Hello! I see that a lot of you are successfully using crates to help housetrain your puppies but on reading the Gwen Bailey 'Perfect Puppy' book it seems she much prefers playpens for a new pup. This appeals to me because the pup has room to play about, but one of the websites selling such playpens recommends that you shouldn't leave pups in them unsupervised, and a breeder I know said puppies would escape from a playpen in no time (how?) so use a crate... But some of you seem to be successfully using playpens overnight so now I'm really confused! Is it that playpens are OK for smaller, less boisterous breeds or are they not really sturdy enough to ever leave any pup safely unsupervised (In which case what are they for?) Is it a question of some types of playpen being stronger? I am considering containing my pup safely overnight and for any short periods during the day when I might have to attend to something else and I'd really like her to have space to play but not to be in danger of slipping out into things she shouldn't or I'd never forgive myself. So from all your experience: playpen or crate? Thanks in advance...

We use the play-pen my husband made for our litter of puppies for the dog puppy we've kept. It has two sections, a "bed-room" and a toileting area. I find it invaluable at night, when he can't be supervised and when he gets too boisterous with his mum. He's three months now, I don't know how long it will be before he can jump out....his mum can jump in and out with ease. Howeve, being as husband is very handy, he could construct higher sides if necessary. I feel happy with it, it's a safe space and he's got room to play and go to the loo if needs must.
Cathy.

The main difference between a playpen & a crate is that a crate has a roof & a floor! Any puppy who is a bit adventurous can soon learn to climb out of a playpen and it's amazing how playpens can "walk" from one end of a room to the other! A playpen is fine for a very young puppy, but I'd rather leave an older puppy in a largish cage & know that they are safe.
JMO

Hi Guest
I had not planned on using a crate when I first had my pup (a labrador), however, having spent a couple of sleepless nights trying to ensure he didn't get himself into trouble (I have an open plan house so was unable to shut him one particular room)  I decided to try one.  I ended up getting a sturdy playpen with a top - I knew he would climb out otherwise and like you was happier that there was more room in it for him. I put his bed in (a cardboard box with the side cut out) his water, some toys and some newspaper in case nature called! and covered it with a blanket.   I never intended to use it as an aid to toilet training - just a place where I would know he was safe during the night or if I had to go out.  Having said that he never soiled in it and after about ten days I came down to dry newspaper and it was dry from then on- but that may be down to luck and also his breeder who had already started training him and i just carried on with it.  He still uses it now at eight months (and he's pretty big for eight months).  The door is left open and all he has is his duvet in it now - but it is still his little den.  Hope that helps.
Best wishes, Jenny

Gollie's brother Moby was getting out of the playpen at 4 weeks, he cd. just climb to the top and he used to dive from the top, not really a good idea for such a young puppy, so yes you do have to be there all of the time. 

The only time I used a play pen was for their playtime and when the new owners to be came around to the house so that they cd. do their necessary on the paper in the play pen and then come out to cause riot with their new families to be.

I use play pens as well as crates and i have two very nice pens which my pups can not get out of and one has a floor in it which you can take out to clean i some times put an adult into it and it looks nice as well it wasn't cheap but well worth the money it is all ways in use. i dont know if i can put the name on board????

The reason Gwen prefers play pens is that crates are open to abuse (she has no actuall objections to their correct use as far as I know)so doesn't like to promote them in her books. She does actually VERY occasionally use a crate for her own puppy...

Our pen has 2 floors in it, one for each section, which gives added stability. It's been much admired by everyone who's seen it, and people have suggested my husband should go into production! :) :) He won't however, it's just a one-off made initially for the litter and now for our Lukie.
Cathy.

Used to use a play pen with a box for sleeping but found the pup would move it across the floor and by the 3rd night had learned to climb out, now I use a large cage big enough for 2 adults then once the pup has finished it is always there should it be needed later for cage rest or if taken on holiday. 

We tried a crate,because a friend loaned us one,but our border collie puppy cried and messed in it for the 1st three nights,so we bought her a play-pen,no bottom or top to it,but we lined the floor area with a 'ground-sheet' from our camping days ;)
From the very first night in it,she was clean and dry! now she goes in there to 'escape' for her naps and to sleep overnight,it has definately become her 'den'.

We removed the ground sheet after the first few nights and now she just has her vet bed and a cuddly toy,plus a small water bowl.

We can leave one side open,as we did not fit the clips to it,but overnight we use some pegs to hold it shut,although she does not even attempt to come out before we go downstairs each morning.

I think I have been exceptionally lucky with our puppy over toilet training her so soon,but she just runs to the back door to be let out if she needs to go.

So my preference is for the play pen,it gives more room, is easy to clean out and if your dog is happy in there then they shouldn't have any need to 'escape'.I think a border collie is certainly active and boisterous enough to escape if she wanted to,but she is certainly quite settled with her pen :)

Have just registered in order to thank you all for your replies - plenty of food for thought!
It looks like to be on the safe side we are really looking for something that's a cross between the two i.e. a very large cage or a playpen with a floor and roof! (Unless we are lucky enough to have a pup like porkie's border collie :-))
Thanks all for your time... :-D