I read the recent posting about pulling, and all of the tips given were very useful. Our puppy, which is a labxcollie is normally good when walking on our own but when we go out as a family, it all goes pear shaped. She doesnt mind if the children walk behind and is not worried about how far behind they are, but as soon as they (or any of us) step even one pace in front she starts frantically barking and trying to pull to be in front of them, and will stop the pulling the minute she gets in front of them. I didnt know if this was the collie part of her trying to herd us, as a novice any thoughts or tips would be appreciated. Thanks.

arent herding dogs normally at  the rear of the pack ?????    sounds more like she wants to be in the lead , so id guess  its more  a dominance thing than a herding one--------but its a guess.

Hi if she was herding then she would be concerned about people lagging behind as well as getting in front and she would circle trying to round them up and keep them together i think its as Dizzy said she wants to be the lead dog :) Gillian

So if she wants to be the lead dog, then how do we stop this, because all our training is going out of the window as soon as more than one person takes her out. It doesnt matter how tasty the treat is, as soon as she is not in front, she starts pulling frantically, whining, and barking.

id guess its more than just a  walking issue--------if she see's herself as the leader, hence getting upset if anyone gets infront--its her whole life style that needs to change so she no longer see's herself as number one.

We have been trying to do this at home-us eating first, going through doorways and not on the furniture etc and it only seems to be the walking where we have this problem. Recently, the furniture was an issue, but this is resolving itself, so not quite sure on where we are going wrong.

is she allowed up stairs at all-on the beds etc ?????   do you let her lie where she likes in the house-or do you sometimes remove her from the room, ?????     what was the problem with the furniture ??

Dizzy,

I think branding a puppy with "dominance issues" is not appropriate.  Some puppies are more outgoing, strong willed and vocal than others.  Growling when someone tries to remove them from the sofa is not necessarily indictive of a dominance problem in a puppy.  It's indicative of a behaviour that needs to be corrected, eg, staying on the floor and not the sofa. 

Stacey

so stacey, you dont believe that such a thing as a dominant puppy exists then ??????  if so then i disagree , ---- there are tests done on pups in certain breeds for specific jobs  to find out the dominant-submissive etc pups in a litter, the army, police force etc look for a dominant bold puppy,  ive seen and lived with dominant pups.,    so we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Maybe the police and services are looking for a 'confident' rather than dominant puppy???

maybe !!!!  but the question is--------  do you get dominant pups-------as im picking up from the poster  that theres no such thing,

Oh there certainly are truly dominant pups - but they are very few and far between. Maybe one in a hundred?

Digger,

Exactly - confidence is a whole lot different than dominant!

Stacey

Did you train her basic obedience? She pull's on the lead pull back. Tell her no.

When walking with one person she is brill, and with titbits doesnt pull at all. She knows no, but seems to be completely distracted with the need to go in front. As for the furniture, she is not allowed on it-did have a problem where she was growling at me for being on the furniture but that has resolved itself. She is also not allowed upstairs at all.

I would forget thinking that her behaviour is an expression of dominance or herding or whatever.  Most likely she is excited and wants to get wherever you are going as quickly as she can.   She just has not learned to walk on a lead under all circumstances.  Dogs need to be taught all the basic training routines in all different types of circumstances, inside and outside, with and without distractions, and so on.  You hit the nail on the head when you said she, "seems to be completely distracted."  

My advice would be to persevere in teaching her to walk properly on a lead, that's all she needs.

Stacey

stacey--i think the post above re growling when her owners where trying to get on the furniture proves this dog has dominance issues.
so id be keeping that in mind-not forgetting it.

Dizzy,

Sorry, but growling when someone wants a puppy or dog to get off the sofa is absolutely not proof of dominance. It's not proof of anything, other than a typical dog that prefers the sofa to the floor.

I have known lots of dogs that continue to growl as adults when asked to get off furniture or move over or whatever.   They are not dominant dogs - they growl and grumble and then they get off the sofa.  A dog that wants to move out on a walk is a typical dog - otherwise we would not have to go through all the trouble of teaching dogs to heel, they would stay by our sides or lag behind naturally. A dog that learns to heel with one person in one situation  - and then "forgets" when there is someone else on the lead or the situation itself is different - this again is typical behavior, not dominant behaviour.

Any dog that is poorly trained may appear to be dominant, even though they are nothing of the sort.  Even breeds which many people say are "dominant" are not really, Akitas, for example.   Akitas are very confident dogs with low sensitivity thresholds (you can't rattle them easily) and they need a slightly different training approach than a dog which is highly sensitive.  True dominance in dogs which leads to behaviour problems with people is very uncommon and certainly could only be assessed by a professional behaviourist who observes the dog.  

The best that the original poster can do is to find a dog trainer schooled in dog behaviour and work with them to find what works best for this puppy and the puppy's family.  

Stacey

as i said--we'll have to agree to differ----theres really nothing more to say-i think were just going over old ground "several times"!!!

I agree with Stacy, she is just excitable and wants to be "in front"; it is like a competition on who can get there fastest.

As for the furniture; this is not dominance it is resource guarding!  Therefore I would immediately work on preventing issues with toys, food, bones etc rather than firefight once the problem rears its head!

We had this problem with our now 8 month GSD but with a lot of percverence (spelling) it got better.
I took her out with each of my daugters seperatly (i have 3). So basically me and one of my girls, daughter would go in front on or two steps if she started going made i would pull her back and tell her to heel, but as soon as she done it i would praise her, and keep saying good girl by the end of about two weeks the could go about 10 steps in front, but i still say good girl each time she walks by my side.
Off the lead is completely different and i have to tell the kids to walk and not run, otherwise she just runs after them.
The other thing you could try is a little squeaky ball in your pocket, every time she moves to get infront whilst you kids are with you give it a squeak then when she walks by your side treat her and say good girl.
Hope this all makes sense.

Cordelia

Thanks everybody for your advice. We will try this Cordelia,  as it is sort of breaking the problem down and gradually reintroducing all of the elements that seem to distract her. As for the dominance issue-I do feel there is a slight problem which is noticeable with the furniture, but this is infrequent now so hopefully we are getting there.

good luck with it all-------- i wondered if a halti might help---as if she trys to go into the lead it will turn her around to face you all /????   not what shed be aiming for   :D   anyhow good luck ,