as far as I can tell there is only one veterinary practice in the uk at present that operates the penn hip testing system.if any readers would like details on this subject please e-mail me at paul@toska.fsnet.co.uk   I have just had my 16 month old boerboel bitch done as I consider this system to be far more accurate than what is presently available.she was found to be DJD free in both hips.her elbows were scored using the bva system as the penn hip system only deals with hip joints.

In what way is it superior to our BVA scheme.  I have read the detailed Criteria for scoring of the BVA scheme and it is very detailed looking at different aspects of the hip. 

US sources seem to be very divided over Pennhip as it sometimes has widely disparate results from their OFA system.  Must admit I am not so keen on the grading system schemes, like OFA, as unlike our numeric scores you don't know how close to Excellent an OFA Good is, or how close to Fair, or how close to good the fair is, or is it nearly borderline?

Have always thought the system woolly to Brainless and do the owners get to know the balance of the hips because it is not clear to anyone else. I for one would use a nice dog or bitch with a score of 14 but not if that was 13/1 as to my mind the one hip is in the 26 bracket, if you see what I mean.

Had not thought of it before but if it is done in this country by only one person is this the case in the USA too that the result is whatever the 1 person says, a bit like heart testing in this country. If so it is open to abuse, like the heart test, if you don't like the score have it done else where, just ask around and find out who gives the best results. I may be wrong and it may require several people to declare the results but it that is at the same clinic it is still open to abuse I would have thought.

hip X-rays using the penn hip system are sent to pensylvania university and are all scored by one person.there fore the standard is constant and totally impartial.no one breeder has the opportunity to be favoured as their name is not known so results cannot be influenced in any way.three x-rays are taken of the hips giving a 3-d view of the hips which gives a more accurate overall picture of the hips rather than one viw only.possibly what you would call progress or certainly the way foward fo better breeding.

The main problem for any breeder is the way in which hip displaysia is inherited. The disease is considered to be polygenic in nature, so even the best most responsible breeders making huge efforts cannot do anything to eradicte this problem, and no hip scoring scheme will do any better either. All anyone can do is use their knowledge and with the help of a hip scoring scheme breed from low scoring stock and hope that over time the breeds overall status will improve.
One thing is for sure, if you have, for example, a dog who wins a major show award such as best in show at Crufts, regardless of whether he has good or bad hips, under any scheme, somebody somewhere will use him at stud because he is such a good example of his breed. It should be remembered the dog is more than it's hip score anyway. What good is a dog with a perfect score for breeding if it has a bad temperament or a health problem such as for example, a heart defect?

I quite agree with what you are saying polly and also think that responsible breeding has got to start somewhere.if a dog has a bad temperament you shouldnt even cosider breeding from it.if it has a good temperament and is healthy then the next step I think should be get its hips and elbows tested.make sure then that the dog you breed it with is alsothe same.this will not guarantee perfect puppies but it will up the chances of getting healthy pups.remember nature can do some strange things despite trying to cover every eventuality.

a 3D picture of the hips and a totally impartial scoring system where the breeder is not known only the x-rays that are seen has got to be the way foward for better breeding quality standards which I would have thought was what any responsible breeder would wish to acheive.

But Paul the result does not mean anything or help the breeder to assess which hip or where the problem lies, so how will that help toward responsible breeding and how can one persons opinion be better than that of a panel. The dogs name is not on the plate, just the number, do you really think that the members of the panel go and look up the number of each dogs plates they are examining in case one may be a friend. Add to that the fact that most people will wish to see the result of hip scoring as done in the UK  before even considering using a dog at stud or buying a pup from dogs not holding a certificate of scoring in the country of their residence, unless of course they are imported when exceptions may be made if the results of protégée are satisfactory.

as aIndividual  i believe that three x-rays have got to be better than one.both hips are given individual scores according to their tightness as measured using one standard for all the results not from several individuals.systems used are down to individuals and personally I consider the penn hip system to be far more accurate in its results and will not consider having my bitch covered by any dog that has not been penn hip scored and shown by this method to be hjd free as mine has been.fortunatly the boerboel has not yet been recognised by the kennel club of great britain and as such is at the moment unspoilt and is still in its original happy ,healthy state.

I'm of the opinion that "If it aint broke don't fix it." The BVA KC scheme has been running for a long time now. To my mind it's possibly the most informative in the world. Every one with ant experience can interpret the results when they see the report and all dogs are scored in the same way. I dont see the need for another scheme any more than I see an need for an alternative to the KC/BVA/ISDS eye testing scheme.

Regards, John

I agree with John, that we should all try to stick to the official BVA/KC scheme because breeders here are used to it and we understand. So when we see a hip score, we can make certain assumptions about the hip status. This is not to say it or any one scheme is better than another, but if you and other breeders can understand the results of the scheme you choose and make descisions based on the overall good points of the dog or bitch, it will in time help reduce the higher scores in theory.
Nature does do some strange things. An example of a bitch I bred, was that the dam scored 0 - 0 = 0 the sire was 2 - 2 = 4 this bitch scored 11 - 18 = 28! The only way to really understand the inheritance pattern of any such disease would I think mean every breeder, even pet dog owners who breed a litter, hip scoring every puppy they ever bred, over many generations. I and many experienced breeders understand that hip status can be affected by a number of factors, which all affect the score, diet, exercise, hereditary factors and injury can change the result your dog ends up with. A bitches score can change depending on how close a season she is at the time of the x-ray and most vets will reccommend you aim to x-ray mid way between seasons.

Hi Paul 

Have you had your dog scored under the UK scheme as well as the Penn Hip scheme - it would be interesting to compare the results.  You also say your dog is DJD and HJD free - what do you mean?