Hi and Happy New Year
I have been searching for a long long time for a yellow labrador bitch, however, the puppies I have seen have all been chunky and seem to be what the show breeders are going for these days.  The head is wider and the muzzle shorter, in fact I have seen some that almost look like teddy bears.  I understand that many English breeders are now going out of the country to do their breeding and that Sweden is a big draw right now as the dogs have a real wide and chiseled head, and the muzzle is short and wide.  same goes for the height of the dog. 
On a recent trip to America we saw many beautiful labs along the slimmer lines with the narrower head shape, exactly what we are looking for and had thought to bring one back to the UK on the DEFRA scheme, however as the pup would only reach us at 10 months old or even later we have realised that this is not the best of ideas.
Please please please does anybody know of a reputable labrador breeder in the UK, we will travel anywhere to look, who breeds yellow labradors along the slimmer lines with the narrower head shape.  We have noticed that the field labradors here are closest to what we are looking for but I do worry about temperament and have been told that they can be "too hyper" and we are looking for a companion not a working dog.
I would be so very grateful for any help and suggestions as we are slowly beginning to give up hope.
Thanks a million
Jane

Hi,
I know exactly what you mean about the show labradors. I far prefer the look of the working-type as well. We may have been lucky in the past, but we have had a couple of working-bred labs purely as pets, and have had no problems at all with them being hyper. It could be that we are an active family and walk several miles a day anyway, so perhaps our lifestyle suited the dogs, rather than the dogs having to adapt to us, but to be honest, if a dog had been any quieter and easier to train it might as well have been stuffed!

When we get another puppy it will be a working-bred lab. Just as a pet.
Hope this helps.
:)

Hi Jeangenie
Is there any chance you could tell me where you got your labs from???? Could I possible email you or vice versa?
I would be ever so grateful to you if this were the case.
Thanks so much

Be aware that the American breed standard for the Labrador is different to the UK standard in several details, not least being the height. An American Labrador is quite a bit taller than it's UK counterpart. There is so much said about the Labs in this country getting smaller but in fact the height in the very first breed standard is exactly the same as the latest standard!

Regards, John

John thank you so much for your advice.  I know that you post on the site a lot and know a lot about labs having read your posts several times before.  Would you happen to know of anybody who breeds labs along the lines we are searching for?

Hi Jane
From what I have read American field labs can be very hyper but British field labs have a much steadier temperament.  My lab has just turned eight months and I have been amazed at how easy he is to train and how easily he takes life in his stride.  He has a lovely temperament and apart from  his looks, the only other time it is noticable that he is from working lines is if I throw a ball or hide a toy for him -  he's after it or will hunt it out as if his life depended on it!  My family also had a working lab as a pet when I was a child - he was the most gentle, lovely natured dog you could wish for.  Provided they have plenty of mental stimulation as well as exercise I am sure you will have a wonderful pet (but then I am biased!)
best wishes, Jenny

Our first one was a rescue lab, acquired at about 3 years old and in shocking condition, but she went on to live to 14 or so. She had obviously been gun-trained in her time, and would mark two dummies and retrieve them one at a time. The other one we got from a local farm - we went about the whole puppy-buying process completely wrong, but struck gold!

John would be the person for advice on what lines to look for - he's giving me advice for when I look for another!
:)

To understand the differences in appearance between the working gundog and it's show bred brothers you need to look at the early days of the breeds. Most breeding in the early days was done by the big kennels with very little being done by what today would be called the "Hobby" breeder. The show ring was the shop window for these kennels and any dog who was not up to scratch was a liability! No one would want their "Shop Window" dog to get the cuts and torn coats that a working dog would be likely to receive in the field so often the working dog would be the one not worth showing!! Over the years, these trained dogs, achieving success in the field, were bred from and so the foundation of the more variable appearance, working dogs appeared. Some of these dogs were so successful that they achieved a monitory value of their own! So much so that at a sale on the 9th of June 1905, a Flatcoated Retriever, "High Legh Blarney", an experienced dog having spent two seasons in the field, was offered for sale. The bidding started at 50 guineas and quickly ran up to 200 guineas before being brought by Mr Henry Reginald Cooke! For those of you too young to know what exactly a guinea was, it was £1-1-00 or in today's decimal currency £1-5p so 200 guineas was £210!! Just think what £210 in 1906 would be worth now!

When we look for a working Labrador we look for three things. The working ability which we hope will be carried over from the sire and dam. The temperament. It is quite usual to crowd ten adults, four children and six dogs in a Landrover and a poor temperament would never do!! Thirdly, health. Just imagine spending two years training a dog only for it to break down after a season of work. A working gundog's life can be quite hard work. I've seen my Anna drag a Canada Goose weighing 12lbs back to me because she was physically incapable of opening her mouth wide enough to pick it up!

The one thing which comes quite low in our priorities is looks! I like a Labrador to bear more than a passing resemblance to the breed but I also feel the show people have gone too far the other way. A Labrador is a retriever and as such should at least look as if it could spend all day in the field. The standard is designed for just that! A strong neck and shoulders capable of carrying a heavy bird, leg geometry to allow an easy running and jumping, A well developed nose for taking in scent. All packaged up in a kindly, soft mouthed, highly intelligent dog.

From all this it's easy to see that with a working Labrador it is very difficult to say exactly what the puppy will grow up like! We tend to bring our dogs on at a slower pace than the show people, not having to rush to get a fairly mature looking puppy into the ring at six months. In fact at six months we have barely started training! It would be easy to say that there is not a lot wrong with the average show dog that loosing 10lbs would not cure but in fact it is not that simple. My own Anna is possibly as heavy, or even heavier than the average bitch in the ring! Our dogs may sometimes look thinner but just try putting them on the scales!

If you really do want a Labrador from working lines I would suggest looking in the shooting press such as "Shooting Times" Look for an advert for puppies out of a good working bitch by a good FTch sire. Go and look but be prepared to come away again if the puppies are not to your taste. Puppies from the top name kennels are much sought after, so much so that a friend of mine has a two year waiting list! 

Best wishes, John

Wow - I was going to reply to this post, but John has said it all.  I have working labs who have wonderful temperaments.  They are first and foremost PETS.  I love watching them work and retrieve, hopping over fences and swimming, they are so agile.  They are also perfectly happy stretched out in front of the Rayburn in the kitchen, their paws nearly burning as they lay so close.  On a walk last summer Tess was sniffing around in some long marsh grass.  She came back to me and we got all the way home when I noticed she was holding her mouth slightly open, she had a moorhens egg in it, completely whole and uncracked, which she dropped into my hands when told.  The soft mouth which John mentions!
Good luck in your quest.
Lorna

Dear John
You really are a true star, I have learnt so much from you, each time I read one of your posts I learn something new and you always have something fascinating to tell. 
Like you, I also feel the show people have gone too far and believe that a Labrador is should at least look as if it could spend all day in the field and to be a kindly, soft mouthed, highly intelligent dog. I am going to have a look in the Shooting Times as you suggest, If possible though would you be able to email me to give me some names of breeders you would recommend? We are prepared to wait for the right pup!
Thank you so much in advance
Jane

Hi everyone, I have been a member here for some time, but this is the first time I have been compelled to join in. I have show labs now, but I started off with working bred labs. I know I am merely standing up for the breed I love so much, but some of us show people actually DO have fit, active dogs. I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks.. Mica

Hi Micra.
There are some very nice dogs in the show ring. There is also some real puddings! As a working breed (And by that I mean a breed bred to work rather than to look pretty) I firmly believe that they should look as if they really could do a day in the field.

Looking at the older dogs in the breed, there were some outstanding looking dogs, Ch Whatstandwell Coronet (Back in the '60s if my memory serves me correct) In those days there were very few of the chunkier dogs around. One of the first I always feel was Ruler Of Blaircourt. Although a heavier built dog his son and grand son Sandylands Tweed of Blaircourt and Sandylands Tan were both of an altogether lighter type.

It's so interesting looking back on the breed at how things have changed! Glenhead Jimmy, one of the most famous of all was so slim and when you think about Flapper, the first Labrador to work in a field trial was also well shown in his day! I do sometimes feel we have lost our way.

Regards, John

Hello John

After following this forum for some time now ( especially since we got max our lab) It's quite obivious to myself and my wife that you are indeed extremley knowledgable and passionate about labradors. So before I ask my question if I tell you a little bit about my dog,  Max is know almost 11 months old to the day, he is a gorgeous yellow colour with what looks like sargent stripes on his front shoulders, He is a handsome looking fellow with a huge strong head with a strong solid build, he has huge paws and is also a very, very good natured and friendly,loving dog, basically he turns heads whenever we are out walking ( everybody loves a good looking lab I suppose) and we bought him from a working gun dog breeder nr Ashford in Kent. We have taken him to training classes which he coped with brilliantly especially as we missed the first three weeks (not that you would have noticed) and now he is quite a joy to be with. However I am and have always have been, very interested in watching gun dogs work, I have only seen brief moments on tv which only adds to the curiosity of being to go live?. Is there any where that I could find info to be able to tag along and watch ( with Maxi of course) or is it out of bounds unless you are a dog worker.
I look forward to hearing from you. ( we live nr Guildford , surrey)

I've emailed you :)

Best wishes, John

Just spotted your post Brysee.  There is a working gundog club based in Guildford. There are also several other clubs fairly close by who hold gundog training classes during the summer months.  I will also email you with some details.
Lorna

Hello Lorna

That would be great if you could, John is also helping out, he has sent me a couple of pictures of Annie who's a real good looker!

I was sure there was one in Guildford Lorna, but could not think who it was who said to me about it! (Growing old :( ) Maybe you can pass that info on to Bryan? Thanks.

Best wishes, John

Just found the old girl's pedigree (such as it is!). Her father was sired by a Brackenbank dog out of a Glenburnie bitch, and other individuals further back include FTCh Berrystead Berry, FTCh Holdgate Willie and Spudtamson's Beth. As our girl resembled her father much more than her mother, this is the direction I'd be tempted to look for another. I can email you a photo of her if you like, to see if we're on the same wavelength in ideals!
:)

Dear Jeangenie
I would love to see an email of your lab I bet she is beautiful and thank you so much for taking the trouble I have a feeling we are on the same wavelength in ideals and would like very much to see a pic.

I'll email you in the morning. I dont know of anything around mark you, but I might be able to give you some ideas. Jeangenie's line sounds very much like one side of my Anna!!

Best wishes, John