i have been with the bitch up at the kennels all day, she was due today.

she started having pups about 13.45, the first one had clept pallet!
second one at 2.30 perfectly normal :)
3rd  clept pallet
4th clept pallet - died 5 mins after birth
5th clept pallet

she has about 3 more in her, we are praying they will be fine! :(

the c.p pups are being put to sleep in the morning. :(

she has had a litter before - all normal.

it was such a horrible day, each time i took the sacs off i knew they were going to be deformed.

this was my first litter i have delivered.

what causes clept pallet?
anyone had experiences with it?

Hi, what a rotten thing to happen. According to 'The Book of the Bitch', cleft palate is one of the congenital deformities that occurs between the 3rd and 5th week of pregnancy, and is generally thought to be caused by recessive genes. This particular mating should never be repeated, and the bitch should not be mated to one of the stud's close relatives, because both dog and bitch will be carrying the genes. It might be wise not to breed from her again without very good reason.

It can, however, also be caused by the bitch picking up an infection, certain medication, accident, poison, or becoming overheated. Have a careful study of what happened to her 4-6 weeks ago, and note anything untoward.

Hope the surviving pup/s do well.

I'm so sorry to hear this - what a heartbreak for you.

Margot

Sorry..but why put them to sleep?...do we kill babies with this...no...nothing else is wrong with them/

Charley xx

they cant feed, they can hardley breathe xx

Because charley these are animals.  there are plenty of very nice healthy pups put to sleep every day, so why rear ones that are not as healthy as possible?  would you want to bu6y one,  could you face trying to rear it, only to find it dying or doing poorly due to the chest infections it is more prone to.

I have a friend with a daughter born with this defect, and the first six months of her life were a nightmare!!!  She had to have special formula, was on near constant medication, and was gaining very little weight.  She is now a very weezy slight child with an awful speach inpediment, and still very prone to infections.  she had 3 operations in her first year.

Any obviously abnormal pups should be put to sleep as soon as possible, unless the breeder wishes to keep them for themselves.

Also there is a risk that someone could breed on from such a pup.

absolutly, its awful but its the best for the pups :)
i really dont think they would survive an operation, and their quality of life would be poor.

its ging to be terrible taking them tomorrow, but they would of spent a night their mum, who has not stopped licking and loving them since they were born. :)

the normal boy is doing well he is suckling, hes gorgeous, i cant bear the fact we have to take the deformed ones away from her in the morning , she will be heartbroken!

its so strange she was mated to the stud dog 2 years ago, all normal

repeat mating- we get c.p

the stud dog has never produced them before.

i will post again to let you know how the pups still in her, turn out.
fingers crossed for normal pups!

Gemma x

Aww...well thats a great shame...sorry...xx

it certainly is, we are all heartbroken, she is being such a great mum.
pups can survive with cleft pallet if its minor, but these pups have got it really bad, its just kinder for them to be pts.

But...can they not be operated on?? xx

ok..brain less answered this for me xx

what a terrible day :(

Pups born with Cleft palate can't feed well, as milk just comes down their nose. It is kinder to have them euthanased.

They can be operated on, but it's not a straight forward op. But the first hurdle is being able to rear them to an age they can have the op (a few months old) & most will die in the nest anyway.
If you did manage to rear one (doubtful) then the op is often unsuccessful anyway.

You are doing the right thing.

Enjoy the other pup / pups.

i know its the right thing but i still feel absolutly awful, poor little pups :(

whats the possibility the remaining pups will be normal?
or is it impossible to say....

I am so sorry to hear you have cleft palattes. I am lucky not
to have seen any pups with it. But do understand its the kindest
thing to pts. Really sorry and hope all works out for the best.

So sorry, it is an awful thing, but the only sensible thing is to have them pts. As long as she's got one healthy pup to care for she won't be too upset. A neighbour had a litter of 6 SBT pups, all but one had cleft palettes, but she had a litter later by a different dog & they were all fine.

Another point that has not been raised yet is that a cleft palate is quite often linked to other abnormalities that may not be apparent. Even if the puppy is operated on and the cleft palate is repaired, it is not uncommon for another genetic abnormality to become apparent at a later date and result in the puppy dying.

This was not really made clear during the recent challenge in court by the woman who wanted to make it illegal to abort a human foetus due to a cleft palate.
There are often other abnormalities accompanying a cleft palate and even though the repair of this condition is almost routine with human babies, ther may be other hidden problems that become apparent as the child grows.

Not such a 'black and white' issue as some people believe.

snomaes

sorry to hear your bad news and i also think that it is the kindest thing to pts hope the little one is fine,
any news on the unborn ones yet?

I no very minor cleft pallets can heal on their own. My breeder had one born but is was minor and by the time he was 8 weeks you couldn't even tell. :) of course the people who took him on were well aware of it and they still keep in touch many pics. :)

I had one in the litter once from a different male and it wasn't too bad, so we decided to see if he would make it. My vet said it may close a bit but he would still need an operation if he makes it, my friend was willing to take him on and all his needs. So we decided to give him a chance, he was gaining a bit but sadly he did pass on. I do wish to this day that I pts then he wouldn't of suffered, but mom still cared for him and cuddled him you would always see her snuggled up with him I'm sure she knew. :( I still feel bad :(

So very sorry to hear :( but if they are that bad then I too would pts, unless one isn't then I would keep it. I'm bad for that though....Should of put Dozer down was always told too by many people because of his rectal prolapse but he's 2 years old and still going strong, we have some hurdles but he's still happy and healthy. :)

I hope the rest are all fine and healthy, sooo sad :( better then having to suffer all their lives...your doing the right thing :)

hello everyone thanks for the support, more bad news im afraid :(

She carried on and had another 4 pups over today, out of which one was ok

all the c.p pups have now gone to rainbow bridge. they were pts earlier this evening.

9 pups in total - 7 c.p - 2 healthy

im just glad she has 2 little boys to raise, and the other pups are now resting.

once again thanks
Gemma x

Im so sorry to read this . Lots of love Susanxxxx

veery sad to hear about the little pups you did the right thing they will be happy in rainbow bridge
ginastarr

Thinking of you xx

there is little to ease your aching except to reassure yourself that you did the right thing XX

Our thoughts are with you too at this very sad time.

Sweep x

thanks everyone, we have some good news, mum is doing well and her 2 boys are healthy and feeding well.

she wasnt too distressed about her other pups being taken away, although i wish we could tell her what happened shes probably so confused poor girl.

Hi

I was very sorry to hear of the poor little pups with C.P.  Thank goodness you had two normal little boys  but I am sure it is still gutting after you put so much time and care into raising and caring for your dog. 

Hope that your two remaining pups flourish and you did the best u could under the circumstances.  Enjoy the pups you have and hope the mummy is ok

Regards

I am so sorry to read about your loss.  It brought tears to my eyes when I was reading it and the words of encouragement from others was wonderful.  My husband thought I was being really soft and silly when I told him about your pups and I was chocking up then.  I hope you never ever have to go through it again.

Sorry

thanks everyone i really appreciate your support, mum is doing well, she seems happy, so im happy, 2 boys are getting fat already, got all the milk they could ever want. :)

in case anyone is wondering jess is the owner of the bitch, we are close friends, i run the kennels at weekend, everything turned out ok in the end bitch is doing well, and pups.

gemma x

p.s jess have you called mr roberts about viewings on sunday?