hi,

was sent a link to an anti dda association today (thx nikki) and came across this.

as an owner of an ISBT - a dog that could very easily be judged as of pit type (especially as she is a little tall) this really really got to me - bare in mind im a 6ft ex gym addict im still sat here with tears in my eyes all from this poor guys last words for his friend which was pts purely because of the way it looked
http://www.endangereddogs.com/EDDRSaltyTears.htm

Andy, that is so sad. I personally know nothing about the DDA, and have no experience with any breed of the dogs concerned, suffice to say, that I totally agree that certain breeds are being given a bad press, purely because of the way they look. Excuse my ignorance, but what facts were taken into consideration when certain breeds were placed on this register? Who decided which breeds were more 'dangerous' than others?
Sharon

will probably get me marked a troll lol but here we go....

the dogs to be included were chosen by the government with advice taken from the kc and the rspca (neither of which are really friendly towards non reg dogs imo).

dont get me wrong, i think that there has to be something in place to keep the general public safe from dangerous animals but it really should be more about reabillitation (sp) than execution.

As things stand at the moment (pls someone correct me if im wrong) any dog that is deemed to be of pit type can be seized by the authorities and after further test can be pts. when determining if it is of type no temprement qualities are considered.

so basically, if you look a certain way youve had it.... wonder how that would go down if applied to people....

Indeed...that's bizzare! So the temperament of any animal, which they deem to be dangerous, isn't taken into account when the powers that be, decide if an animal should lose the right to live? I've heard loads about it, but I've never actually looked into it before, probably, if I'm entirely honest, because it had no bearing on the breeds of dogs that I choose to keep. But that is so unfair - Is this law implemented very often? I mean I obviously know that pitbulls are illegal in this country, and really before I started using this forum, I wouldn't have known the difference between the different breeds of bulls, and probably still wouldn't - but I'd certainly think about it before I branded it a 'danger' to society - That's just plain crazy. Oh and I hope I don't get you branded a troll

dont think the laws are implemented as stringently these days - this was unfortunalty for the animals a stunt by the government to gain favour with the public to now that the issue is no longer in the limelight it isnt thought to be as important.

Typical bloody beauracrats!! (sp) So if the poodle who was talked about in a previous post seriously bites a child, it isn't deemed a dangerous dog, although it clearly is, and then you have someone like yourself, who's dog may be of the loveliest temperament, being labelled as something it's not, because of the way it looks, and nothing at all to do with it's behaviour or character
That's like saying all people with certain common features should be grouped and labelled, talk about not putting 'people' into boxes???
It's like everything else I suppose what's important to someone may not be as important to someone else - but these are defenceless animals - and I'm glad there are people around like yourself who are prepared to stand up and defend them. Good for you.

I've known ISBT's and think they are lovley... frightened of JRT's tho :o (No offence to those with adorable JRT's but they just scare me!)

i hate the idea of the dda at the end f the day though i think there would have been a good reason why these dogs are regarded as dangerous.

i hate the idea of the dda at the end the day though i think there would have been a good reason why these dogs are regarded as dangerous otherwise there would have been some really big problems in passing the law.
if u think about it i do think that scince the law was passed the way it is a great deterrent for stopping ppl from keeping dogs such as these
for example if suddenly this happend to isbts (what breed is this???) then as a loving dog owner i can understand u not wanting it to happen and attempting to keep ur dogs as long as possible but wouldnt it encourage u not to keep the breed in future??

i dont mean to worry or upset u but do u think this is true

to be honest i hate the law and think its a waste of time asi think all breeds of dogs are lovely specially labs gsd's and staffys my fave only ones that scare me is yorkies and chihauhaus and i no i cant spell i would hate to step on one they are so small and r really easy to squash
dont mean to upset ne one but there u go please reply

dont get me wrong, i think that some kind of legislation is neccesary to ensure that ppl are not at risk through genuinly dangerous dogs but im sure you agree that to destroy a dog and erradicate a breed from this country because of a couple of isolated incidents is not on.

the law passed so easily because it was done under a media frenzy - Most people are unable to think for themselves when there aare newspapers to do it for them!!

I agree that it would stop people wanting to keep these dogs which could be dangerous but i dont beleive that it is correct to do so - i would prefer for licenses to be required or something along those lines to prevent the idiot eliment getting hold of them and ruining them.

Its an Irish Staffordshire bull terrier by the way - taller and more stocky than a regular staff and as soft as they come lol.

The Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier looks a little like the American Bull Terrier, although they are generally a little smaller and lighter built with a face more like a staffy.

It wouldn't be hard to confuse the ISBT, ABT and APBT if you didn't know the breeds at all but if you were to put the 3 together they are quite different - I guess it's like me not knowing the difference between spaniels although I know there IS a difference I'm not sure which one is which (lol)... and I'm sure someone who knows better will be along to tell you more soon!

yeah thats about right wish - i always find ppl without dogs think shes a staff and ppl with staffs think shes a pit. ISBTs arnt very common round here so i spend soooo much time tellin people lol.

Andy - S - if that applied to people I probably would be the one of the few left on my "estate". I agree with you.

CG

hi that is really sad isnt it. ive just bought a american bulldog puppy and have been told to watch out for problems and legalities because of being classed as pit bull type its pathetic.
hayley

you should be ok with an am bulldog - only stupid people will think its anything else lol.

at the moment he will be so cute that it wont matter anyway :)

hi andy this is what the kennel club said to me when my vet told me to get some advice from them and they were trying to get them on the dangerous dogs list apparently . i have to chase up all his papers from the breeder so if i neede to i could prove he was a pure genuine american bulldog. and yes he is cute but seems very dominant already.
hayley

american bulldogs now is it :( when will they stop :((

To be honest i spoke to the kennel club , and numerous American Bulldog breeders , and it was never the intentions of the kennel club to get the American Bulldog added to the dda.  And even if it was , the likelyhood of it ever happening anyway was very slim.   There are other things going on in the American Bulldog circle , but getting them added to the dda is not one of them.

If your puppy is being dominant now , you will need to be very firm with him , as this can be where some of the problems lie when sometimes inexperienced people take them on , training with American Bulldogs with some breeders is started as early as two weeks old , they are fantasic dogs , and very good with children , but dont underestimate them as they are , and can be very intelligent , be prepared for him trying to outsmart you.  Our dogs training was started when we first had her at 8 weeks old , shes the most perfect well behaved dog we have ever owned , theres no going back when you have an Am Bulldog , you have them , and then have them for life :-D

I have just read through this and had to join the board again to answer.

Anyone that knows about American Bulldogs , will know that you have an American Bulldog!

I own molosser breeds Neo Mastiff , American Bulldog , and Bulldogs.

American Bulldogs are not classed as "pit type" anyone that says that is very inexperienced about the breed , and dont know what they are talking about , if you know what they were bred for , you will know they were not bred to fight in pits.  Although people have used them to fight in pits , but certain lines would be useless at it anyway.

sounds like good news :)

On the 9th October 2003, the Kennel Club hosted a meeting to discuss the Dangerous Dogs Act (DDA) 1991, with a view to making representations to the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) and suggesting ways that the current Act could be amended or even rewritten.

This meeting came about as a result of the initial forum organised by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) at New Scotland Yard in June. Organisations in attendance included the MPS, the Kennel Club, Dogs Trust (the new name for the NCDL) and the RSPCA.

Chairing the meeting was Chief Superintendent Simon Ovens of the MPS, who, amongst other duties, is responsible for Dangerous Dog policy in the London area. The MPS are regarded as nationwide leaders with reference to their views and policy regarding 'dangerous dogs' and with their proactive assistance, dogs held under the DDA in the London area that pose no danger to the public have already been re-homed after behavioural assessment.

All organisations present were in agreement that the DDA needs modification as breed specific legislation is not the solution. Furthermore, all agreed that a large percentage of dog biting incidents were due to the irresponsible actions of owners, who had either not taken the time and trouble to train their dog correctly, or had indeed trained them to become aggressive.

The slogan 'Punish The Deed Not The Breed' - that has long been adopted by Domino, a campaigning group of concerned dog owners under the umbrella of the KC and others - was discussed and approved by all present, further clarifying where the real problems of the DDA exist.

Said Chief Superintendent Ovens, "The MPS is very pleased to be working alongside Dog Legislation Advisory Group (DLAG) members with regard to this important issue. We feel that if we approach DEFRA as a unified group they will listen to our concerns and consider modifying this piece of legislation."

Caroline Kisko, Secretary to the Kennel Club concluded, "Once again, we are encouraged with the way in which the MPS and DLAG continue to work together and the next step will be to prepare a paper for civil servants at DEFRA and seek a meeting with them."

It is envisaged that this paper will be produced by November and the next 'Dangerous Dogs' meeting will take place in the early part of the New Year.

ENDS
22/10/03

Contact For Further Information:
Press Office
020 7518 1008 / 1020
pressoffice@the-kennel-club.org.uk

Hi all
I dont know enough about any of this to really comment but my sister in law had a boxer and the boxer was breed with a staff (dont ask me why, cos i have no idea) anyway when the pups where born they looked a bit like a messed up mastiff. There was 3 pups all male. They made a lot of noise but where lovely. never snarled or bit anyone. Her neigbours complained that they had dangerous dogd and the police came round, they agreed that the dogs where dangerous and the dogs were taken. A very expensive 2 year court battle then took place (the dogs were in police kennels all through this) and the judge agreed and all 3 were pts.

Would that X really be classed as a dangerous dog?

Debbie

unfortunatly, that is up to the judge so if he says so then yes!

stupid aint it

i must admit though - that is a cross that would usually be done to create dogs which looked hard to be sold to idiots just to make money! Not saying this is what your sister in law was doing but its the way it will have been looked at.

Andy

DDA 1989
1.--(1) This section applies to--
(a) any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;
(b) any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and
(c) any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose.

They shouldnt have been classed as dangerous , but what they were probably bred for was to create a  dog that would have been known as a "BullBoxer"
I know very little about the breed myself , but there are people out there breeding those sort of dogs.  And many of those go unheard of , or not known about , sorry but your sis- in-law should have had more sense than to let the pregnancy go ahead.

I totaly agree. I don't like the women anyway. I just felt sorry for the dogs. They were wonderfull and so so good with children. I don't think it was even the fact that they where pts that upset me most it was the 2 years they had to stay in police kennels, it must have been awfull for them.

Debbie

and all through no fault of their own :(

the 2 years they spent like that would have done more harm and made them more dangerous to people than their breeding ever would have!!!

sickeining!!

Most dogs if raised properly have the ability to get along with children , its all in the rearing of a puppy , you only get what you put in...
Sorry about the puppies , what a shame some idiot decided to report them as being dangerous when they had not even had a chance to judged in that way :-(

When I first got my staffy someone called the police because they said that my dog was a dangerous breed and that he should have muzzled.  The guy was laughed at by the police as the dog was not classed as a dangerous breed.  He was not leaving the police station until they proved that Staffords were not on the Dangerous Dog's Act list.  My local police station keeps a copy of the list.