Will apologise in advance before i start, there maybe lots of spelling mistakes as im chomping on a big slice of xmas cake (health kick lasted long !)

Am just back from dog training (hence the need for cake) where i was advised to have my dog neutered???

He is a 6 month old boxer.

I've read a lot of the responses on here regarding this subject and would rather leave him intact.  I did raise this subject with my vet whom basically said " unless he is naughty and at everything then leave him as nature intended". 

The trainer did admit for his age and breed ! he was good.  The gentle leader I bought a while ago has really helped with the heel work and the rest of his training is coming along nicely. ( i was told tonite i need to be firmer with my voice, when she bellowed not only did he take note but she frightened me, she is under 5 foot and I'm 5 foot 8, )

The trainer is of the opinion that he needs to be neutered before adolescence (spelling??). This is not something I was planning on doing but would welcome your thoughts on the matter.

thanks in advance.

back to the cake but before someone else eats it.

lol, dont worry about the cake Im on the beer and pizza now!
Im a VN, and the protocol at my surgery is not to castrate until the dog is 12 months or at least cocking his leg. Trouble is, many people think that castration is the answer to a loony dog, but often it is the breed and the training/upbringing that is the culprit.
Id keep up wiith the training for now, and let him mature. as it stands at this point in time id let him mature 1st, and see how you go. Unless he becomes dominant aggressive or humps everything in sight, then let him grow up 1st. If you dont intend to breed, then think about getting him "done" nearer the 2 year old mark, when he will be pretty much fully mature.
Also, if you feel there may be a behavioural reason to have him castrated earlier, try a jab 1st, which will mimic the effects of castration so you can be sure the op will do the job.

thanks staffmad for your reply.

cake all gone now, but as you mentionned beer might see whats in the fridge, other half not here to tut tut at me.

I wont be breeding from him at all, he is a much loved spolied pet (my baby)

Health wise in the long term is it adviseable to neuter?

I know he will be boisterours for many years ( one of the reasons i chose a boxer, plus their rugged good looks, or as one of my friends said beautiful in an ugly way, :) )

at the moment he is sprawled out in the 3rd bedroom whilst i type, he is silently farting.  He likes the liver cake not sure I do with the after effects :D

thanks again

of to the fridge.

My advice would be not to castrate at all, the idea it will stop aggression or humping is only partially true and often it makes no different at all. There are side effects to having a dog castrated and so the later it is done, if it must be done at all, the better. You will be told that it will stop the dog getting cancer of the testis, this is true you can't get cancer in an organ you don't have, but it does increase the chances of cancer of the prostrate. so my advice is to leave your dog as nature made him unless you decide for some reason to bring an intact bitch into the home or he becomes difficult to keep in the house and escapes from your property looking for bitches. I have 3 intact males living together and have no problem with them living together or with them lusting after bitches and trying to escape.

I agree totally with Jackie. I get rather tired hearing of vets/trainers etc who seem to think neutering should be routine.

Agree there! we dont automatically cut their knackers off! lol! if its a behavioural thing we suggest a good trainer and or the jab 1st. cos 9 times out of 10 its the owner or simply the choice of breed that is causing the trouble! The amount of times I get asked if castration will stop a staff being dog aggressive! lol.
We do however try and encourage the speying of non breeding bitches for the obvious reasons!
I wont be geting my male neutered unless there is a very good reason. tho as I undersand it castration does actually PREVENT prostate cancer? Ill ask the vets today at work, youve got me on that one!
But whatever, the incidences are much lower than say pyo's or mammary cancers in the unspeyed bitch.

I too agree with JackieH. My two entire males (now aged 4) have never gone wandering for bitches, got into fights, or humped furniture etc. So if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
:)

Thanks for all the replies. 

I will see how he progresses over the months..years but personally would rather leave him intact.

At six months he has only made a pass at my arm twice, had to get up and move quick

I think the trainer is a staunch believer in snipping straight away.

She also thinks boxers are slow and not easy to train, she said this the first week we went to the class

I  cant comment on other breeds but boxers are not slow, they like to act the clown.  Another reason i went for this breed. 

Have one more week left of the beginners class.  There is another class that follows (intermediate, i think)
I would like to attend to get the best out of him and to keep socialising him.  In two minds if  i want this trainer.  She is excellent with her dogs and all dogs, but gets impatient with people, it can be demoralising when you are targetted. 

I know make sure im at the front of the class as by the time sir has done his umpteenth sit-stay he is bored and lies down, which is usually when the trainer is walking towards us. :D

never did get to the fridge for my drink, will go and mop the kitchen floor instead ( the joy)

thanks again

Think I'd be looking for another class!

your right anwen, not too keen to rush back to the same trainer.

will ponder over it and see how things are at next weeks class.

did mop the kitchen floor with sir sitting and watching, hes very helpful.

found the lager in the fridge and drank it quickly. oops

x

I think you need a trainer who understands Boxers, or at least is not influenced by a worn out stereotype.

They are very quick to learn, but, being intelligent, do get rather bored by repetition.

It is the same with my breed (elkhound) they get fed up with formal training, I find clicker training works best because you can, if you like, teach a game instead of a sit, and ever thing your dog learns, taught by you, increases his attention on you and his enjoyment of being trained.

All dogs go through mount behaviour when they are in the equivalent of the teenage years and I let mine hump inanimate objects or other dogs but not people, usually if you just move away and distract the dog they soon pass this people bonking stage. The worse bonker in my home is the bitch.

Try another trainer, it is a trainer's job to deal with the dogs that are brought to them not to try and get you to interfere with your dog's body because they are unable to deal with any problem the dog may present with. The whole myth that to remove the dogs bit makes the slightest difference to their trainability or behaviour has led to many disappointed owners when instead of the effects they hoped for they get an additional string of problems they could have done without. Yes, sometimes it helps, but dogs will come through these irritating things soon enough and there is nothing so beautiful as a fit healthy male Boxer, or any other breed if it comes to that, we buy males because that is what we like there is no point in changing them on the whim of a inadequate trainer.

mmm, yes, I had to castrate me old SBT x, when I got my 1st bitch, as I was never breeding from him, and I didnt want an "accidents"! And even though it needed to be done, I regret it in a way, He never had the same muscle tone and I duno, certain something, once he was done. real shame really.
thats why we try and let a dog mature before an owner castrates, as some just do not want an entire dog, and beleive they are preventing unwanted pups. errmmm, you prevent unwanted pups by being responsible!  ahh well!

Hi there,

Just to add a positive note to castration! :)

Not all dogs have problems after being done. Murph was done at 8 months and at a year old is a very fine looking dog with good muscle tone. No, he never humped anything either but after seeking lots of advice from various forums, all of which was good on both sides of the argument, we decided to go ahead.
Murph is a great dog in every way we could want him to be.....although I realise that he may be one of the 'lucky' few in others eyes.

TTFN

Ruth

How old is he now Ruth?

He's a year old now Jackie....celebrated his 1st birthday by passing his Bronze KCGC!! :D

TTFN

Ruth

Well lets be fair, he has not reached full maturity at a year, castrated or intact and 4 months is too early to say that it has had no effect. Really hope he is fine and sales through life without any associated problems but think it is a bit early to tell others that in your case it has had no effect.

Hi guys,
Just had to add a couple of things to the discussion. Not all vets suggest castration in young dogs for no good reason.  My own vet, who is brilliant  was very happy when I told him that I would not be getting Kester done now, or maybe not ever.  He says that people are coming in  asking for castration on pups as young as 5 months old! ( He doesn't castrate before 12 months at least, unless there is a real problem) Kester is 9 months now (where did that time go?) and a normal, healthy working lab puppy, I feel that there's no need to castrate him.  If when he is at least a year and a half old, I think that there is a good enough reason for it, then I'll discuss it with my vet, but for now, I'm more than happy to leave his 'bits' alone.
As for your trainer 'singling' you out in front of the class, that's absolutely appalling (IMHO). Its hard enough for new owners to take everything in at a class, without 'living' in fear of being made to look silly.  I would change your training class if I were you.  Just because the trainer has very well behaved dogs herself, doesn't necessarily mean that she can clearly tell a group of people how to train their own dogs. I have been training for a number of years now, and I feel that a good trainer should be able to train any breed of dog that is in their class. Sure, some breeds are easier than others, but you are there to train your dog and have FUN doing it.
Anyway, sorry to go prattling on so long (again).
Let us know how you get on.
Ali:)

I used to think that this board was one of the best on the net!:(
Jackie, Your comment surprises and disappoints me. NO, it is not too early to be telling people that castration has not affecting him because I see no reason why it should. I am so tired of hearing all the negative sides of castration, barf, raw feeding whatever and YES I know it's a discussion forum but all too often I've seen people slated for doing what they believe is right for their animals.
I won't be using this forum again....there are others where your point of view is accepted graciously and withough feeling the need to have a go at the person for having that viewpoint. I hope you all enjoy you slanging matches...'cos I DON'T!

Ruth

Ruth

I have not always seen eye-to-eye with Jackie on neutering :) However, it is only 4 months since my bitch was neutered and although she doesn't appear to have changed at all in coat or temperament, I would think that it is too early for me to say that confidently. I am also aware that there MAY be longer term affects (although my belief is that these are outweighed by the benefits).

My dog has been neutered for 4 years and has (so far) shown no adverse affects.

Daisy

Hi Ruth, Sorry my comments surprises and disappoints you, it was not my intention to start a slanging match or upset you, I was just telling it the way it is. As it is the lack of hormones that cause the side effects some can take years to take effect and by then most people will not make the connection. I'm not speaking off the top of my head or because I have a bee in my bonnet, I have experience of an unusually badly effected male and because of that a good number of years research into the effects of the loss of hormones in all mammals and dogs in particular, my thoughts on this matter are not just my opinions but thoughts and conclusions of people far more qualified that I.

Would hate to be the cause of someone leaving the forum, thought I was as gentle as I could be and still state my thoughts that 4 months was not long enough to come to the conclusions you had, no slanging was intended nor do I believe given.

This is one vet's opinion and also answers the questions above regarding prostate problems

Since your dog will be on lead or inside a secure fence at all times,

<b>Somehow I think not; this may be the "norm" in the US but certainly is not in the UK<b>

The statement that your dog will not automatically gain weight is rubbish. Removing sexual hormones will change his metabolism  -

<b>yes it does affect metabolism dogs only automatically gain weight if the owner does not adjust intake.<b>

and make your dog more sluggish, resulting almost inevitably in weight gain.

<b>Having owned two castrated dogs I can attest to the fact that they were very far from sluggish! <b> :D

Also, muscle tone will decline after castration, - <b>again this has not been my experience at all<b>

Unfortunately it is generalised sweeping statements like these that prevent people taking the rest of the piece seriously. :(

Interesting link thank you, the lady is not one I have spoken to as I went blindly in asking questions when my boy was not doing well health wise, expecting none of the vets to accept that his problems could be due to his castration but to my surprise most agreed that his problems may well be caused by the reduction in hormones. However none would let me quote their name in the paper I was preparing. This lady sees open in her opinion and I may well try to contact her.

well!! in 15 plus years of working in the veterinary field that is the 1st time I have ever heard of castration causing protate cancer!!!! Ill print it out and let the vets have a gander at it! dont smell right to me!!
and as for dogs automatically getting fat! total twallop! yes they can get fat if exercise and food intake isnt regulated, but it is not "automatic"!!!
the same is said about speyed bitches, I have had 4 bitches over the recent years, all speyed, and ALL have been slim, with the possible exeption of our dogue cross, who we do have to watch, but that is because she was an overweight puppy when we got her, and near the 12 weeks mark, and that will make life harder for the dog later on, to maintain a good bodyweight ratio. it gets a bit complicated, but basically there is a cut of point in the laying down of fat cells. past that point ( the age I forget!) no more cells are "made" the ones produced previously expand, so a pup kept fairly light will not be so inclinded towards obesity as an adult. the same applies to humans.

There was quite a large study done sure your vet will be aware of it, well if they are not they jolly well should be. It has been mentioned on here before by a number of people including me. Think the report is about 5 or 6 years old but I may be wrong there but I can go and look it up if you are really interested but it is somewhere in the loft (I think) so only if you are really interested.

let me show this to them 1st, save you rooting about the loft!

I will, because I am sure they will know as it was well reported at the time, to be truthful I cleared up all the material I had collected over the years in a fit of sorrow after the dog in question died but I am sure it did all go into the loft. Trouble is I always blamed myself for the poor quality of life he had, that when he died I was not thinking that straight.

Hello Jackie, have a look at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=12431819

Yet a quick Google search still revealed plenty of internet sites assuring people that castration prevents prostatic cancer in dogs!

I know Jas, and you will get plenty of people telling you that it will not effect the dog at all, and I know different. Have spent 12 years researching the opinion of vets and scientists and know what conclusion I came too, the fact that I also owned a very badly effected dog just added to my believes on castration. Have read most the papers written on the subject and I think you will find that those produced in the last 10 years tell a different story to the original thoughts people had. Why they believed it made no difference is beyond me one only has to look at castrated humans to see it does.

Yes I find it strange that people think it will have no effect.  You only have to look at Caponised poultry, Lambs, bullocks, Geldings (when done young) etc.

ive shown the printout to a few of the vets in today, and the response was something of a splutter, lol! I didnt get to see everyones reaction and opion though, so I will let them all digest it over the weekend! It has been one of those manic days today!
I will be interested in what comes up once its all been read!

Well must say I am suprised, still if they are too busy to read the information that comes out from time to time I supose it is understandable. Know my vets were aware of the study work done, it didn't stop them offering to castrate my dog when they scored him but they did mention that there could be side effects when I asked including the link to prostrate, which they told me is not common but most cases are castrated.