HI,

Our pup has recently developed a behavioural trait that is becoming more persistant. He doesn't challenge me too often, but my wife seems to have problems with ensuring he takes discipline seriously. He will often bark/growl at her when told not to do something. I was wondering if this was perhaps to do with me play fighting with him on occasion, and him thinking that he can do the same thing with my wife.
Any suggestions and alternatives for discipline as opposed to sending him to his bed will be gratefully received.

Yet another youngster trying his luck to be boss. Stop play fighting your aren't litter mates you are the boss.  Play games yes but just with toys and with you deciding when you stop. Make him give up toys.
If he growls you immediately answer with a deep growl type no. The minute he stops praise.

Get you wife to feed him making him sit and wait for the food, this will then put her above him. But she must develop the deep growl tone when he is trying to dominate. If necessary the second he growls get him by the scruff and a quick shake with no often works wonders and it shouldn't take long to stop. Sending him to his bed doesn't get thro' to him that he cannot dominate.

I personaly wouldn't suggest anyone to << get him by the scruff of the neck and a quick shake >>
Sounds very severe to me, and more likely to make the dog scared and nervous.

JMHO

liberty

How do you tell him not to do something, and what is he up to for example when you tell him to stop? It's just that sometimes humans can be very powerful to pups and they start to become defensive.

Play fighting can be confusing to pups and depending on how rough it gets, it can teach the pup that it is OK to be "rough" because that is how humans interact. So that could be a part of it.

When you say he challenges you, this really doesn't sound much like a Lab pup. Do you mind relating exactly what happens, before, during and after the "challenge", both dog and human? Thanks :)

John will hopefully be along later, he is our resident Lab man :

Have to say i disagree this is yet another pup trying to be boss - this has not been established and i doubt frankly if this is the case ;-)

Lindsay

We use the words "Stop it!" or "No!" - generally when he tries to get onto the couch/starts to mouth/bite or begging for food thats not for him. With me he listens, with my wife he sometimes growls and barks a bit; he also tends to run around if he is going to be tapped on the bum.

It sounds to me as if he is learning from your example.  You get on his case and he'll try the same with your wife.  You need to stop being negative.  Stop telling him what not to do and instead teach him what you want him to do.  Please don't tap him on the bum or anywhere else for that matter.   He will learn nothing useful from that other than to run away!  For anything he does that you don't want him to do there is an alternative incompatible behaviour that you can teach him.  So if you don't want him on the settee train him to settle on the floor or his bed.
Sally

Just seen this last post. I figure that if I was going to be tapped on the bum I'd run around too! I would call that the smart thing to do! Try to think your way out of trouble rather then force. When puppies are young I leave things on the easy chairs and sofa not so much to stop the pup getting up as to make it uncomfortable. I have crept in the room and rocked the chair when they have been asleep, again, not to throw them off but to unsettle them. They very soon decide those things are not safe to sleep on and because they realised that all on their own it creates a lasting impression.

I'm not saying that I would never ever smack a dog but it is a last resort thing, not a first port of call. One of the problems attached to smacking is that it teaches the dog that hands hurt so guard against hands getting too close.

Regards, John

Hi Mooby.
Some time ago I wrote about the difficulties of accurately diagnosing behavioural problems without being able to see the dog. We have no knowledge of the owners experience and so often with the less experienced person, what can look to be a real problem is often a normal facet of growing up.

You ask if it could be a product of you play fighting with him. I'll ask the question, is there any similarities in his behaviour? Demeanour? Expression?  between when he is play fighting with you and his behaviour with your wife? Any info, however obscure you can give us could help us pick up on something.

Although young, he could be getting into the adolescent stage although personally I would doubt it yet.

One thing I will say is that all early training should be as much involved with preventing what we don't want as teaching what we do want. A calm quiet approach to playing with a puppy helps instil a quiet calm behaviour from the puppy. Play fighting in the litter equips a puppy for his life in the wild, catching food and defending the pack. Play fighting with humans teaches the dog that it is permissible to grab at humans. It encourages the kind of interaction. The Labrador was bred to work for man. Everything about it was designed to be quiet, calm and gentle. On the shooting field, which is it's home, it should be the kindest of dogs, never ever using it's mouth to inflict pain or damage.

My feeling, based on what you have said is that he enjoys the play fighting and is just trying to instigate another round of playing this exciting game. My advice would be to drop this game and substitute the natural game for a retriever, retrieving. I know I always recommend gundog type training and I know shooting is no to everyone's taste but it matters not to the dog whether it is retrieving Pheasants, training dummies or a ball.

Best wishes, John   

To answer your question John - yes I guess his expressions are similar to when play fighting is going on - so I suppose that explains it. Play fighting is therefore over as of now - has a million toys that should suffice as an alternative.

May I ask another question - as I've heard you're the "Lab man" ;)

What approximate weight should he be at just under 5 months - we weighed him today and he comes in at 13Kg. He is currently fed on Burns Mini Bites - around 110g three times daily. Also, in your opinion, when should we decrease his feeding frequency to 2X/day ?

Thanks to all for their input and help.

Good luck Mooby :)

If you can get hold of a copy of "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey (or The Ultimate Puppy by Teresa Shipp) you will also get some excellent tips and pointers.

Have fun,

best wishes

Lindsay

I'm always reluctant to talk weights in both Labradors and food. It depends so much on the line and on the nature of the food. A look in the show ring at a 6 month puppy will show you a nearly full grown dog and yet none of my puppies have ever got near full size before 2 years old!

The accurate way of determining the correct size for a puppy is the "Finger Test" Feel the ribs. With a correctly built puppy you should be able to feel the ribs with the edges softened by the layer of flesh. If the ribs feel hard, sharp edged then the puppy is too thin and if it is difficult to find the ribs, too fat.

The amount required changes during the growth of a puppy. As a very young puppy growing fast you need to continually increase the amount. As the growth starts to slow then the need to increase diminishes until as growth finally stops it might even be necessary to slightly reduce the food intake to maintain the correct body cover. Most well known brands of food are good but some may not suit some dogs. If you have a food which you like, (nice firm stools and not too many of them) then stick with it. I myself would now be thinking about dropping the puppy food and moving to an adult type. A gradual change over aiming at being on adult food by around 6 months. There are all sorts of ideas on feeding, these are just the way I like to do it.

Best Wishes, John

Our 3 month lab appears aggressive when we (either of myself or my wife) try to stop him doing things he shouldn't - and we don't hit him or even play fight with him. Distraction is usually successful the rest of the time but he seems to have  funny 10 minutes, usually just before he sleeps, when he tries to bite everything, including us, and won't respond to 'no' however deep and manly we try to make it! Any advice (oh fount of all knowledge) John (or anyone else)?

It's possible that, if this happens just before he sleeps, he is overtired and tetchy. Toddlers are just the same if they're not put down for a nap before they reach this stage. Try putting him quietly in his bed in another room and let him rest as soon as you see him getting worked up.
:)

I did wonder if he was just tired but if you leave him quietly at this point he will just chew everything in sight and not sleep; he's got loads of toys but when he's in this mood all he wants to chew is the furniture...

The short answer is to leave him in a safe place where he can't get to the furniture ...
:)

Hi chrisclipson Have you tried using a kong for your lab, I find this comes in very useful when my lab puppy NEEDS something to keep her occupied to chew on, If you pack it with cheese and kibble or something like that it will keep them occupied for some time.

Hilary

My view is that this is very normal behaviour - my 3rd Belgian has done it, my sister's JRT used to do it, and lots of other pups i have met :) It seems to be a way of letting off steam, cheeky "toddler" behaviour almost <g>.

The best way is to be very calm, distract or put out as has been suggested, and a long line may need to be used to get the pup out or it will still be overexcited and grabbing and barking etc. I put out as a last resort and found wiggling a toy worked well and the dog leapt on that rather than on me LOL :D

Lindsay