I would just like to say a big thank you  to all that has given me support THANK YOU ALL. You all have put my mind at ease.

they may have not been going to leave it on its own, they may have objected to the question, i have to say a lot of breeders tend to give you the 3rd degree when trying to purchase a puppy which is correct to a degree, but a person who had planned on leaving a puppy on its own would never tell the breeder they'd just lie, so it could be that they were actually offering the pup a good home, surely when you meet the propective owners you get a gut feeling, or was this pup booked over the phone?

Jackie I am sorry but did you ask the breeder of your puppy questions and did he/she answer them to your satisfaction Obviously so why should a breeder not be concerned about their puppies and ask questions or as you put it give them the 3rd degree in my mind I would be worried about a breeder that didnt.They obviously wouldnt be breeding for the right reasons.Puppies can be bought with no questions asked is that the kind of breeder you would recommend.It is a two way street you want a good breeder that raises their puppies correctly and cares about where they go so why shouldnt that said breeder want an owner that will do the best they can for the puppy they have raised and if that includes asking how long puppy will be left then so what.Who said it was going to be left too long?By reacting to the question as she did the buyer gave the breeder no way of assessing how caring they were and weather they would be happy with their arrangements for the puppy.JMHO

i said the breeder has to try and make sure the puppy goes to a good home thats obvious, but some are over the top and on there guard before you even ask the first question why breed and sell puppies at all if your that suspicious, anyone who is going to spend hundreds of pounds obviously really wants a puppy with no intention of mis treating it!

They may have no intention of mistreating it, but may in fact through ignorance do exactly that. Even rescue centres will make a potential adopter fill out forms (legally binding) and do homechecks. And that's for much cheaper dogs!

I'm sorry jackie r, but I must disagree. Many people WILL spend hundreds of pounds on a puppy, and then get rid of it, and some will be mis-treated too :(  You only have to ask the Breed Rescues about it, and Animal Shelters. Being an expensive pedigree, is no guarentee of going to a good, knowledgable or patient home.

I wouldnt entirely agree with the line that people paying hundreds of pounds would not mistreat a dog . You only have to look in rescue centres - breed rescue centres especially :(
Staffies for example cost £250 upwards for an UNregistrered dog and we all know that some are used for fighting :(
The majority wouldnt mistreat but that doesnt go for everyone and I think a breeder that takes their time to assess every new or potential owner deserves a pat on the back !

Jackie r, you really need to spend some time doing dog rescue.  There are very many dogs, costing hundreds, who end up in rescue on a regular basis.  Just off the top of my head - akitas and dalmations are much more frequent in rescue recently and are not exactly cheap to buy as puppies.  Both suffer from the 'cute puppy' syndrome and both need owners who understand their needs, rather than merely having the cheque book handy.

thats was my point in the first place, a breeder can ask the questions but it does'nt mean their getting the truth! these people probably took offence because they had no intention of leaving the puppy, wheres a person who was going to leave it would just lie!  all puppys are cute but what the breeder fail to tell the prospective buyer is the downfalls with certain breeds as they are very bias about their own dogs! i once rang round different breeders and they all said the same thing you could'nt wish for a better breed but no mention of any bad traits you may come across through adolesants. too busy seeing the ££££££££££ signs.

Well If they took offence at a simple question such as how long the puppy will be left then as I said they gave the breeder no way of assessing wheather they would be loving caring owners.Also dealers do approach breeders and do pay money for puppies to be sold on who knows where so to my mind anyone who wouldnt answer this question wouldnt get a puppy from me.

In my book, a potential owner who takes offence at being asked how long a puppy is to be left, would not even be considered for a puppy!

My puppies' well-being is more important to me than the bruised feelings of a person that I do not know.     You are right Jackie R, some people will tell lies if they think they can achieve their aim - and it is the aim of every good breeder that I know to ask enough questions that will eventually show who is not telling the complete truth.    You may take offence at the breeder who eyes you suspicously at first - but these puppies have had a lot of love, time and yes money, invested in them - would you let anyone take a child of yours without knowing a lot about that person?   It's the same with my puppies!

Margot

money invested in them? well you sure make alot of money out of the people who buy them, and i doubt that was the only question the buyers were asked! why do you breed if at the end of the day you make no money out of it and you can't be sure the pups will go to good homes?

That is a most objectionable thing to say about responsible breeders, most of whom make no more than a small profit on the actual litter which is a drop in the ocean when ofsetting against the cost of keeping, feeding and exhibiting/working their chosen breed.

My current litter, with very few problems other than checking if there was a retained puppy by scan and x-ray cost me £1200.  I sold three pups (£500 each) and kept one.  This is actually the first time I have bgred two litters in the same year (not same bitch obviously) as I had not had a litter in the previous 18 months.

Looking at my little book from the time I sold the first litter to the time of selling this, apart from the £1200 spent on the litter, I have spent a further £600 on the dogs (in roughly 6 months).  I do not attend lots of shows, only about 20 a year at the very most (that is including Open and exemption).   So from £1500 in puppy sales I have spent £1800, a net loss of £300.

So a large litter a year (these two litters were of four pups each) would at best offsett half my dog expenses.  Breeding dogs sone properly is a hobby that at best recoups some costs, and allows you to keep the lines going, for myself and others to enjoy.

Including the new puppy I only own 5 dogs (plus 1/4 ownership in an imported dog, another investment in the breed who will never make in stud fees what he ahs so far cost).  I don't show more than two at a time.  I hate to think of the costs involved in campaigning a large show team, or running large breed kennel.

YES! Money inevested in the dogs & any puppies that I may try to rear!
*I* breed in the hope of producing healthy dogs that are typical of their breed. Also in the hope of producing as close to perfect as possible that will do well in the ring, but if not at least that will go on to provide a loyal companion & bring happiness to a caring family.
Invested because its my HOBBY & I love doing it & being with my dogs, but judging by the tone of your post that may be beyond your comprehension!
I have never made money from my dogs or pups. Done for the sheer enjoyment of them & because I can afford to!
I also know a few others who feel the same as I do.

Christine, Spain.

Why do we breed if we don't make money?   Why do people own and run expensive cars?   Go on expensive holidays?   Buy expensive clothes?

We own and breed dogs because we love the breeds that we own, and as you will have seen from the responses to your questions here, we don't do it to make money - it does cost us money - to run the health checks, the veterinary costs for dam and puppies, the extra food and heating.   It costs time to travel half way across the country to use the best possible stud dog who will enhance your bitch's best points; it means taking unpaid leave from work to look after mum and babies, and it takes time to ensure that we do find the right home for our puppies, and the patience to keep waiting for the right owners.  It can also be heartbreaking - you only have to read some of the threads here, to see the sad stories of bitches and puppies dying just before the pups should have been born, of puppies being born still-born, or dying from fading puppy syndrome.

So why do we do it?   For the sheer joy of waiting with your bitch. watching the miracle of birth, seeing each baby as it is born - recognising which baby is "your" baby, dreaming that maybe, you have the next Crufts Supreme Champion (and keep dreaming on :) ) of watching these little wriggling bodies growing into the finest possible - or not :(  - specimens of their breed that you are capable of breeding - and recognising the growing characters.   I consider that I am privileged to be able to do this, it is also a responsibility - but it is a responsibility that I am very happy to accept.

I would ask you to read some of the old threads on this forum and you may realise that there is a lot more than money involved in breeding good dogs.   We are happy to share our knowledge with people who genuinely want to learn.  

Very well said Lokis Mom....agree wholeheartedly :)

Lisa

Jackie r. Quite a few of your previous posts have been rather rude, your last one is downright offensive.

Couldn't agree with you more Liberty. 

I have found a lot of Jackie r's posts nasty, but this one takes the biscuit.

The majority of people who breed on this board are very caring responsible people, who adore their dogs and are striving to improve on what they have for the benefit of the breed they are in.

I have never made money on my pups, and what money is received when they are sold, is ploughed straight back into the dogs in someway or another. Whether it is showing, veterinary fees or food.

I don't know what breed of dog you have jackie, but whatever it is somewhere down the line, some breeder put a lot of thought into breeding your dogs ancestors, and without them you wouldn't have the dog you have now.

As for asking questions, well my buyers get more than that they get the third degree and I am proud of that.  It means that I have in 15 years only ever had one puppy returned to me.

Until the new owners walk out of my door with their new baby in their arms, those puppies are my responsibility.  I make sure they are fed correctly, they are healthy and they are well socialised, and anyone who wants one of them has to satisfy me that they are going to offer the same.  Like someone else said after all these years I get a gut feeling sometimes, and when I do, sorry but they don't get a pup.  If they offered me double or treble the price they still wouldn't get one abd I admire the guest who started this post, may more breeders act as she has.

it was I who said don't you get a gut feeling actually, you see the thing is you always bang on about how much money you put in and don't make any profit well say you have 8 in a litter and sell each at £600 or more now come on you have made a profit and i would expect you have insurance which will pay for any unexpected health costs during pregnancy, and do you warn the buyers what their in for when the cute little puppy turns about 8mths, i know someone who put a deposit down on a pup after going to choose it got all the selling spiel from the breeder then less than a week before she was due to collect him she phoned up to say she had decided to keep him but they could have the one that was left.  so this pup was obviously turning out good enough to show or breed from, which i don't think is on there should be a contract that protects the buyer as well stating once the deposit is down the pup is sold, not be told  its now not for sale cos the breeder realises it will be a good dog to make money from!!

and i am not rude i have an opinion and am not afraid to air it and i quite obviously hit a few sore spots!

Jackie r, most insurance policies do not cover whelping (that's having puppies; in case you didn't know) :(

Having an opinion is all well and good. Being as rude as you are about it isn't.

don't try make out i know nothing about breeding i well aware of what whelping means thanks people who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do!

Maybe you should look a bit closer to home with your accusations then, we all know our own tricks best....don`t we?????????
;)

Christine, Spain.

And just lets say we care more for our dogs than your trying to make out!
And lets just say you can`t add up!
And just lets say you don`t know what your talking about!
And lets just say I have an opinion & not afraid to air it & thats mine of you because you don`t know what your talking about!

Christine, Spain.

And I just wonder if Jackie even owns a dog
Jean

i know exactly what i'im talking about  people are fed up with whinging breeders if you don't do it for the money then why are you always going on about your losses

Who`s going on about losses then????? I`m certainly not.
Don`t you understand English? I gave you a perfectly clear explanation why & so did a few others but it obviously was too much for you to understand, aww bless, you have my sympathies....
:p

Christine, Spain.

LOL christine !!!!! so tell me if you had 2 people who both wanted the only pup left but the one who you thought would give the best home could'nt afford the asking price but the other could would you let the pup go for less?? 

I`ve given a pup away for free to the best home, out of the last litter I had.
You`re move next I think ;)

Christine, Spain.

well you would say that christine! did it have 3 legs?

You asked I told you. Whats up???? Didn`t you want to hear that???
She had 4 legs & was a beauty!! :)

Christine, Spain.

surprised you had to give it away does that happen a lot when no one wants to buy them?

Wouldn`t know about others but I have a very long waiting list myself
I made it a present to the man¬s family who was made redundant unexpectedly, but there again don`t expect you would understand that either :p

Christine, Spain.

god bless christine, but are you sure he's going to be able to afford to feed it and take it to the vets, that was a risk!

We have the same vet so no probs there :p

Christine, Spain.

that is'nt answering the question you have given a puppy to someone who has no job a little irreponsible maybe is'nt it christine aa 

Why?

because christine dogs cost money to feed and vets have to be paid and with no job money will be tight

Well you only know half the story so I`d say your making presumptions. In other words jumping the gun!

Christine, Spain.

and i'd say you've dropped yourself right in the doggy do do!

oh you've gone quiet christine?

Theres only one person winging here...........'nuff said.

Jackie, you're becoming even more irritating than normal.

look join in the debate or go on msn if you just want idle chat!

I can't think of anything worse than Idle Chat with you. I have added my opinion to a message board, but unlike yourself, it is not vindictive.

oh dear! iwas'nt offering to chat to you, good god no!

Thank heavens for that!!

oh your still idley trying to chat to me then i think you like me?

Answering your questions is all I`m doing, you have such a thirst for knowledge :D

Christine Spain.

but thats it you only answer the ones you have a smart answer for as i asked before do you tell buyers what there in for when the pup turns about 6 months or are you scared this will put them off spending their money?

Don`t know how your pups turn out but mine are fine at 6mths old, so can`t answer when I don`t know what your talking about!

Christine, Spain.