Does anyone know anything about congenital abnormality of the penis in dogs?

Breeder X gave a stud to Breeder Y. I don't know if the bitch has had a previous litter, but the stud has already sired 3 lovely normal litters.

X was disappointed that she hadn't heard much about how the pups were doing. Then when they were 16 weeks old, Y phoned to say two had been born dead - no reason suggested, one has a coat abnormaility, two are cryptorchid, two have 'very bad mouths', one pup is 'OK' - and one was born with no willy!

X was told the penisless pup had had extensive surgery during it's first week and was alive. And that the 'OK' pup and one of the ones with a 'very bad mouth' were being 'run on' for Y by Breeder Z.

Two born dead, OK it happens; the coat problem gene has turned up on both sides, and was a known risk; cryptorchidism and bad mouths are rare in the breed, but OK again, some people have bad luck and with the best will in the world some sets of genes just don't get along.

But no penis? I searched the 'net this evening but couldn't find anything at all about congenital canine absence of willies.

Has anyone every heard of anything like this?

I've not seen it before, but I remember watching a programme on TV several years ago where a couple weren't sure if their pup was a dog or a bitch. It was a bit of both. It does happen, but very rarely. I don't know if they found a reason for it, it was too many years ago. Sorry I can't help anymore.

Thanks LindyLou. :) Those pups must have been hermaphrodites. It happens to people as well but I've never heard of one with no sex organ at all. Apparently this pup not only lacked a penis, he had no piddling apparatus at all. So I'd have thought that surgery would have to be done within 48 hours or less and am amazed that the pup survived.

BTW I want to use this stud dog myself in the future, so I'm curious but the tale of woe hasn't changed my mind. Do any of you think I'm silly to still consider using him?

I would only have major concerns if my bitch was related to the bitch that had this litter. If he has sired normal litters before, it seems apparent that her genes and his are a bad match.

My bitches ped. is about as far away from her's as it's possible to get in the breed, so that's reassuring. Mine doesn't carry the coat gene either.

The bitch could have come into contact with some sort of chemical during or just before she became in whelp.

Thanks Jackie H :) I don't know Breeder Y that well, just on the chatting about the weather level, so you could be right. And if it was a chemical Y might not know herself. The main thing I'm curious about is that a pup with no method of piddling survived at all. Must say if I had a litter with so many problems, I'd be tempted to cull the lot. :(

I'm afraid I must agree with the previous post. I would cull the entire litter when faced with such massive abnormalities in almost EVERY puppy, keeping these dogs alive would just be handing a potential timebomb onto a new owner, no one knows what kind of hidden abnormalities (behavioral or otherwise) might be sent off to a new home, or might be continued in the breed, in the case of the single healthy puppy.
While it could be a chemical that had influenced the abnormalities, I would think it unlikely in this case. Most dog owners are paranoid about any chemicals around their dogs, far less a stud bitch.
Personally I would not use this stud dog, as he could be passing on recessive genes to his pups, thus decreasing the overall health of the breed as a whole.....but that's just my opinion.

What about medication ? Were either dog being treated for anything prior to breeding?

Medication is a possibility but as this was a planed mating I would think that the owners of both the dam and sire would have said something to the vet. Unless they were medicating themselves, some people think that alternative or herbal medication is safe, but of course, it is not, if given incorrectly or in the wrong quantity or combination.

Could the pup of had a Hypospadius where the uretha opening is in a different spot.

My breeder had a pup in a litter with this and they did surgery on him and he pee's pretty much from the same spot a female would and his penis hole was sown shut even though it never worked in the first place, because his opening was down closer to his testies.

I have seen some pictures where the penis is nothing more then a little we nub.....

Hello dollface, the story is of no penis or urethral opening at all. But I haven't seen the pup myself and I can't see how it could have survived even 24 hours with no opening, so you might well be right.

Hi Snowtiger & Jackie H, I know for certaint that the male was not on any medication and in fact has never been to the vet except for boosters etc. I don't know about the dam, but would be surprised by anyone mating a bitch that was on meds and would have expected Breeder X to be told if she'd been put on drugs after conception.

Hi Snowtiger, I agree about the possibility of recessives and it is worrying. But he is an older gent so two of his earlier litters are adult and he's also a grandfather twice over from his first litter. Nothing has shown up in any of his pups or grandpups. I've been mulling over at his pedigree for over a year now, and apart from the coat problem gene (which rarely expresses itself), there isn't anything worrying. Someone asked if my bitch was related to the mother of the problem litter and if she was I definitely wouldn't use him, but she has nothing in common before the 6th generation. Nor does she carry the coat gene, and it has to be on both sides. So I think I'll still to use him, with fingers crossed, but agree that your pov is completely valid.

Agree Jas, was only thinking of a possible reason, and if it was a field spray or something dumped in a ditch the breeder may not know, it may not have affected the dam at all. Would not dream of trying to raise such deformed pups, even in a rare breed, pups of such poor quality can not be needed.

Hi everyone. Was reading this post with interest the other day, when this morning I had one live pup delivered by ceaser, with no 'willy' to speak of he is weeing through a hole where his 'willy' should be, he also has the faint outline of female sex organs, me or the vet didn't notice, till I got him home, I was so shocked! I expect I will have to put him to sleep, it is very upsetting. He is such a sweetie as well :-(

Mollygog,

Why would you have to put him down? My breeder had one born with a hypospaduis who was operated on and who is doing very well. She gave him to someone she know's and she still see's him, actually they got another pup off of her and they said that he is a real good little boy. The little guy still lifts his leg to wee but he shoots the other way so it goes backwards instead of forward :D they just don't stand behind him. I would say if there is nothing else wrong with him and he can pee with no problems then let him live, so what if he looks a little different people shouldn't be looking that close there anyhow.

I have one who was born with a rectal prolapse and was told to pts. I did a purse string on him which never worked at all. Could have his rectom sown to his colon but it may not work, could end up with infections and he could be in alot of pain 50-50 chance it would even work. He (Dozer) is now 2 years old and still doing good. His bum does get a little sore if he gets the poo's but I just put some stuff on him, but I wouldn't change it I'm glad I never pts, he is a joy to have around.

Hello mollygog, very sorry to hear about your pup. :( But why not do as dollface suggessts and at least investigate the possibility of corrective surgery. As he seems to have the appearance of female sex organs, 'he' might even be a she with a small fistula from the bladder to the abdomen that with luck could be a fairly minor repair.

I'd agree with PTS if it was a full litter because I wouldn't sell on a 'risky' pup healthwise, but as he's a singleton presumably you will be keeping him so there is no moral dilemma involved. Under those circumstances I'd be very tempted to try, and hope for better luck next time.

You've all my sympathy whatever you decide.

Hi The puppy passed away, within 24 hours of being born, he wouldn't feed and was very weak, the others in the litter were born dead due to a massive accumilation of fluid so I think there may have also been other problems. Thanks for the replys

mollygog,
I'm very sorry :(