Hi, my 5 month old cocker spaniel has Burns twice a day, morning and evening.  For his lunchtime treat I have started giving him one raw chicken wing, he loves it and is getting on very well, I may consider changing him to BARF diet later but at the moment I am not confident enough, I'm worried he won't get all his vitamins/nutrients (yes, he is my first dog :) ).  But I am finding it difficult to find fresh chicken wings in our local supermarket and butchers :( but can buy fresh chicken drumsticks.  Would it be alright to give him drumsticks, I am asking because the bone looks much bigger than the bones in the wings and I am frightened he will choke or won't be able to chew it.
Jax

Hi Jax.

You could always buy chicken wings in quantity and freeze :D

You can feed your puppy any part of the chicken, he is perfectly able to cope with drumsticks, thighs, carcases etc.

If you purchase Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kmythy Schulze you will find a complete breakdown of vitamin/nutrient sources which can be provided more than adequately by correct raw feeding.

HTH

i agree any part of the chicken is acceptable.i feed necks which cost me 23p per lb as well as the wings,legs,carcasses which are about 12p per lb.as long as you add the veggie mush to the meal the vitamin levels will be ok.

Actually all vitamins required by dogs can be found in meat, offal etc (provided it is from more than just chickens) and they synthesise their own Vitamin C. 

Not all breeds synthesise their own vitamin C, tohme. Dalmatians are one that can't, and I'm sure there must be others.
:)

Oh sure and obviously not all produce enough just as some animals have problems with insulin, thyroid etc

So Tohme are you saying that if you feed a selection of chicken, pork and some offal, dogs don't need anything else in their diet?  I only ask because I thought dogs in the wild got their vegetable needs from the stomachs of the animals they eat.

Fiona

in the barf book ,it recomends some meals of raw but finely chopped veggies

It is a common misconception that wild canids eat the contents of the prey animal's stomach; numerous studies have shown that is not the case :D  A lot depends on a) the species of wild canids and b) the availability of food eg time of year, competition etc

In general stomach contents would be rejected as, prey animals being herbivores, the various digestive acids would be too strong and the contents not digested enough for the dog to eat.  Some contents of the small intestine are ingested by some animals however, by which time the food is more "acceptable" :D

Whatever vegetable matter is eaten by canids it would be no more than 10% of the overall intake maximum; it is an "also have" rather than a "must have"

I thought load bearing bones shouldnt be given or is this just other meat sources other than chicken - is a drumstick loadbearing not sure LOL :)

Gina

PS Mind you the neck could be loadbearing in some people I personally know!!! :D :D

Hi Jax,
My 5 month cocker is fed barf as you probably know from earlier posts.  I have to agree with Tohme.  I found Kymythy Schultze's book titled Natural nutrition for dogs and cats an absolute godsend.  It is more concise and simple than Billinghurst in my opinion.  My cocker is my first dog too and it couldn't be easier (honestly)

I buy the 'value' box of chicken wings from Tesco £1.17 for about 10 - 12 wings or the Asda 'smartprice' ones.  I find the Asda ones smaller than the Tesco ones lately.  I give my pup 3 or 4 wings a day for one meal, I just bag up the wings and pop in the freezer and then just defrost as and when needed.

I don't feed any veg now though as very time consuming and made her a bit loose.  I also give no grains at all.  My pup is thriving and people have even come up to me when we're out walking to say what a lovely shine she has to her coat (golden cocker) lol.

Anyway hope this helps
All the best
Linda. 
p.s. my mother feeds Burns for 2 meals and ch/wings for evening meal and she is using up her Burns and going barf full time shortly as well.  (if my mother can do it anyone can)

Hi Tohme and Linda
Many thanks, I have ordreded Kymythy Schultze's book, Natural nutrition for dogs and cats.  Barney has now had two small chicken drumsticks and had no problems with them.
Jax

When you read or hear about people discussing load bearing bones they are talking about beef in general :D  Chickens only live for a few weeks, have hardly any load to carry and their bones are still "plastic".  The reason that "load bearing bones" such as shin bones are not recommended is a) because they are very hard and can break teeth and b) they should be viewed as "recreational" rather than "consumable".  They are fine to have marrow sucked out, and cartilage etc stripped off to pass the time however they should be removed once this has been completed.

HTH

Hi im new! all of my collies have been on Barf for years. as the bone is important, wings have a better meat/bone ratio,so would be better even if you have to feed more, but drumsticks would be fine now & again if you ran out! i buy a quanity from the butcher, spilt them into freezer bags of 1meal per meal & freeze!

i brought some chicken wings from asda yesterday after reading this page and couldn't wait to get home to see whatthey thought!!
gave them raw obviously. Bailey (11 weeks) loved it, although it didn't take him long to eat. Taz (2) wouldn't touch it turned his nose up and sat by the cupboard awaiting something else. The wing sat in his bowl and bailey came to eat that too. Then 5 minuites later he brought it back - WHOLE!! he reconsumed it though, this time with some chewing. He loved them. Will try Taz again - but doubt he will give in, he is very very fussy, glad bailey isn't the same though. Also brought some Nutro, trying this instead of Bakers. Again bailey tucked in - Taz refused the first time, begrudgingly ate it the second time!!

Be careful about switching from one diet to another suddenly like that - it often leads to upset tummies :(

If a dog has never seen what real food looks like before they very often do not know what to do with it :D  I had a 10 month old dog that when I got him had never seen raw food before, he did not eat until the third day and from that day on the food rarely hit the ground!

In general very very few dogs have trouble changing from commercial to raw "cold turkey", there are some it is true, but not many.

Dogs have to "learn" how to eat raw food and often will rush and then reaquaint themselves with it and chew it again :D  This happens in nature.

If Taz does not have a choice I very much doubt he will starve himself to death.  Think of like children who turn their noses up when they go abroad to "strange" things before they have even given it a chance :D

Where can I buy ORGANIC chicken wings/legs/parts ?? the only organic chicken I can find is whole chickens (obviously minus the feathers and beak ;) ) and im a bit of a veggie wuss and cant stand ripping apart raw bird :D :D

You need to go through your Yellow Pages or surf the net for organic producers in your area.  You can then get carcases and wings from them.  You need to find those that supply supermarkets etc with breast fillets.

HTH

hello there
             i would advise that what ever chicken bones you deside on before feeding them put them  in a plastic bag and smash them up with a hammer before feeding
                                             hope this helps

Personally i would not crush the bones!!!! the dogs meant to do that!

no i also wouldnt crush the bones, Toby does this himself and makes it look so easy, i think for him this is part of the enjoyment,
Heidi