A man I know has several dogs he keeps for 'shooting' some are labs and others springers. He sets himself up as a bit of an expert but has no love for any of them and uses training methods that would have him lynched if you saw him

Last night we were talking and he says that he thinks his young bitch (about 1 year) is having a phantom pregnancy. When I questioned him a bit more it turns out that he took her (IN SEASON) to a neighbours house to show them how mad she would send their 18 month old springer boy :rolleyes:  Obviously the dog mounted her but was seperated before they could tie. I asked if it was immediate and he said 'no, we had to let him have some fun after teasing him with her'

He thought that because they hadn't tied she couldn't be pregnant but she can, can't she? His mom was there and was very upset because she's still a puppy herself. :( She wanted the 'morning after pill' when I mentioned it but apparently this mating happened weeks ago and she's almost due. I said that they might find a vet who could spey and remove pups at the same time but he wants her intact to 'keep her sharp' and in case he wants to breed in the future.

When I said that he should try and work out when she's due and get a whelping box ready he said that they won't need one as he'll drown them the day they are born :( :( They don't have time for pups, he doesn't believe his bitch is in any danger (it's natural) and he's not prepared to take any responsability for his own stupidity!!!

My own dog wouldn't accept another adult into the house and I've my hands full with my own pup or I'd offer to take her until the pups are weaned. I've considered offering to take the pups to try hand rearing but I wouldn't want to fail them and break my kids hearts. I've also thought that I could 'house' her in my shed but this is far from ideal for a mum and new pups and I don't even think he would let me take her. 

I'm mad as hell about it and so frustrated that I don't think there's anything I can do - and what I want to do would leave me eating my christmas dinner as a guest of her majesty :rolleyes:

Rant over... calm again... NOT!

O Wishfairy
that poor little thing and the pups too :( :(
What an evil b*****d - I can understand your posting exactly .
Pity someone couldnt go and drown him !!!

:( :(

Unfortunatley alot of these game keeper types are like this, they have their dogs for a purpose and one of those isnt to love :(  when I was growing up my best friends dad worked gundogs and his only training method was a big stick - I used to cry when I saw him use it
:(  Although I dont think he would sink this low.

Not all people who have working gundogs are like this though :)  just a few who let the side down :( 

You'd think that people who 'needed' their dogs would be a little more respectful though :(

Every day I'm grateful to have mine and they are just there for friendship and love not working for me.

Guess he's just an idiot (at best) but it's hard not to want to intervene.

I hope you don't tar ALL gamekeepers with that brush.

I know people who would not know how to keeper a shoot who are just as disgraceful.

My father was a Game Keeper for over 50 years and is excellent on all animal husbandary - so much so that lots of people call him for assistance with the mating and whelping of their bitches.

A good Gamekeeper is a very useful person to have around.

Becky

This is an awful story I just hope he isnt really that heartless, and said it out of a desire to shock. How unkind to say this to a new puppy owner! Unfortunately some people cling to the old stomp and tug training methods whatever their profession as owning a dog is a power trip.

I know what I'd like to stomp on... his head :)

Then we'll tie a lump of concrete round his neck and drop him in the river....:D Its just a fantasy, honest.

As a person who does a bit of part time "Keepering" I can assure you a person like that is very much in the minority, possibly in the minority of one! One thing about Game Keepers is that they know animals and what makes them tick. A game keeper who does not know how a bitch gets pregnant is quite frankly unbelievable!

John

Do you see this person often ? do you know where abouts he lives ? I would immediately ring the Rspca or some other animal shelter, and if they dont help ring the police, you have got to stop this man from doing this ! his  dogs need to be taken from him as this is animal cruelty at the highest, how could anyone drown these pups ? if you dont want to get involved please forward the details via email to me and I shall sort it out, thank god he told you his intentions is all i can say.

glad you told us :)

Think this horrible man is a wannabe rather than a proper gamekeeper. Keeping gundogs does not a keeper make and we are not deceived in this house.

<<< this horrible man is a wannabe>>>  I think you're right about that.

I saw him today and asked after the bitch but he says she's just the same.  This blokes mum owns the chippy my husband manages so I think the way to go would be appealing to her better nature as she has one where his is obviously lacking. :(

Has anyone hand reared a litter before? I'm seriously thinking about offering to take them if I can't talk him into keeping them. He might keep them for a short while if I can convince him that his bitch may never be the same if she 'loses' the litter.

I would phone the RSPCA straight away. This man should not be allowed animals. The bitch should be spayed too. Failing the RSPCA the dog napping fairy? ;)

please dont say that there not all like that :(  with everything you get a couple that are nasty that could be in showing, or anything, all the kepers, i have met (my family are from a long like of keepers in norfolk and scotland) have always shown there dogs respect

where abouts are you in the country

excuse me...please do not think that people involved in keeping are all like that...in fact I would say that there were less that behave like that in "keepering" positions than there are in normal dog ownership. All the keepers I work alongside are good to their dogs and love them and treat them kindly. Perhaps you should consider this?

Oh I know it's not a general way with people who work their dogs. It's just this individual moron. :(

He believes women only have 2 uses too (one of them's cooking). Like I say he's stupid.

I've a feeling that the Wishfairy may just call her good friend the Dognapping fairy and see if she can work something out... something legal, of course ;)

seriously go to the police and inform them, if you now where his mother work send them there to find him, for this the dog will be rehomed with a rescuer who will help whelp the mother then rehome them all, please contact the police they will sort it out, he will not be allowed to own dogs for 10 years if you use this route, please report him you owe it to the dogs, you found out for a reason please dont forget about them xx

Sorry if I gave the impression that I think all people who use their dogs for working to the gun are horrible cruel people.  Unfortunately I have come accross a few that like their dogs to be scared of them and use this in order to train them :rolleyes: Other than that I wouldnt say they are cruel in anyother way and a gamekeeper is the best person to know if you want to know anything about the countryside and wildlife.   I have another friend whos dad has 6 dogs, all kept in the house - and sleep on the sofas he works them and loves them and trains them with kindness.  Unfortunately one of his is a rescue from someone who kept it locked in a shed and the only exercise it got was when he took it out on a shoot :(  You get bad people from all walks of life though, countryside people are usually the kindest :)

have you reported this man yet, you better be quick as the puppies could be due soon :)

To be honest, I doubt if the police would be interested as animal welfare isn't part of their remit. If he is being cruel to the dog then the RSPCA should be informed--a mating like this wouldn't be considered cruel.

What confuses me is how they act to PREVENT cruelty when it is difficult to prove a threat to drown pups. Do they have to catch him in the act, or just take photos of the results and prosecute ?

I don't think the police would do anything and the RSPCA will only become involved after the event - and even then if he uses the defense that it was less cruel to 'cull' the unwanted litter than to give them to already stretched rescue organisations or unsuitable homes they might just agree with him :(

I was talking with his mum today and she thinks that he's 'all talk' and wouldn't be able to do it. I've told her that if he can leave any pups with mum for a week I will try to take them after this (unless he has a change of heart) :(  I think it's the best I can do and hope he agrees to it.

I sincerely hope his Mum is right. Well done Wishfairy, with all youve got on your plate with wee Dizzy just now I think your offer is terrific. Hope all goes well with the birth seeing as shes such a young bitch.

if you were near me i would think about taking her in

hi

actually the police will do something, speaking from experience as I am from a family of police officers and most our pet dogs come from dogs handed in or rescued etc, if you ring the police and express your concern for the puppys they will go round and just have a word with the man and inform him that if he acts on his word he could be in serious trouble, thi may be all it will take for him to reconsider and rehome them etc

well done for all you are doing

please keep us posted

I must say that I'm very surprised (and pleased) that the police would be willing to become involved - I did once ring them as I heard a neighbour threaten to kick 'seven shades' out of one of his kids and they said thay couldn't do a thing until he actually raised his hand to them :( Another time they wouldn't come out when I witnessed several 'youths' beating a donkey with empty beer bottles :( :( :(

I guess I was just unlucky with the people I dealt with as I have a lot of respect and admiration for the police (especially those who serve over here).

where is it you live ?

:) Northern Ireland

I don't suppose you live in Lincolnshire do you? I went to school with a girl called Clare Sanders - she made me try goats milk :P

no thats not me im from birmingham

You are very wrong about the Police not being interested, I was a Copper for 10 years, and was often involved in animal cruelty cases. Unfortunately him not being able to keep animals for 10years is doubtful, and people often have a habit of breaking this one after conviction, but persevere. The hard one as you say is proving the threat to drown the puppies, but you should still take action. I dont know if all Forces have one - we do, but we are a rural county - and that is a dedicated countryside/ animal welfare Officer, who knows all the gamekeepers - it might be worth seeing if you Force has one. Good luck - go for it!

I agree debs like I have said before the police will do something they are here to help and will if they can :)

When my daughter "rescued" her spaniel puppy, we could not get the RSPCA to even come out of their office into their car park to look at the poor little dog who was in a terrible state. Yet when we asked the Kennel Club for help they suggested reporting it to the police which we did and they went and investigated the bloke who still had the mother and the other puppies. The police sorted it all out and were very helpful. They still ask after Jack when ever they one of us around town.

:D :D :D Good news!

The bitch whelped last night and had 8 healthy puppies. They look like springer x lab so his own boy must have got to her to :rolleyes:

I've been working on him 'gently' since the start of this whole horrible story and eventually got him talked round to letting the puppies live for the sake of his bitch. It helped greatly that someone said if they turned out to be springers or 'springadoors' they'd be worth £100 each :rolleyes: but at least this got his interest!

One has already been requested but now we've to find suitable homes for the others - I've said I'll help so they don't just go to other morons like himself!

Thanks everyone for your advise and support with this one :)

So glad it has been okay up to now. That was really clever using the hated novelty cross breed line to help him save face, whoever did it.How are you finding homes for the pups, Wishfairy? LOL at visions of Dizzy and you turning up on friends doosteps and saying " So, do you want an adorable springa door or shall I let the Dane lick you without mercy?"

I hadn't thought of that method but if it helps I might give it a go ;)

Sadly one of the pups was dead when he checked on them this morning. He said it was horrible having to take it out of the box so I think he may be softening up a bit... amazing what a cute puppy can do to a heartless idiot :)