I've been meaning to ask this for a while, Issysmum, What is a Toller? Schip, What is a Schiperke?

Sorry if spelt wrong, :o :)

Linda

Hi:

A Toller is a Nova Scotia Duck Toller Retriever (from Canada). It is a medium size breed (about the size of a border collie). It has a coat color about what the color would be if you crossed a golden retriever with an irish setter. It's original use was to lure ducks into close range for the hunters to shoot. Then it would retrieve. It lured the ducks close to shore by waving its tail in a friendly, there's nothing wrong over here attitude. They need a lot of exercise. They usually have a white blaze on their chest.

A schipperke is a small bushy coated black dog. I think it is tailless. It is a Scandanavian breed (?) which would live on the barge with its master. I'm not all that sure that I've represented the schipperke well.

Hope that helps,
Butter

The Schipperke is Belgian, not Scandinavian, its other name is The Belgian Barge Dog.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

The Schipperke is a smallish spitz type dog,about 12 to 16 lb. Most are black but I have seen brown and also dark cream. It is docked but would have a spitz type tail if left intact (carried over back) prick eared, dence thick coat, in fact a typical spitz type, although I've heard it said that that are not spitz. Jackie H

Schipp's aren't all docked, they can be born with short tails. One goes to our training club and it's cream.

Stand corrected, standard says 'Customarily docked', and I belived it. Jackie H

It lured the ducks close to shore by waving its tail in a friendly, there's nothing wrong over here attitude. Sorry, but I had to laugh at that.

The Toller goes into the water, just at the edge, to put up the ducks and then retrieves them once they have been shot. The Toller is very similar in appearance to a fox, well the ducks think so :D , and for this reason they make excellent decoy dogs. There are 39 Tollers entered at Crufts so if you are able to watch the coverage on BBC2 (Sunday 7pm onwards) you might get to see some.

Fiona

Have a look at this link, and you'll see some pictures .

The pictures are taken from John Norris' Decoymans website.

When I used to run the gundog parade for the Welsh Game Fair, we were told by the handlers of Koikerhundje and other decoy breeds that the waving tail of the dogs lured the ducks into long nets down a kind of drain, where the ducks were actually trapped and caught; not necessarily shot. Again, for some reason, the waving tail actually attracted the ducks.

There are several old prints depicting this.

Has anyone first-hand experience of this phenomenon?

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Am I being a bit thick cos I am upset about Barney tonite (who's laying at my feet and not wanting a cuddle but getting one every 5 mins!!) but how can they wave their "docked" tail !!!! LOL ????? Gina

It's the Schips that are docked, not the Tollers

Ohhhh right !! o:

Like a Cocker I supose. JH

Schipperkes are not always docked as I breed them and keep tails on all my puppies - our breed standard now includes a tail description as do all breed standards of customarily docked breeds, if you take a look at the kennel club site they are in the Utility group.

I had 2 undocked and 1 docked one at Crufts yesterday with my docked dog taking limit dog (breed largest class) handled by Bec - my undocked ones were not of the type Mr Brace liked lol.

Thanks everyone for their information. Sorry its taken me a while to get back to the board. I have been watching Crufts each day and of course am now a little more clued up on both breeds (as least as far as looks are concerned). Went along yesterday - very long day as we were half way there when we realised we'd left the tickts at home!! We also stayed for BIS, which made it very late indeed. The main problem being the food on offer was awful! I'm taking sarnies next time!

The heel work to music had me and several ladies sat near me in tears - not sure why!?! It was wonderful!

:D

I know what you mean about the heelwork to music...guess I was all tired and emotional!!
Jackie

I was definitely tired - long day like I said - but I think more emotional than anything else. Martin has finally succumbed to my persuasion and has agreed I can have a puppy!!! He told me while we were at Crufts and I burst in to tears - in the middle of one of the bars!!! :O After that, I'd have been sobbing at just about anything I think :)

So, the Great Puppy Hunt is on... Slightly mad home waiting for Weimaraner boy.... :D