hello, i realise im risking lots of nasty replies to this post, but i feel i must say this.........ive been reading lots of posts and ive noticed when someone who is obviously inexperienced asks a question, they seem to get lots of rude replies. i dont think this is very fair. this message board is supposed to be used to help others, not critisize, or make fun of people who are new to dogs/dog breeding. we were all beginners at one stage or another, giving harsh critisism, making false judgements of people and making fun of their lack of knowledge is hardly conductive to helping them, or encouraging them to keep using this board....its very off putting. can i suggest to everyone that they try to be open minded and helpful, rather than looking down on others who are just starting out in the world of dogs/breeding etc. ;-)

You are not alone, I feel that way as well. We all have to start somewhere and although some questions may seem silly to the "experienced" people they are not to the person who wrote them.

exactly! whenever i see someone ask a question which shows they are inexperienced, my first instinct is to try and help them, not shoot them down. if there is anyone here who knows everything there is to know about dogs, i'd love to meet them!!! if the "experienced" people on here are rude to the "inexperienced" it will just make them go and seek "advice" elsewhere, and perhaps the advice wont be that good! thanks for your post, wasnt expecting any support on this one!! ;-)

<<Due to Champdogs I have received and e-mail from a puppy owner who bought a puppy from me nearly elven years ago. We lost touch when she separated from her husband. Thanks again. >>

The above is a post by you! So now you feel that we are not fair??????

John

I don't think pauliedee was actually talking about herself, but many others that have had not so nice replies to a genuine question.  Luckily I've only had nice replies but I have read a few that have made me cringe!

ont know where you got that from but i did not make that post!  please get your facts right. I have just recently joined this forum.

I think John was replying to DozeyDanes

This same thing has happened to me twice,since I joined a week ago!People not knowing who their talking to got me snapped at a few times.People make sure you know who you're talking to before you snap!

quite. John was replying to DD - but got a snappy response. Works both ways you know ;)

Yes,I know it works both ways,but I never got rude with anyone until they were rude to me.

I recon it does happen occasionally.  But when people come on asking a question, get a very informative reply and because it is not what they want to hear start accusing people of shooting them down or critisizing which just isn't the case, it makes you wonder why they bothered replying and trying to help in the first place.  Its seems like sometimes questions are asked and the poster has already made their mind up to have a go at anyone doesn't give the right response, which normally ends up causing a huge debate. Thought I'd stick my oar in :D

There is also the same question, something contentious asked in exactly the same way which leads people to believe that it is the same person just trying to stire things up. Oh yes, I does happen, regulaly! Not all questions are genuine!

John

Pauliedee, this board has been going for a very long time.  I'm sorry that you don't approve of it - we all have a choice whether we visit here or not.  It is frequented by a large number of regulars (oops, I nearly called them oldies then ;) ) who have many, many years of expertise in a variety of dog fields.  Some show, work, do agility, breed, groom and many have just kept dogs all their lives and have learned much in this time.  These people give freely of their time to help genuine dog owners with less experience than themselves.  They are all passionate about their chosen breeds and care very much for the welfare of dogs in general.
The only time that I have noticed the tone be any less than sympathetic is when posts are made that suggest "less than the best advice" to people who don't know any different, or are blatently detrimental to the dogs involved.  When any of us are trying to learn about something new, it's very difficult to sort the good, knowledgeable advice from the other.  The internet makes this even more difficult because a newcomer doesn't know what experience the poster has.  Puppy producers/farmers - as opposed to dog breeders who are guardians of their breed - have never been tolerated on this board, although even then there are some with endless patience who will try to help for the sake of the dogs.
I would suggest that any dog owner who is looking for help with their dog, click on the name of the poster responding to their question, and see how long they have been a member of this board.  Now of course, there are knowledgable folk joining all the time - I have noticed some myself recently and their contributions have been most interesting - but it is at least a guide to help a newcomer assess the advice given.

i do approve of the board, its some of the people's attitiudes who post on it im not impressed with!!

<<I do approve of the board..........>>>

Oh for heavens sake, grow up, the people ARE the board, if you don't like what you hear, don't ask!!! Find your information elsewhere, I am getting totaly p****d of with people who come back here to critisise.

Do you expect us to care that your p****d off.Nobody cares when the new people on here get p****d off.

Amyleigh, I don't give a stuff what you think, but I'll still come back here for advice, from other board members;  your constant moaning and whinging is childish. Up until now, my replies and posts to you have always been polite, and I thought, supportive.

I'm glad you'll return to get advice,so will I.

The questions that usually get peoples backs up on breeding are the how do I stud my dog or how do I find a dog to mate with my bitch?

Both these questions are putting the cart before the horse.  Basicvally if the poster needs to ask they are certainly no where near ready to be taking steps into the world of breeding.

Breeding needs care commitment and most of all knowledge, and even then problems still arise.

As John says breeders are supposed to be Custodians of the breed, and it is those dogs bred to day that are the material future breeders inherit to carry the breed on.  We owe it to the welfare of the breeds individual dogs and their owners that any puppies bred are the best in health, Temperament and adherence to the breed standard thazt can be produced.

Take for example a recent post by someone with a six week old pup, who they had at four weeks.  They are already wanting to know how to getit used at stud, when they don't even have the knowledge to know that a breeder letting puppies go at this age is either hertless money grabber, or knows less than nothing about the proper way to breed.  What are the chances that a pup so produced will make good breeding material for the next generation?

I have got to say this as it has bothered me for some time.  I have had people say to me that they have found this site, but are AFRAID to post in case they get told off.

My feeling is that even those who have bought a puppy from the wrong sources (ie pet shop/puppy farm)  and then come on here for advice about breeding, still need to be given the benefit of the doubt about their intentions (even if only at first).  What I mean is that if you have no experience of dogs then obviously you need to learn before breeding and so on but the dog world (as in experienced breeders, showing and so on) is not well known by Joe Public.  It is only when they find a board like this that they BEGIN to realise their mistakes (ie bought pup from wrong place, not suitable for showing/breeding, registered with Dog Lovers and so on).  The correct way of doing things should be pointed out in the nicest way (even if you are frustrated and angry that someone could be so silly) so that they stay on the board and do not just try to manage without advice.

This is not directed at any one in particular, and obviously I enjoy posting here and have had LOADS of helpful advice (as a first time dog owner who was LUCKY enough to do things right first time in getting my pup from a very good breeder)

Fiona

Think I recall people in just that position and when they have had problems with that pup they have received help and sympathy for the situation they find themselves in. They may be asked why they bought the pup from a less than satisfactory source, but that is not necessary a criticism of the poster but a request aimed at increasing our knowledge of why the pup was bought from where it was and comments may be made to put others off following the same course of action. But help will always be offered

It is sometimes necessary to put your point in a very clear and firm manner because it is easy to be misunderstood.  If we do this it is not intended to be rude or unkind it is just intended to be clear and to the point, after all I think I would be correct in saying we all post and read this site because we care for all dogs not just our own and we would do anything we can to avoid a dog suffering unnecessary, particularly if that dog is one of a breed we have a special interest in.

BRAINLESS,I AM THE ONE WHO POSTED THE QUESTION ABOUT STUDDING THE PUP OUT!!I DIDN'T NOT KNOW THAT HE WAS GIVEN TO ME TOO EARLY UNTIL AFTER I POSTED THAT QUESTION.BUT WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?YOU ARE A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT I THINK PAULIEDEE WAS TALKING ABOUT.THIS BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE INEXPERIENCED TO GET KNOWLEDGE.INSTEAD ITS FOR THE MORE EXPERIENCED TO BE SARCASTIC AND RUDE TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO LEARN HOW TO BEST CARE FOR THEIR DOGS.IF WE KNEW EVERYTHING THERE WAS TO KNOW ABOUT THIS SUBJECT-WE WOULDN'T BE ASKING YOU.BUT,LIKE I SAID TO JACKIE-IF YOU THINK MY QUESTIONS ARE STUPID OR YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO ANSWER THEM-THEN DON'T.I'D RATHER YOU NOT ANSWER ME THAN TO COME BACK WITH A SARCASTIC REMARK.I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL PAULIEDEE,THE VERY FIRST TIME I EVER ASK A QUESTION,I GOT A SMARTASS REMARK!I DO HAVE TO SAY,THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO TRIED THEIR BEST TO HELP AND GAVE VERY GOOD ADVICE.AMYLEIGH

DELETED, for not reading posts properly!

Yes.Some of her comments were directed at me.I'm sure you do get aggravated at answering the same question over again,but some of us just discovered this board and we don't know how many times you've already answered it.IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ANSWER A QUESTION--DON'T!!!

I'm not saying they get aggravated, not at all as most members don't but what is wrong with receiving a straight forward reply? Or even asking a little bit about the dog to get some kind of good idea before they offer advice?
I think some posters sometimes would like to see references to establish they know what they are talking about ;)

Odviously,you haven't seen some the answers I got!

Amyleigh

I think thats a bit out of order :) Brainless wrote a perfectly reasonable post I feel.

On here, you are getting advice from people who have been breeding dogs for years. People who have a huge amount of knowledge on all aspects of dog ownership (not myself might I add!): training, breeding, owning a stud dog, showing, working dogs - the lot. People who are more familiar with hereditary testing and natural whelping, for example, than most vets! All this advice is given freely, in their own time, so if its not sugar-coated in the first instance, then I think you just have to learn to take it in your stride and not get offended :)

I have been a member for over a year, and even now I get into rucks over different posts, and I know that some responses can get folks backs up, but you just have to take it with a pinch of salt... the advice however is normally spot on. I received a LOT of support when my pony was pts and when my dog had suspected HD. Just go with the flow.

C :)

If you will go back and read her post you will see that she was putting me down for asking about studding out my pup,when I wasn't even smart enough to know when my breeder was supposed to give him to me.It's just uncalled for.

I think it was more that she used it as an example to show how the cart is put before the horse. Unfortunately, I think you were a victim of circumstances and a bit of a dodgy breeder, and at least you came here for advice :)

In an ideal world people would do research and find out when is the best time to take a pup away, but some breeders can be very convincing and the information is not always readily available...so at that point I feel it is the fault of the breeder for letting the pup go to early - whatever their reasoning ;)

I certainly was not putting you down.  What I was saying is that as an admittedly toitally novice owner why would you think of breeding from your dog BEFORE you knew anything about it.

You did not ask how do I find out more about my breed?

Are there Breed Clubs for my breed?

How do I know if I have a dog that is Good enough to breed from?

Now lets put it another way.

You go out and buy some Scuba gear.  You have never done any diving.  Do you go on a diving Web board and ask where the best Diving Locations can be found???

Ir do you go on and ask for where you would find a Scubha Diving Club and Instructors???

The answers we normally give to the questions like yours are are.

What has your dog to offer the breed?  How has it proved itself Show or working?  And if the breeder is knoiwledgeable and ethical that they are the people to ask advice regarding compatibility of lines.

Everyone has to start somwhere, but breeding has to be done with knowledge of the dogs used, and as many of their ancestors as possible.  You either have to have this knowledge yourself, or have to relky on someone else who has it, until you yourself reach that level of expertise, whcih in practical terms is never, as there are always those who know more than we do.  That is the purpose of breed clubs, seminars, health testing etc.

I bred my first litter 9 years ago today, with the full support and help of my breeder (who started in early 60's) and is sadly now dead,, and the owner of my bitches sire who started in the vbreed in 1953.

On Thursday I helped whelp a firt litter for a new breeder in my breed.  I didn't breed his bitch and have no personal involvement in his bit6ch or the chosen sire, other than being able to offer assistance and information that I have and he does not, it is called Mentoring, and of course he will have also sought help from others in the breed before going ahead.

I'm assuming you were talking to me.I'd rather ask my questions the way I want to.Thank You.

*THIS BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE INEXPERIENCED TO GET KNOWLEDGE.*

But only if the members of this board wish to share whatever advice they have.

Christine, Spain

That's right Christine.They don't have to share their advice,and I'd rather they didn't if they have to be rude,although I thought that's why they were on here,but then again what do I know.I didn't even know when my breeder should've given me my puppy.

duplicate post

Maybe people thought you were taking things too fast? Buying a pup then a few weeks later on about breeding it.

Maybe they did,but just because I asked about breeding,didn't mean I was going to run out right then and do it.What's wrong with asking a question for the future?

Nothing :)

Can we not just let it drop now? You've made your point, and yes, I think you probably got a rough deal, but folk can only go on the info given in the initial post, initially - if you see what I mean! :)

I mean look at me i pretend to own a great dane and tell others my experiences with her when in fact i'm 17 and own 3 gerbils ;) roflmao

I hope you've had them hipscored if you are intending to mate them ;)

i would say that someone asking questions far in advance shows maturity and that they are trying their best to get information BEFORE they breed, not rush in and then ask when things go wrong, please let up on amyleigh, all she did, from where im sitting, was ask for some advice, and all she got, again from where im sitting! was people critisising her for doing so! ;-(

Yeah,It's like waiting until the pup is starving,and then ask what to feed it!:)

*although I thought that's why they were on here,*
There`s a variety of reasons why we are all on here, it`s not compulsory for anyone/everyone to give advice.

*but then again what do I know.I didn't even know when my breeder should've given me my puppy.*
So why the question about studding him? I must say whenever I see a puppy that has got to be the furthest thing on my mind.

Christine, Spain.

I'll say this one more time-When I asked about studding him out-I wasn't aware that he came to me too soon.I don't understand what the big deal is about me asking about studding when he's only a few weeks old.I'm sorry,I didn't know you could only ask questions for the present.

*THIS BOARD IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE INEXPERIENCED TO GET KNOWLEDGE.*

Is this what you honestly think?

Why do we post here?
Some of the people who post here have years of experience in their breed and of dogs in general. There are experts in showing, breeding, obedience, agility and working tests. Such people as Dizzy, Brainless, Christine and so many others who freely and willingly give advice. Lindsay, who's behavioural advice is so valued on this board. They come here to help and to have a little fun. No one has a god given right to that advice. This week there was a post on this board. Lindsay answered with a very informative post and was told by the poster that they had already done that and if she had nothing more useful to say then shut up, or words to that effect! Real thanks!!!

People so often post a question but on hearing an answer which they don't like, try to shoot the answerer! I sometimes ask my self why we do bother to answer? We don't ask for thanks and with some we certainly don't get any. This week alone, two long standing people have announced that they are leaving the board because of the abusive replies they have received to answers given. So many more have quietly gone because of abuse they have received. Val posted a reply this week, her first for months. Mattie hardly ever posts here now. So many more.

Any you complain that we are not nice to you?

John

Hi Pauliedee,
I understand exactly what you're saying, and to a certain extent I agree with you. But of course it works both ways! There are people who come on here, post a question that is hard to understand (I appreciate many people aren't very literate, but posts in 'txt-spk' are almost incomprehensible to most here!) and then fly off the handle if they are misinterpreted. There are also the people who 'want to breed my shitzu/lahso apso/dalmation' etc who, if they are so uninterested in their (supposedly loved) breed that they haven't learned how to spell it correctly, and get shirty when they are politely asked anything about their animal. Surely anyone who has a pet they love, whether it's a rabbit, a guinea-pig, a budgie etc reads all the books they can to learn about feeding, care, exercise, ailments etc? Yes, everyone is a beginner, but if people ask nicely they'll get a nice answer!
:)

Alot of questions can be answered via the search option, originally i imagine that people asking questions got indepth replies but when you have seen the same question over and over again the replies get shorter.
They may be brief but i don't find any impolite just good old straight to the point information.

Hi all,
I agree that you get people who ask "false" questions just to stir things up, but when genuine people come on here for help then they should get it or if you think they are being stupid then ignore it. The thing I will say is I know someone who comes on here regularly and has quite a fair bit of knowledge with dogs and when she has posted more than a couple of times she has been insulted terribly and told that she is a liar etc, now I know for a fact she does not lie when she posts and even after telling people on here that she was telling the truth they still did not believe her. I think that is appauling (SP???)!

Judging by all the vitriol on here I would guess that our suspicions of a couple on here were well founded!

John

What you need to remember is that everyone who comes on this board to give advice is doing it in their own time and out of the goodness of their heart.

Plus they are only human and like everyone have good days and bad days.

I have lost count of the times, when a regular has replied to a post in a very nice and gentle manner only to be shot down by the poster jumping down their throat as the advice they have been given is not the advice they want to hear.

So it works both ways.

Chill out and remember that.

Maybe everybody should make a list of all the people who were rude to them,that way it doesn't get taken out on the innocent.