for an excellent stud that has 1cc now and is being shown. I also make sure my girl goes to the vets to make sure she is 100% fit and well, as do the puppies when they are born. They live in the house not in a garden shed and are well socialized happy puppies by the time they leave home. But if i thought for 1 second that i couldnt find homes i wouldnt do it, i also tell all the new owners that if they can't keep there dogs for whatever reason or age to bring them back to me. As i hate the thought of not knowing where they are or how they are.. I have been very lucky as all the owners send me e-mails and pictures of there dogs, or if i dont hear from them for a while i contact them...So although i live in an ordinary house with a hubby and children i don't class myself as a backyard breeder. I am lucky to be able to stay home and do everything possible to get a happy outcome, What makes me more happy is that my girl had 11 puppies and every simgle one of them went to excellent homes so i must have done something right...PS i do have a waiting list for this litter also... and can i add that yes it is  very expensive  to rear a litter from start to finish..

Backyard breeders can be summed up by two words: Greed, and Irresponsibility.

They breed for the money they can make from puppies whelped by bitches that are too young, too old, or poor examples of the breed. They breed too frequently with no consideration for the health of the bitch. There is no concern for the stud either. Any male that looks like the breed in question will do. They have probably never heard of a breed standard and wouldn't care about it anyway. They do not bother with expensive health checks and probably are not overly concerned about vaccinations, worming, etc. They are certainly not concerned about where the pups they produce end up. Their facilities are questionable and their knowledge of breeding limited - but they breed so often that a few dead pups and bitches here and there doesn't matter too much.

Then you have the naive 'mum and dad' breeders who want the kids to see "the miracle of birth", or who "want a puppy just like Bess or Billy". Again, no health checks, no experience of the process of mating and whelping, no idea of what can go wrong, no conception of 'improving the breed', no thought for the time, care, and cost that goes into a successful breeding, no thought for the future of the pups they produce.

Also there are those who deliberately cross breed to produce 'designer dogs'' with the idea of raking in the money. As though there were not enough xbreeds and mongrels already in shelters and pounds.

It all makes me very sad and extremely cross.

Hi to everyone that replied to my post, sorry i have'nt been able to reply back to you all as i've been very sick, 1st of Bengidog how dare you call me a backyard Breeder you don't know me or anything about me, so keep your nasty replies to your self!, and to everybody else i'll tell you why i was going ahead with Breeding my dog, because i was being Pressured by my Husband and grownup son, who had it put into their heads by some eejit that it was unfair to our dog, i bought the Book of the Bitch and read it and no bloody way is my poor dog going through that, or me come to it, i have been suffering from Depression because of the thought of it and that our dog could die, my husband now knows the pressure i have been under because of the idea of what could/would happen to kim our dog and agrees that it's not worth her life and our loss, so i thought i would let you all know the reason why i was pretending to be happy about breeding her, i was too embarrassed to say that i was being put under pressure, but now they know the horror that could happen to our dog they are on the same thinking as me.
one more question, please don't bite my head off, is it ok to get our dog spayed or not ? Thanking you in advance

Yes it is ok to get your dog spayed if you don't intend on breeding from her.
I had my first Boxer bitch spayed as she phantomed dreadfully after her seasons.
It did not change her delightful character, it didn't make her fat (but I did watch her weight
to make sure) she lived to a good age for a Boxer 10years and 3 weeks old. She did not suffer from incontinence.
She still was the same bouncy dog I had before :)
Talk it over with your vet, but it's normally best to get your bitch spayed midway between
seasons, for eg if your bitch has a season once every twelve months you want to spay her
mid-way say 6 months after her season. Some vets may say 12 weeks after is fine...

Yes, it is fine to get your bitch spayed.

Spaying eliminates false pregnancies, pyometra, and cystic ovaries. It also reduces the chance of her developing mammary tumours.

I have had spayed bitches and found no alteration in their behaviour, appearance, or temperament. They lived long and healthy lives.

Hi Boxacrazy and ShadowBoxer, Thanks very much for your replies and help, just want to say it's people like you and others on this Forum that are of Great Value to ppl like me, i hope everything goes well in your lives :) , again Thankyou

Rose

Hi Rose
its really nice to hear from people like you who put their dog above and before making a few ££'s.
Hope you stay with us..we're not just here to answer questions...we like to just talk dogs so join in .
Archer

Hi archer, thanks for the nice reply :) , and thanks i will stay around as it's all very interesting and some times scarey what you read on the boards, but always very knowledgable (not sure if spelt right) so thanks again archer

Rose

Hi crystal lite, my two bitches are spayed. one,tara was spayed when i got her. i had nellie done at 3 1/2 after umming & arring about having a litter from her. its made her a much happier little dog, less hormonal i suppose!
they have less health risks when speyed & it means you dont need to go through the stress when they are in season!

Hi michelled, thank you also for your nice reply and also i've just learned something new as well from you and and couple of the other ppl on here (about less health risks) by getting our dog kim spayed, i actually thought that there would be a risk in getting her spayed, that's why i asked was it ok to have it done, so Thanks to all of you for helping me :)

Rose

Hi Rose,

When you have Kim spayed make sure that the vet does NOT use ACEPROMAZINE. This is a pre-anaesthetic tranquiliser and most vets are aware that it can be a dangerous drug for boxers and will use a safe, alternative, sedative.

If you go to a large practice and do not know the vet who will operate you should  clearly write on the consent form "No Acepromazine" and you should ensure that this is noted on her records for the future.

It would be a good idea to print the following off and take it with you just in case - http://www.jlhweb.net/BOSS/ace.htm

Hi Shadowboxer, wow how can i thankyou for giving me that information, i went to the addy that you gave and nearly died when i read it :( , all i can say again is Thank God all you guys know what you are talking about and then some (you all know who you are) ;) , i was looking for a Boxer site when i started out and i found CD, think i must have been meant to find you :), a Great Big Thankyou Shadowboxer :)  and i Love being apart of CD

Rose
ps, i will be taking the printout with me when it's time to get kim spayed

Pleased I could help Rose.

I have send you a PM.

Hi Shadowboxer, thanks, i have sent you a PM
Rose