My family currently own two terrier crosses, with whom I compete at agility with and are also training for their silver Good Citizen KC award. Now I live with my partner and 3 fantastic cats, but miss having a dog to greet me at home. These are the problems:

1. My partner isn't keen on getting a dog.
2. The cats are keen on the terriers (understandably as they chase cats)
3. I work full-time, but only around the corner from my home.

Anyone reading this may think 'what is she doing considering a BC?'. Trust me I have thought the same thing! However I have thought about how to overcome the problems above, and the dog's welfare is of top priority to me. I already have approx 5 dog sitters lined up to help me (paid and voluntary), so the dog would not be left for long periods on its own. It's mental stimulation would be a joy to me as I look forward to training a new dog as the others do above, and also sheepdog trials. I would love some feedback be it for the negative or whatever. My current dogs welfare is my chief concern and so would any other new one.

Many thanks,

Gemma

hi gemma, i to have a border collie now 3 and a half years, recently i got a german shepherd puppy,
so long as you have a good source of dog visitors/sitters i dont think that the border will be any trouble.
from my own experience as long as you leave plenty of toys and chewy bones for the border and mind stimulants, i found getting a ball and de squeeking it filled with treats gave my border active stimulation when we were all out.
hope this helps
regards liz

are you planing on getting a puppy?

SaraN - yes. I would like to rescue but I don't think that is fair to my cats or my partner.

Thanks Liz, its useful to know what other BC owners think. My only experience of BC's comes from meeting other peoples at training and friends dogs. My terriers are quite different as you can imagine! I will bear in mind your suggestions when it comes to us taking the plunge and getting a pup!

Many thanks,

Gemma

we have a border collie I found she is very hard work she has a lot of behaviour problems she is from working stock and it has been a hard slogg to get her where she is today and we still have a long way to go she has all the appropriate training and socializing but it hasnt helped she is still very nervous, they can be as a breed. She is a loving pet with us but a monster with strangers and other dogs if you read some of the postings on border collies you will find all sorts of problems worth taking these on board befor you decide. mind saying that even with all the problems we have had and will proberbly encounter I dont think I would change her she is easy to train and has wonderfull way with my children.

Gemma, If you are prepared to put in the time and commitment to training a Border Collie then there is no reason not to go for one.  Activities such as agility is ideal for them.  You will have a better chance of having a well adjusted pet by getting one from a show breeder rather than one bred from working lines. 

You should ensure that the sire and dam have been hip scored and eye tested and the pups are eye tested around 6-7 weeks old.  I don't know where you are, but if you can visit Crufts in March there are likely to be over 300 Border Collies there with their breeders.  Have a walk around the benches and talk to the breeders, it is an ideal opportunity to see them and ask questions. 

Good luck
Sandra

Thanks Sandra. One of my terriers and I are competing at Crufts Young Kennel Club agility contest, so we will be able to check out the breeders there then. I want to get lots of different views before going ahead and getting a puppy. Thanks again - no doubt I will be posting for more information nearer the time!

Thanks for your reply Maglaura. One of my friends has a 'problem' BC and I appreciate it's not easy to solve them. I hope I have the understanding to either solve behavioural problems, or know to seek advice if I can't manage on my own. It's nice to know that your BC gets on well with the children - we haven't any at the moment but in the future we might have. No doubt that might be a bit of a hurdle when that comes along, but I don't want to do children and pups at the same time!

i also have two children aged 8 and 10.
my bc was a pup when we first got her and was pestered by the kids but her manner and temp were excellent especially as the 10year old is disabled and hyper.

Thanks Jvoric - I don't know that many people who have both BC's and kids. It's nice to know that yours is good with them.

Hi there

Just thought I'd say that I have had kids and border collies together as well. I lived on a farm for 10 years and bred working borders. The only problem I  ever encountered with a border and kids was with the old dog (he was 21 when he died). He loved kids when he was younger but wasn't too keen on them the older he got but thats to be understandable. He would never deliberately go for them but he tended to keep out their way. Most of these collies stayed outside and had no socialisation with kids (not the ideal situation with puppies as they do need to be socialised) when they were puppies but absoloutely adored the kids when they were older. I have had a few stay indoors and have had no problems with them either. In my opinion most border collies can be kept with children as long as they are kept active, trained with kindness and understanding.The children must also be taught that dogs are not playthings.

Longwinded (I think so) lol

I'll shut up now.

Alli

Alli - thanks for responding. The more 'long-winded' the better as far as I'm concerned. The more information I can get hold of the more I can make an informed choice. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Hi Gemma,

Just thought I'd share my experience with you (limited though it is!).
We have an 8 month old border collie - he is gorgeous, but has completely changed my life. He's from a show background, and the breeder picked him out for us as the most laid back of the litter. We got him in the summer, so had 5 weeks at home with him to settle him in - I now work 2.5 days a week - round the corner from home. We take him to a training class every week, and my eldest is keen to start agility/flyball when he is old enough.

Days off and my half day - no problem - although my promises to hubby that going part time meant I would be able to keep on top of the housework are a bit of a joke - any spare time is spent out walking or playing.

A typical full working day in winter:
Out at 6.15 for walk over the fields.
7 - youngest takes him to playing field round the corner for short game of football while I get ready for work.
7.15 - Eldest does some training with him then he has breakfast while I do the lunchboxes, etc.
7.45 - all in the car (Sparky inc.) to take kids to school. He loves the trip. and it means I don't have that psychological thing of passing the four hour mark in the length of time he's alone!
8.15 - I dash back in and pop him in his run with a stuffed kong and toys, then go to work.
12.10 - I get home and we have short road walk, then have a play session - lunch? What's that? Sometimes I manage to eat a biscuit as I walk!
12.50 - I dash back to work.
3.40 - Eldest arrives home for training, and Sparky sits with her while she does her homework.
5.00 I arrive home with youngest and he spends the rest of the evening in with us - road walk, more football (that's his favourite), frequent short training sessions, cuddles etc.
By 8.00 he's usually had enough and is ready for bed!

Those two days are pretty hectic, and this is mainly because like your partner, hubby took some persuading to get a dog. Because of that, it all falls on me. I don't mind a bit, but if I was doing this 5 days a week, and without all the back up from the kids, it might have been a different story.

As for evenings out - I have no social life that doesn't involve Sparky, but he is in his bed from 8 anyway, so I do get some time to relax and eat crisps in front of the tele without him trying to pinch them :D. It also means I can still give the kids some time to themselves.

It sounds as if you have plenty of experience, and know what you are letting yourself in for. I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you.

HTH
Tracy

You're quite right, they are slightly different to terriers, in good ways and bad. They do train quite easily, but they also have the intelligence to train you. I'm told BC's from show lines are easier than working stock (Mine came from working stock - she is incredibly hyper.) They do require so much more exercise than you can possibly imagine, my Meg would walk and run all day if given the chance. One thing with BC's is that they do have a tendency to be quite reactive as a breed and some, like Meg can be nervous. You will need to do A LOT of socialisation right from the start. (Although i am sure you realise that.) One thing that would concern me though is that you have cats. I too have cats and despite initial controlled introductions Meg has always seen them as something to chase (she has a very high chase drive) and now the cats rarely come into the main part of the house, where the dogs are. I have been told that with careful introductions a pup can successfully live with cats without bothering them but i'm afraid i haven't managed it. On the plus side though they are really lovely dogs, who quickly form a strong attachment with their owners. I also have a golden retriever and i hate to admit it but i have a stronger bond with my BC, i think possibly because they are bred over many years to be one man dogs. (one man and his dog sort of thing). They are also great for obedience, agility and fly ball.
good luck with whatever you decide to do.

My main worry if you can call it that is your first problem - that your partner isn't keen. I know you did say you have an idea as to how to overcome this though - and i wish you luck :)

Lindsay

Id have to say, all the problems you outline are surmountable....bar the 'partner isnt keen' bit.......

How do you intend to get him to want a dog (and u must make sure he wants a dog, and not just that he will put up with it)....... i know first hand how hard it is when one person doesnt want a dog. Its not a road to go down lightly, if at all.

Em

Dear Em,

Have you had experience of this situation i.e a partner not wanting a dog? I hope nothing awful like splitting up happened as that's not what I want to do at all! Believe me the thought had crossed my mind! However, wanting a dog isn't a whim and my partner knows and knew that when he first met me. I have actually made the statement that if dogs aren't included in a future with him then perhaps we need to think seriously about being together. I wouldn't want a life without pets - I guess you wouldn't either otherwise you wouldn't post messages on this forum.

Hiya,

My situation was a little different, the biggy was when me and my mother lived together, she got me a 6 month old terrier x pup.

It lasted six months in the house, everythingn i tried to train it she untrained (she is from the 'rolled up newspaper and rub the nose in it' school of dog training) and one day she took the dog to a dogs home when i was out.

Currently i share my house with a friend, he knows there are dogs here, and when he moved in, he said he would basically do as he was told as far as the dogs are concerned. However he does not, and again, where im spending time training the dogs he can undo a weeks work in one night.
I had a big discussion with him last night about this in fact. One of my dogs is going through a barky phase, i ignore this and reward quiet behaviour. However occasionally Stef is left with the dogs, and when they bark at him he ignores it for ages and then gives in and does what they want, ie plays, treats etc, anything to shut them up. He NEVER realises that this makes it worse, as the dogs are effectively being taught that if you try hard enough it WILL work......and so we have frequent rows about MY dogs annoying him, when its usually him wrecking the hard work ive put in.

That is bad enough when its a mother/daughter or housemate/houseowner relationship, it can be even more destructive when you have a more close, involved relationship.

I hope it works out for you though, we struggle on here, and Stef seemed to listen to last nights 'discussion'....lol.

Em

Thanks for replying Em. I think I see what you were getting at, and I can see how that might be a problem in my own relationship. However I think when it comes down to it, Matt (the boyfriend) will probably want to help train the dog with me as he appreciates that it wouldn't be any good if the dog only did things for me. It won't happen for a while anyway, perhaps another year or more as I want to save up the money to pay for everything outright. But i will use that time, because I want to have tried to think of everything before we go ahead.

Thanks again x

Do you know anyone you can borrow dogs off, for weekends etc?

Just occured to me, it might be a good way to show your partner what is involved in owning a dog.....my housemate i think thought it would all be cuddles on the sofa and lovely walks in the summer.....he realises now its not!

See if you can test run some dogs for a while (lol, ive got a lurcherlet here ill lend you, he is a right pain in the backside) and see what your partner thinks.

It can work out well, but equally it can all end in tears!

Em

In principle a good plan - but I have a feeling it would only make him more certain that he doesn't want dogs in the house! The cats will take a little while getting used to a dog - to start with they will probably hide a lot and be very nervous. I know these initial responses will get better - I do know my little felines very well and they aren't your average moggies. However Matt will find it hard to start with as they can be very good at making a fuss! A weekend wouldn't be long enough for them to overcome these responses unfortunately.

Dear Lindsay - that's the reason I haven't taken the plunge yet! These men can be stubborn when they want can't they! We're working on it though - he knows this is important to me. Thanks for replying.

Eeek! I thought having a puppy with the cats from the beginning would be the answer - perhaps not! However our terriers who have a very strong chase instinct didn't chase the cats they grew up with, although they do now since the eldest passed away. And in fact they are fine with cats who stand up to them rather than run away. I may have to see about socialising my cats with dogs before getting a puppy. Thank you for letting me know your experience, I will certainly bear it in mind.

Dear TracyL,
It sounds as busy as I expected it might be! However that doesn't put me off - as you say, your hubbie isn't keen so it all falls to you. Some people (non dog folk), might call that a burden or a nusiance. For me that's the last thing I would call it. Owning a dog and sharing its life is one of the most rewarding things I can think of. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I hope to keep you posted of my progress!

Hi Gemma,

I have two BC's (and also live in Bristol!), one is nearly 5 years, and the second is coming up to 2. I'm 15, got my BC when I was 10... knowing virtually nothing about dogs but was absolutely mad about them and was dying to do agility! He is from very strong working lines but is the most laid back, lazy couch potato ever! (Apart from when it comes to agility!). I was strict with him when he was a pup and didn't let him get away with too much - he has absolutely brilliant manners, great with the cat and other cats that he sees on walks (deliberately looks away when he sees one!).
My second BC was my sisters, who got fed up with her so now I'm doing the training :), she is from show lines and is completely opposite to Rix, mad, naughty, VERY noisy, and always always always wanting to please. She is absolutely awful with our cat, will never touch her, but treats her as a sheep, spends all her time watching the cat, stalking it etc. However when Rix was a pup he was discouraged from showing any interest in cats, where as the 2nd was allowed (it was funny at the time!).

Our daily routine is:
6.30: Up to take the dogs out for their 45 min walk (in the summer we get up at 6am so we can get a 2 mile road walk in).
8:00: Dogs are fed
8.35: I leave for school so put the dogs into their kennel
12.30: Dad comes home to take the dogs for an hours walk
3.45: I come home from school and take the dogs up the local park to do 45mins obedience training with them and do some tricks with them
6pm: Me and dad take them out for half hours walk
7pm: Dogs are fed
10.30pm: Dad takes dogs out for a quick walk so they can go to the loo.

On a Tuesday evening we take them both to ringcraft, Wednesday agility training (1hr each), and any other day we will go to our private obedience trainer. Doing either the agility or obedience really tires them out, we have had a club league match today and both dogs are crashed out at my feet (have been for the last 2 hours!). Both dogs have worked sheep, my youngest was far the best at it even though she's got hardly any working lines in her. I would love to do it again but there aren't enough weekends in the year.

If you could teach her something, such as obedience and tricks, I find half an hour of this is much more tiring for them than an hours walk. Neither of them have ever had problems when they are left when I'm at school. You say you only work around the corner, would you be able to pop home at lunch (I know you said you could have dog sitters) to just do a bit of play/training with the dog, and perhaps once a week agility to really keep it stimulated? You do sound like you're dead keen on getting a dog, so as long as you it has enough exercise/stimulation to keep it happy then I don't see any problem.

Char

Char

Hi Char - first of all which agility club? Is it Clifton, only I know they train on Weds nights? Thanks for replying to my message. I'm starting to think getting a BC might not be such a daft idea after all. Putting the time in doesn't worry me - you get everything you put in back only tenfold more with dogs.

Yep it's Clifton! There is also Severnside, I think they train on a Thursday, at the hand equestrian centre, about 5mins down the road! There is also a flyball thing on a sunday where we train although it's not run by our club.

If you do decide to get a BC and are thinking of doing agility with it, get on the waiting list quickly as waiting lists are usually quite long.

I know many people who work full time and have a BC, but they put the effort in when home from work, dogs get long walks at weekends and are stimulated by agility/obedience/flyball in the evenings.

H2H

Char

Hi Char - I know about Severnside - I'm a member there already! I almost joined Clifton myself (my friend Wendy with Meg, Desmo & Zen tried to get me there!), but I'd already started at Severnside by then. We train on the same nights unfortunately. Who knows we may have already briefly met because of Wendy!

Hi Gemma,

Yep I know who you are! Have seen you at club with Wendy. I'm 15 and I'm the one who has a very mad fast BC, you may also know who Amber is, a year younger than me, trains at clifton too?

Char

Hi Char,

Yep I thought that was you! We should meet up to take the dogs out or something. I'm in Nailsea, so perhaps Ashton Court would be about half-way?

I've got a show on Sunday so this weekend is a bit busy, but perhaps next? Let me know what you think.

Take care,

I also have a Border Collie who is 9 months old and finally turning the corner! We have a cat as well, whom Evie is terrified of. I have to say I prefer it this way round though, as Evie is perfectly capable of holding her own if she should so wish. She is excellent with children and people in general, is very sweet-natured and gets on well with dogs she knows. On the other hand, she pulls on the lead, is very hyper, barks at strange dogs and still chews the furniture on occasion! It takes a lot of work, but they are a great breed if you are prepared to put the extra effort in. You sound very experienced and I'm sure you'll make the right decision. Good luck!
Bonnie

Thanks Bonnie, your girl sounds a lot like one of my friends baby BC. She's also a lot of work (!) but worth every minute. I thought people might try a put me off, but everyone has been really nice. Thank you for taking the time to answer my message.

I had Border Collies up until 1996 when my last BC Poppy died old age.  Wonderful dogs and so intelligent.   I was younger then also and would walk the hills near to where I live.  They can be monkeys and I felt I had to have my wits about me.  I wish you lots of luck and if you do go ahead hope your BC gives you so many years of pleasure and love as much as you will give him/her.

Dear Tessa,

Thanks for replying. It sounds like you have had some very special BC's in the past. I hope to follow in your footsteps.

Hiya
I have a 3 year old rescued collie and she came to us at 6 months, she has always been fine with my 3 cats and also my other dog who is also a rescue.  However it was the pup that scared the cats off, we though getting a pup would be better, but she was too mad for the cat so she went for a couple of weeks then came back.  So don't rule out a rescue, here are some sites with collies needing homes just so you can see whats about.  Also rescue dogs are cat tested to see if they get on and you can take your terriers to see if they get on together.
http://www.it-barks.co.uk/rescue2/rescue2.htm - there's a gorgeous blue and white on this site
http://195.184.239.210/active/rescueme.HTML - Rescue dogs suitable for agility - agilitynet
http://www.bordercollietrustgb.org.uk/
http://www.wiccaweys.co.uk

What YKC agility are you doing as I am competing in the YKC at Crufts too with my collie. 

Hi Gemma,
I have a 4y/o Ws/Bc (no known papers; could be either!)  She orginally came from a farm, but the family who had her before me 'couldn't cope' with her, so at 11wks I took her.  Willow, my collie, is my best mate.  No one I know quibbles that!  She has got me through some hard times (not without the typical trauma's of puppyhood and some other problems!)
I remember about  3 or so yrs ago I finished with a b/f as Willow didn't like him, and he didn't listen to what I was saying about behaviour and training (Willow would be sitting on my bed, the ex would say 'down,' and Willow would lie down on the bed, then the ex would repeat his earlier command till I turned and said 'she is down; if you want her off the bed the commands' 'off.''  It was very infuriating, and he had to go!
Now I'm engaged to someone who pretty much leaves training etc to myself - which I love!  We don't live together yet, but I know he will be consistent with commands etc. because he knows what it means to me (I train in Obedience Trials), plus he loves Willow, and anyone who likes my dog can't be all that bad!

Just thought I'd share my experience of bc's and relationships!

MW

MW - Thank you - perhaps there is hope for me and b/f after all! Your fiance sounds perfect for you - lucky thing!! And Willow sounds like just the sort of dog I'd like to meet - even luckier thing!!!

Hi Gina - thanks for replying. I'm going to check out those website addresses, as I'd love to try a rescue dog.
As for the YKC - I don't really know exactly what it is! I received a letter and entry form titled 'Crufts 2004 Senior Agility', and filled in the entry form and sent it back. I haven't had any more information about it at the moment, so I assume it's a small agility show within the confines of Crufts. Perhaps you could tell me more? If you're going to be there it might be nice to meet up?

Hiya
Yes I am competing in the senior agility, you can see my collie on my website which is on my profile if you click on my name.  You will spot us eaily as I think she's the only crazed white and blue merle thing with 2 blue eyes around lol!

Gina