Hi all and a Hapy New Year to everyone.
We are really at our wits end with our Border Collie.
She has just turned 1 years old and we have had her for 9 months now.
The problem we KEEP having with her is that she ALWAYS has to be center of attention and seeks it constantly. If she doesen't get it she starts to winge!
Another problem we have is that she won't always eat her dinner! When she does eat it she needs an audience to tell her what a good girl she is and if she doesen't get it she won't eat the rest OR she will always leave a small amount in her bowl and will only finish it off if we again say good girl eat your dinner!.
and another problem is that she knows the word stay but if we go out of the room next thing she is right behind!!
She has to be where ever we are!! it is driving us mad and she will never sit still! even if we are watching tv we can't sit and watch it in peace as she is always in your face wanting attention!
During the day we put her in the garden for a while (providing weather is suitable) and all she does is lay down but if we are outside also she will play on her own!
She also is very stubborn and although she knows her commands she won't do as she is told unless we raise our voice or move towards her!
Please help she is causing us stress as it is constant 24 hours a day she never gives us any relief!!

Thank You

Sorry!!!!!!! but do you want to keep this little girlie because it sounds like she is just to much trouble for you,? she wont eat with out some one telling her what a good girl she is? just put the food down and walk away, she will not play on her own well thats boring give her some things to play with and show her thay are fun, she will not leave you alone? she loves you???????it is you that needs to be trained on how to look after a dog. Being a BC she needs to be doing any thing most of the time, have you got a baby gate this way you can put her bed in one room and put the gate up so she cant get to you so long as she is well fed had good walk she can then be put to bed for a hour or so, just walk away and dont take any notice for a while,you chill out and she can do thesame.

I agree with CG a baby gate would be a great starting point.  She has become too dependant on you, it is a familiar trait with a Border Collie, also known as attention seeking.

If you let them they will run your life, she needs to learn attention is on your terms and not hers.  To start, get the gate, separate yourself from her for short periods to start with, then build it up to longer periods.  When you enter the area you leave her in, ignore her, don't make a fuss of her and the same when you leave.

On saying this, you need to spend some quality time with her, but on your terms and when you are ready and in the right frame of mind.  There is nothing a Border Collie likes more then short training sessions.  You can't expect to tell her to stay and leave the room without building up this type of excercise slowly.  I suspect you have fallen into the trap of telling her to stay and not returning to release her from it.  If you use a stay command, concentrate that time on her and don't forget to return to her for the release, don't call her to you.  If you call her to you or just let her release herself she is anticipating it and will never settle.  She will settle much more readily if she knows you will return to her.

Teach her things like shake a paw, roll over, anything that occupies her mind.  One of the most important things to do with training a BC is teach the 'release' command.  When you have finished with her, say something like 'that will do'.  They will soon pick up on this and switch off, but I can't stress enough that you must mean it, don't just do something else because....... she has been so good/she wants to/just once more.

I know it won't be easy to start with, but you must ignore her demands, she will get the message as long as you spend some quality time with her on a one to one basis regularly.

Sandra

Hi,
We are very offended about what you said as we were only asking for help!! and we shouldn't have to explain ourseves to you or anyone. There are alot of people out there who are so cruel to their pets and treat them badly and that is something that we would never do.
If you had the problems we had then you might be more understanding!
We adore our collie and have always been there for her, she was so scared when we got her & for that reason we chose her because we knew we could give her all the love & attention & plenty of exercise and playtime she needs.
How silly are you when I said about her playing on her own! did you seriously think we mean't play without any toys!!! do you do that to a child!!!

She always has food & she always has fresh water during the day. We have just put her food down and walked away but when we do this she won't eat her dinner unless we are with her!!!
She is always in sight of us when we do tell her to stay! but because we are ignoring her she will winge!!!
She gets walked and has a good run over the park, we have a tennis raquet and hit the ball so she can fetch it and has a good run out of it.

She has plenty of attention & cuddles and often fallls asleep on our laps!

So since we do all of these things anything else you want to add about how horrible we are and that we don't want our dog!!!

Excuse me !!!!  What have I said to offend you???  I have taken the trouble of typing up a constructive reply to you, having had Border Collies for some 20 years I thought (silly me) my experiences might help you.

No one has suggested you don't feed or water her.  The fact that she has "plenty of attention and cuddles" might be part of your problem.  No one has said you are horrible either.

Sometime I wonder why I bother

Sandra

Hi,
The reason why I said that was because you were implying that we didn't want our dog!!
I am grateful for you taking time out to offer us some help but if you read your reply in our eyes you would be offended.

Anyway we think you are right in saying we have given her too much love & attention and that is our problem as I have just posted saying that on the site.

I don't wish to fall out with you but all we were trying to do was get some help not only for us but for our dog too.

angeldust

Angeldust

Please read my post again.  No where have I said or implied that you didn't want your dog.

Sandra

Hi Sandrah

I AM SO VERY VERY SORRY AND I WILL EAT HUMBLE PIE!!!

I AM NEW TO THIS AND I WAS REPLYING TO THE WRONG PERSON!!!!

IT WAS NOT INTENDED FOR YOU BUT FOR CORSO GIRL!!!

WILL YOU PLEASE EXCEPT MY SINCERE APOLIGIES BIG TIME I THOUGHT I HAD REPLIED TO YOU THANKING YOU FOR YOUR CONSTRUCTIVE HELP ETC SOMEONE ELSE OBVIOUSLY HAS THE MESSAGE INTENDED FOR YOU

PUBLICLY I AM SO VERY SORRY

angeldust

Angeldust

Apology accepted gracefully ;)

Have a think about what I have said in my original post about her being too dependant on you, I really think this is the way to start.  I am off to bed now but if I can be of any further help then feel free to post again.

Please let us know how you get on, it is always nice to recieve a reply if things are improving.  As she has developed this habit over nine months you will not solve it overnight, but you will solve it, take it a small step at a time and be consistant with her.

Good luck
Sandra

Hi Sandrah

Thank You for your forgiveness I am truly grateful and I feel terrible for the big mistake I made you are a lovely lady.

We do think that what you said about her being too dependant on us is right, we love her so much and we thought by doing this she would be very happy feel very loved & feel so secure!

We won't ever give up trying as she is worth her weight in gold and truly a fantastic friend & companion we just want it to be right for her!

We will perservere and let you know how we are getting on.

Take Care
angeldust

Well I have probably offended you further - sorry. I didn't read this post until after I sent mine.  Your second post does contradict your first one somewhat though.
Sally

Hi Sally,

Well yes you did also offend us but Thank You for your next message.
It seem's like we are being got at and if only everyone knew just how much we do do for her!
so is loved so much and wouldn't be without her all we are asking for is some help & advice!
I thought that was what this site is for not for being judged!!!
Why does everyone get the wrong idea and not look and read it properly!! look into whats really being said!!
All we ant is the best for her & for us is that too much to ask??

angeldust

Sorry again.  I realise you love her very much.  email  isn't the best medium to talk on without being misunderstood.  I'll tell you about some of mine before I took them on and then you may understand why my first thought is always with the dog and it's wellbeing and why I react so passionately.  Tig was going to be pts for biting.  He was defending himself.  He had been punished for housetraining accidents and puppy biting and at 7 months old he decided enough was enough.  Jazz had 3 homes before he was 4 months.  Just a normal, very exuberant border collie.  Hovis was a puppy farm stud dog.  Never walked, never spoken to, never fussed.  He is still mentally disturbed.  Dee, we took on because she was aggressive around food.  Because the breeder trough fed the litter she grew up fighting for food.  When she guarded her food from her new owner at 8 weeks old they took it away and punished her.  The problem got worse and worse but they continued to punish her for it.  She was also a car chaser.  Kim was bought by a family from a farmer and both his parents were trialing champions.  When he was 16 weeks old they claimed he was aggressive so he ended up in rescue.  Lucy was very much loved by her family but she was destructive indoors and as they had no fencing she had to be chained up outside.  When a chicken wandered into her space she killed it.  She was given a very severe thrashing and they genuinely believed that they were doing the right thing and that she would never kill a chicken again.  All of these collies do agility apart from Hovis.  They are all sociable - apart from Hovis and they are all reliable off lead, retrieve, do loads of tricks and are very happy - including Hovis.

Hi Sally,

Yes it is very very hard to be understood.

We understand everything you have said and know that all BC can be so different.
She is just great in most things apart from the silly things that are happening now, We feel we gave her too much love & attention and now she is far too dependant on us.
We just don't know how to change it around although we will try & try.

angeldust

It will take a long time to get her to be less dependant on you because of all the attention you have lavished on her thus far. 
Start with the feeding though.  Give her her dinner and then walk away or get on with whatever needs doing in the kitchen.  If she doesn't eat it then pick it up, and that must be it until the next meal time.  Don't offer it again later.  2 meals a day if that isn't what you do already.
I suggest that you have periods during the day where she will get 100% attention - playing, training, grooming. Telly off, answer machine on.  Followed by short periods of no attention at all where she must be invisible.  At the end of the period of attention you must give her some sort of signal that she will come to recognise as meaning ' okay I'm busy now, can't be here for you.'  Maybe a pat on the side and "that's it".  You must be absolutely consistent in resisting her attempts to get your attention though during these periods and she will try harder at first.  How many of these periods and how long they are you will have to work out depending on your circumstances and how she copes.
Like I said before training should be positive and rewarding.  Don't assume she knows what you mean just because you think you have taught it to her.  Try clicker training maybe.  There's no need to raise your voice unless you suspect she is deaf.  In fact if I want my dogs to listen I whisper.  Good luck.  Keep us informed of progress. Sally

Hi,
We are very offended about what you said as we were only asking for help!! and we shouldn't have to explain ourseves to you or anyone. There are alot of people out there who are so cruel to their pets and treat them badly and that is something that we would never do.
If you had the problems we had then you might be more understanding!
We adore our collie and have always been there for her, she was so scared when we got her & for that reason we chose her because we knew we could give her all the love & attention & plenty of exercise and playtime she needs.
How silly are you when I said about her playing on her own! did you seriously think we mean't play without any toys!!! do you do that to a child!!!

She always has food & she always has fresh water during the day. We have just put her food down and walked away but when we do this she won't eat her dinner unless we are with her!!!
She is always in sight of us when we do tell her to stay! but because we are ignoring her she will winge!!!
She gets walked and has a good run over the park, we have a tennis raquet and hit the ball so she can fetch it and has a good run out of it.

She has plenty of attention & cuddles and often fallls asleep on our laps!

So since we do all of these things anything else you want to add about how horrible we are and that we don't want our dog!!! 

I may be getting in over my head here but I once had a border collie and jack russell cross.  I know it sounds bizarre but the dog was a miniature border collie with all its traits and also the nippy traits of a terrier.  We got it from the dog rescue and it had all your dogs traits and more.  After 3 weeks we didn't think we could cope and then when we phoned the rescue one of their staff came down and talked to us about the implications this dog had and it would be a lot of work (might have done that on day one I think!!).  However, we decided to keep her and she turned out to be dead easy to train as long as she was active/busy/walked/stimulated.  She was a great wee dog who unfortunately had to be put down at only 2 yr through a spinal tumour.  Collies are busy busy dogs, but very rewarding.  Get advice and enjoy your dog.

CG

Hi copper_girl,
Many Thanks for your message and truly appreciated.
I am really very sorry to hear about your dog having to be put down that must have been real hard.

We do enjoy our BC so much she is a great dog and her temprement is excellent.
We do the right things for her as we chose a BC because of the need to be active as we enjoy taking her for walks and run time aswell as playtime.
We have been with her 24/7 sice we got her, she has always been with us and we very rarely left her on her own which we feel now might have been a mistake?
If one of us goes out and she is left with the other one she is unsettled until we are all together again!!
We also feel that maybe we gave her too much attention and now it is backfiring but she was so scared when we got her that we wanted her to have all the love we could give her and make her feel secure.
Is there anything you can suggest we do??

Thanks

We have an 11wk old border collie and we previously had a collie cross from only 5weeks old to the day she died aged 14yrs.
We haven't experienced any of the problems you have been,having so I wonder if you have perhaps given your collie all the attention whilst it was a puppy and now it is older it cannot cope with being left to amuse itself?
We are training our new puppy in the same manner to which we did with the first,she has lots of toys,a play-pen of her own which she sees as her 'den',where she is fed and goes to sleep.She is now being left for short periods on her own (I am usually in the next room or upstairs) but she is managing to play with her toys alone or goes into her den for a nap quite happily.
Sometimes she doesn't want to eat all her meals,she is currently on 4 a day,but if after 10mins or so she shows she has lost interest, we remove the food and feed her at the next meal,I am sure if a dog is hungry enough it will eat without being told to do so.
We never had to tell our dogs to eat and definately will not allow them to become fussy eaters,as that can cause problems.
We don't allow her to beg for food and at mealtimes,when we sit down to eat,she is trained to go to her den with the door left open whilst we enjoy our meal in peace.
Border collies do need a lot of stimulation so plenty of toys,exercise,training sessions all help,but they also need to understand who is boss and that comes with correct training and lots of patience.Maybe you could attend a behaviour class with her as it seems she needs to re-learn some of her 'lessons' I don't think 'raising your voice or moving toward her' is the correct thing to do as she will see it gets her the attention she is demanding.
I hope you resolve your problems,as a well trained dog is a joy to have and many border collies end up in rescues because of behaviour problems that could perhaps be resolved given time and perseverance.

Guest

Why don't you register with us.

You have lots of problems with your BC, none which can't be overcome, but I feel you will need to take it one problem at a time, then you can keep coming back with updates and we can help you further as you progress.

Sandra

Hi Sandrah,
Many Thanks for your message and truly appreciated!!.
I have registered so that we can try and overcome the problems we have.
Any advice & help is always welcome.
We do adore our BC, she really is first class but its just these niggles that have come a day to day occurence.
We seriously have tried alot of things, she gets praised and given a treat and obviously been told no!
Is there anything you could help us with.

Im sorry but some dogs do want attention 24/7. mine for one will scatch your arm trying to give you her paw even after you have played with her and just walked her, she always wants her chest rubbed so i know exactly where your coming from. the only thing you can do is after her walk and play time the time when you need your space when she comes up ignore her and if she jumps up on her two paws to get to you push her down and say no.

Hi Lovelylady
Many Thanks for your message and it really is appreciated!!
Does you dog require 24/7 and if so apart from what you mentioned is there anything else you might do that helps??
When she does try to get attention like you said we do sh he down & she will stay there for about 5 minutes and then try again, this isn't always the case as at times she will curl up & sleep which gives us some peace but as soon as we might laugh or get up and walk out of the room she is there! she reacts to everything even when she is so tired after her run she won't give in!
any suggestions

Hi Porkie
Many Thanks for your message.
We have & continue to do so give her all the love & attention she needs it hasn't stopped just because she is a little older now, we adore & love her a much now as we did then.

We also haven't allowed her to become a fussy eater and like you if she doesn't eat her meal we take it away and give it to her again later.
Again like you she is not in the same room as us when we eat at mealtime which then she is excellent she will stay in the other room and see can still see us in view.

We always give her lots of exercise with runs walks and playtime

angeldust

I feel really sorry for your little girl.  I bet when she was a puppy she was the 'bees knees' and got loads of attention.  Without wishing to be rude you don't sound as if you have very much patience to try!

Like everyone else has said Border Collies need an awful lot of exercise and mental stimulation.  I was just about to say that my nine collies are all fast asleep at the moment but then my husband stood up to go and put the kettle on and they have all jumped up, are wide awake and anticipating another walk. 

Don't raise your voice and move towards her to get her to do as she's told.  Get some help to train her to respond because she wants to not because she has to.  Collies are very willing to please but they will only want to please you if it pleases them to do so!  I doubt if she is stubborn, more likely she doesn't understand.  If you don't want her to follow you when you tell her to stay then use a stair gate or shut the door.  If you are raising your voice to her then her 'in your face' behaviour will be her attempts to appease you or 'turn off' your anger.  Unless you are able to spend a lot of time on her training, playing with her and lots of off lead exercise then you will be unlikely to succeed in getting her to settle occasionally.

Sally

Hi Angeldust,

You mention a lot of little problems that, put together, can easily get on top of you, so I know how you must be feeling. But if you treat each problem separately, you should be able to come to a happy relationship with your collie. :)

Firstly, she's a Border Collie. Is she show-bred or working-bred? Both strains are demanding - the working-bred more so. They are extremely intelligent, and need as much 'brain-exercise' as physical exercise. And when you watch 'One Man and his Dog' you will know how much physical exercise a collie is happy with.

Collies are herding dogs. Thousands of generations of breeding has gone into making them need to keep their 'flock' together - and you are the only flock she has. So naturally she can't be content if you're not all together.

If you could break each problem down individually, you may well be able to find solutions. Hope this helps.
:)

Another question (I was too late to edit my post to include this) - when she is out in the garden, either alose or with you, what does she play with? This may sound very strange, but I have fallen into the trap of thinking that my dogs will be happy alone with a toy. But of course when I think about it, that doy does nothing without my input! The huge majority of dogs will only play with something that has initiated the game - a tugger-toy is no fun without someone/thing to tug it with! Toys need interaction - not solitude.

As regards her dinner - is it possible (I don't know, I'm only going by what you have said) that she has got into a routine where she feels that your presence and praise are essential components? Sometimes at rescue kennels they have dogs come in who refuse to eat without being given the usual word of command. :( They simply refuse to eat if the food is simply put down and they're not 'Clever boy, lovely dinner' or whatever.

I would be very interested to know your exact feedtime routine. I may well be entirely wrong about this, so I would appreciate your input.
:)

Hi Jeangenie,
Thank You for your message.
When she plays in the garden she has a small football that she likes to push along all around the garden, or she pushes it and then picks it up carrys it for a bit puts it down and then runs around it and the whole garden then picks it up again and does the same thing.
She will do this for ages the same with her frisbe or her tennis ball she does find things to amuse her especially in the summer time!! the door is always open to come and see us but she doesn't bother she is quite happy outside

Anyway as far as feeding time I call & say dinnertime I put her dinner in her bowl she sits at her place where she eats and I say good girl eat your dinner
Is there something wrong with that???
Any adive most welcome.

angeldust

Out of curiosity, what happens if you don't say "Good girl, eat your dinner?" Will she eat it? Or has she made it part of an obsessive routine?

Hi,
She has made it her routine!!
We have tried several things like just calling her putting it down for her and waiting for her to eat but she just sits or lays down.
We have put her dinner down without her knowing (or at times she has heard her bowl) and she will go into the kitchen without us being in there and just eat it and that worked for a short while!!!
She really does constantly attention seek from eating peeing pooing you name it she asks for it!!!

angeldust

JG think you have hit the nail on the head when you used the word obsessive, BC are obsessive well most are, and the nearer to the working strains they are the worse they are and it is difficult to get them to settle into a home as a pet. Think it may help this owner and the family if they join a local BC club if they can find one or failing that an agility club or even if they life in the right sort of area a search and rescue training club. Not only will this give the dog something to think about but it should help the family having contact with other BC owners.

I can see you care for your little girl alot and i know You cannot devote all of your time to your dog its just something some dogs do.
Its easy to think a walk more or a little play time more will do the trick. well with mine  you would be all day playing and shed still want more so i know you cant baby your dog for forever . we all need a 5min break.
mines so bad i cant walk anywhere without her being right under your feet , yes its lovely but not so good if you stand on her paw or trip over her
ive trained the go away command now. meaning get out the way she will go play with her toys or watch tv :o People who look after her when i go away was amazed at her tv watching.
if i tell her to go away its not nasty it's alot safer then standing on her,

you need to do things like if she gets fussy with food throw her a kong with cheese and meat in . that should make her work for her food and she will stop being bored so much as her brain will be working out how she can get to her food.* i sound like a barking babe now :D *  unfortunaly mine's not a food lover so it dosent work for me.
toys only let her have half of them one week and the other half of them the next. she wont get so bored with them then. also walks try a bit of training while your out and about walking. and you can see if she wants to go out often they have a good run in the garden.And you can teach tricks in the home like down stay ect.. with a small reward. it just gets there brains going