Need advice and encouragement on
How you manage to keep this at bay when you are showing ?
:(
Some of the things you hear and some of the ethics and principles of both judges and breeders start to take their toll after a while :(
I know it shouldnt be taken too seriously but sometimes its downright disheartening and I wonder why we do it :(

Hi...

If you have read any of my previous posts then you will know I am brand new to 'showing'. I am not naive though, and had read and researched enough to know that real, or perceived, there are 'tactics'.

I didn't know whether showing was going to be for us, and after 3 shows have heard some umm shall we say mumblings heh. Have had friendly warnings of tactics that can be used and how to counteract.

None of this has been surprising to me, it is repeated in pretty much all enviroments from school to work and social life. Those that try to get an edge one way or another. By far the best thing I have found to date is the willingness of many to be welcoming, friendly and helpful. Some give the impression of a private club, and 1 or 2 make me feel I am going to be asked for my membership card ;).

In life I think we find it easier to remember the bad things, and they tend to overshadow the good. 9 good things happen in a day and 1 bad thing... what do you talk about when you get home... I have heard already comments of x will win because y is judging, and even had someone tell me that I will have to be around a while before my dog will do anything. To be truthful, I don't believe it - even on my small experience I have met some well known in my breed who have really gone out of their way to give advice and help. The time it will take will be the learning curve of preparing and presenting my dog, that I expect.

Do I think sometimes people are swayed other than by the dog, we are all human - and in life that happens. i have a feeling that judges are as often swung away from a dog because they want to be scrupulously fair. That happens in life/work too.

Lel, the really great thing is there are more people like you around than the ones that have obviously upset you in whatever way. Sooner or later the bad guys come a cropper one way or another, try and remember the 9 good things that outweigh the 1 bad thing... we good guys got to stick together... right? If you want to read about 1 of my highlights of the LKA take a look at my post on Lady Dazzle as Sherlock... someone I have never spoken to or met before, but had obviously read a couple of my posts - she used her super powers to find and talk to me at LKA... I was AMAZED!

Good luck in your showing, and more importantly hope you have lots of fun with the good guys.

Regards Dave

Hi Lel

I try and keep the "innocent" thought in my head all the time - that everyone attending, whether exhibiting or judging, has the same aim as me - to see if our dogs are the bext exhibited in their classes, on the day in question ;)

Most of the time I am quite satisfied with the results - when I'm not, it's because we - or the dog - haven't shown at our best.    However, I hear people around muttering about one judge or another, or one brteed or another - and I have SWORN that the minute I start muttering like this and have to DRAG a dog into a ring is the day that I will quit!  

After all, I am ALWAYS taking the best dog in the world home!

I get more dispirited at the small classes in our breed - mind if we were showing a breed like boxers or something like that, I'd probably be moaning about how large the classes were!

Regards

Margot

Sorry to hear you feel as you do, think you may find it hard to enjoy showing now you have had the idea put in your head. If you do continue and learn more about your breed you will find that you will understand more why a judge has placed the dogs as they have. You may not agree with what a judge does but you can usually understand why, you can also see the faults in your own dog and those who do not get placed .

Of course, there are judges who are plain dishonest, but very few, then there are those who are learning or incompetent, those who panic and loose their nerve and use other peoples choice and not their own. But the vast majority of judges do an honest job and place the exhibits to the best of their ability and knowledge, that does not mean it will be your exhibit.

Lets think clear about this, the reason most of us enjoy showing is the company of other dog owners and the chance of winning a class. Now if all judges were perfect and were able to judge to the standard all in the same way, most of us would never stand a chance as it would always be the same few dogs that would win. In a perfect world there would be no point in shows as once a dog had been assessed against the standard by one of these perfect judges and declared less than prefect quality there would be no point in continuing to show, you would know you would stand no chance. At least with things as they are nearly all the time you are getting an honest opinion and sometimes that opinion will be coming your way.

I take my dogs (very occasionally these days) to a show, try to ensure they enjoy it and only go to venues that have access to good food so it is more of a social outing than a "must win at all costs one" :)  :(

Christine

Hi lel, as Jackie H says some Judges are bent and some are incompetent but most are doing their best. Try sitting at the ringside and marking your schedule before the Judge decides, and then try to work out why she did what she did and why you agree or disagree. Don't chat with your friends while you are doing it - make your own decisions. Watch what she does through the classes and see if she is consistent in what she is looking for. If she is, although you may not agree, she is looking for a particular type or maybe punishing a particular fault that she feels has become too common in the breed. This sort of 'analysis' is fun and very educational imo.

The ethics of some breeders, including some well known ones are indeed questionable. But then today many of us would find the ethics that operated in the big kennels of the past that shaped many breeds today hard to swallow. Think about whether the breeder whose ethics you dislike is someone who only has dogs because winning is an extension to their ego, or if they are simply practical, unsentimental old fashioned stock people. Decide that the former are good examples of what you are not going to be. The latter are more difficult, because harsh and uncaring as they may seem in the past these were the people who had a real influence on breeds. Maybe it won't be the same now and in the future, but I find it an interesting point to ponder.

Treat shows as a place to see cracking good dogs which may (or may not) win, as a place to learn and as an antidote to kennel blindness. Enjoy the day out, make friends, keep out of politics and have fun :)

Hi
I've only been showing for a couple of years and am very lucky in choosing a breed where the people are as nice as the dogs. My oldest boy (3 next week) won our first ever RCC at the weekend and people couldn't have been nicer...loads of hugs and congratulations from everyone...made it really special.I can understand that if you feel judging in your breed is unfair that it must be very hard but I go for the day out with like minded people and any winning is a bonus.I expect nothing and than I come away happy at the end of the day whatever the result.
The only time I feel hard done by is if the judge hasn't given my dog the time he's given the others and this has only ever happened in AV classes.Then I just note the name of the judge and avoid them.
Don't give up...my boy was last or thrown out every time out in puppy and junior classes at champ shows and open but I still didn't feel like giving up ....stick around and it will come together eventually.  
Archer

Think in general Archer the owners of our breed really love the breed and there for although it is nice to win, it is just as nice to see a newcomer have a good win with a good dog. Just don't beat me too often ;)

Edit to add I thought he looked good the week before too. Some dogs take longer to mature and come into their own look at my Sod and his brother.

I've been showing now for 20 years and I still love it.  In my previous breed I won a few res. cc's and 1 cc, I was told by a number of top people that if they had taken in my boys that they wd. be champions, but I never wd. want this if I can't do it I don't want anyone else to do it.

Myself and my mum go out for an enjoyable day.  We have a laugh, take a picnic, show our dogs and if we win it's a great bonus, but if not it was still a great day out.  Must admit I've never got involved with the politics side of showing and don't really get too involved with people.  I will chat and have a laugh etc. but I will not get involved with the bitching side of things.

I've loved the last 20 years of showing and hope to do another 20 at least, maybe by that time the breed that I have now will be able to be shown properly and not just in import register classes :d

Thanks for your input everyone :)
Its not about Gus not being chosen because he has had some decent placings under respected judges and also qualified for Crufts .
Its hard to explain really :(
Part of it is the people who acquire a dog to show and then think they are automatic experts in the breed and talk about becoming breeders  (some even from a young age) etc.
Other things include judges who you are advised not to bother showing under because they are biased towards a particular dog or person .
If you are judging and have influence in a particular breed then why do they abuse this position by face picking etc . It should be the best dog who wins .I know human nature has a lot to answer for but sometimes and the way "some" people are influenced by certain factors rather than the dog.
I know if ten people were to place dogs from a particular class then you would probably have 10 different winners - I understand that . People like different features I understand that too.
I just hate the ethics of some people.

Hi Lel I love showing, and meeting the people who are my friends, they are genuine and we are thrilled when each others dogs do well, our dogs have a good time, we have a good time, and the Nasties........well we ignore them........they miss out on all the fun, too busy sniping and moaning, and making excuses as to why their dog did'nt do well......do we care nah.  :D :D.

Regards Chris x

I'm very new to showing and have only really been disillusioned because I feel I let my dog down because I'm not very good!!  I do realise though that it takes years to become a good handler and really know your chosen breed and I'm determined to do it myself.  Almost everyone I've met has been kind, helpful and encouraging and I've made some good friends and had some good laughs at shows.  I think you have to just accept that most people will welcome you and be friendly and some (in my breed very few) will not.  I am always very grateful for any criticism or advice I'm given as most people know far more than me and I always assume the judge knows best (whether I really think so or not!!).  I never take it too seriously and always take the best dog home!!
Best wishes
Alex

my daughter is 15 and shows her gsd, the dog is only 12 months old and she is doing well,there is one woman though that every time we are at a show,she waits until i am not around and then has a snipe at my daughter,tells her the dog is crap , don't know why we waste our money entering shows with her, she is the wrong type she is the wrong shape,etc etc etc, a couple of time other people have told me they overheard her sniping at my daughter,and they just called my daughter over to them and told her to ignore her,when i am around she is as nice as pie, the thing is daughter comming to end of tether with this woman,and she is ready to explode at her,but on Sunday we had the last laugh, she was in the ring with her dog,and my daughter was up against her and YES we beat her dog,and all the disillusionment my daughter had been feeling for weeks and weeks because of this woman vanished, my daughter turned around to her in the ring,and give a great big smile and went to shake her hand and the other woman stormed off without shaking hands, people weree clapping and cheering for my daughter as most of them knew what had been happening.people can be wicked but rise above it and prove them wrong.

Good for your daughter! Generally people are only bothered to be nasty if they feel your dog is better than theirs, and they want to put off the competition! They are the sort of people who think a win in a class of 1 is an achievement - and that winning is the most important thing! So obviously this nasty woman was right in her judgement - your dog is indeed better than hers! So :p to her!
:)

Well done to your daughter Hippychick.....remember they (Nasties) only snipe about the dogs that they are worried about.........which means those dogs are reasonably good.............The genuine folks try to help and advise regardless of what your dog is like.

:D :D

Hear, Hear!!
I've had the same nasty sniping about my GSD.  I let it all wash over me now, and it just makes doing well all the more fun!  Treat it as a nice day out, and you can't go wrong.

Merry Xmas everyone.

Sarah.

I have been showing for just a wee while and i know I don't have the best looking dog in the classes some times but judges are looking for different things even though they all try and keep to standard.Like,my Sox is quite athletic and well toned because I excercise her daily(not miles on end) and the ones that are winning just now are all chunky looking puppies where a few years ago Sox would have romped it because she is the way she is and that is what judges liked THEN.She is also the most sweet natured akita I have ever known and I know loads,and if I can go and not win and still enjoy my day talking to everybody and getting more advice then I'm happy and as long as she is not stressed then that's all i worry about.Even not winning,i'm quite happy to experience all this and we have to remember all this big names had to start somewhere too and they have been at it for years.Talk TO everybody and ABOUT nobody(or their dogs!!!)Sandra.

Hi Mali Fan must be common in Gsds I have had it as well treated like a newcomer to the breed I had a break with showing  for about 7 years, and came back 2 years ago, but having been brought up with Gsds  I must be serving my appreneticeship again The people who were trying to tell me things that were supposedly wrong with Jordan had not been in the showing world that long and they tried to tell me  I told them I know the faults on my bitch DO YOU KNOW YOUR DOGS FAULTS  needless to say it never happened again

Janines

Personnally, I've always thought that the reason people are bitchy is usually because they're jealous!

or losing

Go to the shows for a good day out with your dogs and with people you share interest with.  Ignore all the harsh remarks and complaining bores .  Eat, drink and be merry.  Don't worry if you lose - there's always tomorrow.  Listen to criticism but don't respond - there may be a grain of truth somewhere (learn from it or disregard it as you think fit).  Follow your heart and if you really don't like it, pack it in.

If you take it seriously you'll need a psychiatrist in 12 months' time, for sure!

Its a bit of an expensive day out.
Its a pity more people don't take more notice of as you say the harsh remarks and complaining bores.
More people may show there dogs.
All anyone can ask for is a fair crack of the whip.Not always the case.
You only need to read some of the judges critiques.Some shows Iv'e been to I never saw the dogs the judge was discribing.
No wonder entries in some breeds are dropping.
I got out.
Chow

Hello 'Chow' - well, it's no more expensive than a lot of other days out.  I have a very limited income, and watch the pennies - but my dogs are my love and my hobby.  Whether I win or lose, it's all the same to me, and I have been in various sectors of the dog world for many, many years and it has made me many good friends.

Very few forms of competition are completely fair, especially where personal judgement comes into play.  I don't judge 'breed' (but I used to judge obedience - and that is a long, hard day and a thankless task!!) but if someone doesn't like my dog(s) then I go under another judge who may.  That's the fun of the game:  I study the form of which judge likes what, but I try not to 'play politics'.  It's no worse than many other recreational activities... look at the refereeing in the Rugby World Cup final ! - but we won in the end.

P.S. - By the way, you misunderstood - I meant complaining bores etc. at the shows, not here on this board!

Hi MB
I made a lot of friends also in the dog world.Not just in Chows.
My dogs are our love also.
We always took the best two to the shows and fetched the best two back.
I like to see good dogs win.
I hate seeing dogs who are not to breed standard also limping and still get top awards.
Does nothing for the breed.This isn't sour grapes.
My two dogs are winners in life they dont need to go in a ring to prove it.
This is just my opinion.
Chow