There must be something we can do. It's becoming a nightmare thinking about it. But burying my head in the sand isn't going to keep my dogs in working /showing condition or keep my boarding kennel guests in nice shiny condition. HELP
Lynn

It occurs to me instead of doing the normal British thing of sitting back, and hoping it will go away, we should all be writing to the National papers to our MP's (type in MY MP in your search engine you will be asked for post code and his/her details will come up) and forming a group. I am amazed that there are still a number of people who are tripe feeders who know nothing about it.
Going to the LKA? ---- spread the word.
Not only are our dogs going to suffer (I have fed tripe for over 30 years) but so is the enviroment, are they going to incinerate all this waste and pollute our countryside all the more.
Come on you Brits out there get into gear.
cabs

I went to Albion meats today to get stocked up and had a word with Katherine while i was there,she said they have had a visit from an inspector from defra last week,it was suggested that one way round it might be to state on the packaging,This product must be cooked, what you choose to do with it once you get it home is down to you,also that the meat sent for sampling be sent cooked.

Yes I have now faxed my MP and I've included my comments on a yougov poll re anything happened in politics this week . We have to do something or the situation will be the farmers paying more for slaughtering(passed on cost of disposing of tripes -most likely enviromentally UNfriendly) Dog owners tearing their hair out trying to keep their dogs in condition and the Vets making a fortune treating dogs with digestive disorders
Lynn

I've been down to landywood today and they have got no where with their area vet and so has managed to find the details of the person at DEFRA in London who is dealing with this mess. 

Landywood pointed out to her that there were various rumours going  around all conflicting and they needed to know what was going to happen after the 1.1.04 (the enforcement date).  The lady at DEFRA confirmed that they were trying to get an extension to sometime in July (and she is in negotiation with the PFMA regardig this) which will give them time  to find a solution to the sampling problems.  Defra did say that the rules had been introduced following the recent poultry scam and were aimed at getting rid of unlicenced manufacturers and suppliers and ensuring the all meats produced are passed fit and that they come from a proper source.  Landywood did point out that they, as well as many thousands of dog owners in the UK, fed raw and their meats come from cattle passed fit for human consumption and that all raw meats contain ecoli etc so all samples would come back positive and all meat going to the human food chain is not so tested.   The lady at DEFRA was aware of this and this was the sticking point - when the regulations were put together they had overlooked the raw feeders!!  Anyway the lady at DEFRA has confirmed that Landywoods raw meat production can continue after 1.1.04 and will get back to them once things have been finalised.  The lady at DEFRA is apparently compiling a list of raw meat manufacturers since she does not have full details of companies that do.   I understand that people delivering raw meats (who are not the manufacture) will also need a licence since they will have to produce details of where they but the meats from, keeping records and their vehicles will also have to be inspected and passed as well.  If anyone wants the DEFRA lady's name, phone number and possibly her address (we could all write expressing our views) then I can try and get it.

I think alot of us would like the DEFRA lady's name and address - at least it sounds as if she appreciates the problem.

Lynn

Thanks to rugrott for keeping us posted.
I have just got back from the LKA and owners I spoke to roughly divided into  3 groups.
1. They didn't believe me
2. They had heard about it but didn't think it would come into force
3. They knew about it and had contacted their suppliers which were many and varied most telling them they would get their next order as my supplier has.
cabs

Don't panic people.

The wheels are in motion with DEFRA to sort the problem out. This regulation was rushed through to stop the illegal selling of condemmed poultry and they have sudden realised that they forgot about the hundreds of raw meat feeders in this country. I have had a long chat with Janet at Landywoods as we are both producers and she has told me what to do and given me the number of the lady in London and I will try again on Monday to speak to her.

Hope it gets sorted D/Danes, thanks for the updates :)

Christine, Spain.

We have just read Dog World and can find NOTHING this week about this!!! This is very surprising as it will affect thousands of us who believe that feeding raw meat as part of a dogs diet is best for them. Speaking to various other dog owners they think we are joking and cannot believe us. Just keep hammering the messsage home before it is too late.

Update for everyone.

I have spoken to the lady at DEFRA, who has said they are looking at ways round the sampling, maybe one a week and to apply for the new licence as usual but omit the section about sampling results. She said that hopefully she will be apply to put something on the web site by the end of the week. www.defra.gov.uk (don't know how to put a link).

Is there any hope for those of us who collected our tripe direct from the abbatoirs to feed to our dogs do you know?

Christine
Edit:  I have just spoken to the person at Defra I have been in touch with and he *hopes* to have news for me by the end of tomorrow - fingers crossed it is good news

I dont think so since I believe you need a licence to carry them and the vehicle has to be inspected and carry a certificate of some sort.  I know when landywood spoke to the lady at Defra who has been appointed by the government to oversee all this that they pointed out that animal owners had the right to feed their dogs the way they wanted to and how they saw fit and that this new regulation was taking away their liberties.  I hope it gets sorted satisfactory since I have no intention to feeding my dogs other than natural.  Keep us posted.

Thought I would keep everybody upto date in Scotland. I spoke to my area vet today who view's the whole thing as a bit of a mess!! Every vet seems to have a different interpretation of the legislation and has to take further advice. I would be grateful for name and contact detail of "lady at defra".

Hi Campell, if you email dozeydanes privately or telephone landywood they could supply you with the number, since both of these have spoken to the Defra lady.

The gentleman from Defra got back to me and said they are "talking" about this problem but he is now off on holiday for a few weeks.  He told me to get in touch with my local State Veterinary Service which I did.

After a chat with the local State Vet he sent me a 13 page form to fill in (well the relevant bits anyway) and I have done so although my dogs are pets rather than a registered pack of hounds or recognised kennel (I assume boarding), and I now wait to hear back to see whether my transport, documentation, storage and hygine facilities etc are suitable.  The vet knew immediately which abbatoir I had been using without my telling him and said that he had so far sent out the form to one other person who had not got back to him yet.

Are (were) there other owners on this board who got their tripe direct from an abbatoir or was I the only one?

Christine

Landywood have now got back to me. They have received a call from their area vet and have also spoken to Sue Boulton (DEFRA) in London following her return from Brussels.  All licenced plants have had their licences extended until the middle of next year whilst Defra sort out an amendment to the new regs as regards sampling so that when samples are taken the results can be accepted in some way.  Five samples are to be taken each week and Sue Boulton will be posting something on Defra's web site over the next couple of days.  Defra's main aim, Landywood believe, is traceability of meat from around the country which is a good thing I think.

DEFRA have now posted an update on their web site on the raw meat regulations.

Hi Dozeydanes

Whereabouts - the only update I can find for yesterday concerns a drought order - can you give a route to follow or a specific word to search for please

TIA

Christine

In the green header click on Animal Health & Welfare when that page appears click on Animal by-products and then click on the item dated 23rd December 2003. Sorry I don't know how to do a link. If you are still having problems email me direct and I will send it to you.

Ann

Thanks Ann

Once you told me where to look I found it easily/

Does not answer for us individual users yet though - I am still waiting to hear from the area State Vet as to whether I can collect direct from abbatoir.

Fingers still crossed

Merry Christmas

Christine

Christine, I believe you can be registered as an Ender User, that means you can collect from an abattoir for your own dogs only.

Ann

Hi Ann

That is the form I have filled in BUT end users are listed as registered packs of hounds or recognised kennels and I don't come under either of these.

I had hoped to hear by now but I wait patiently with fingers crossed

Merry Christmas

Christine

Think we need to bring this to natural feeders attention. The situation will not go away - we have until July

pod, have you actually read the updates on the DEFRA web site because they have now changed the rules slightly in processors favour although there will be extra costs for us.

Dozeydanes
What category material does your vet put tripe under 2 or 3?
There seems to be different opinions.

Campbell - tripe comes under category 3 material.

Yes that's what I thought but my vet says tripe is category 2 while my abattoir has it as 3?????

Campbell - jazzmin10@btopenworld.com

Campbell and cabs if you mail me direct I will give you a number to ring.

Could you confirm e-mail.

The Animal By-Products Regulations 2003
Approval of the use of animal by-products for feeding to dogs from recognised
kennels. Am I being very dim! What is a recognised kennel??

Well maybe we can use the loosest interpretaion of kennel to mean more than two dogs.  My dad says I live in a kennel, as there are more dogs than people her!  Those if us with an affix surely can say we are a recognised kennel in our breed?????

Kerioak dobermans, recognised dobe kennel!!!

Hi Brainless

I'm trying and have sent my form back but just hope it does not cause me problems in other directions

Recognised kennels are commercial kennels or hunt kennels NOT domestic. Sorry

Can anyone give the definition of a commercial kennel?
We deliver pet food and also have a kennel of show dogs which are 'connected' to the business. Thus our kennel is commercial in that sense!

Commercial usually means that the business in question provides a living for at least one person, (is commercially viable) as opposed to providing top up cash (paper round type of thing). If your own dogs could be said to contribute toward your business in any way would depend on the circumstances and the person looking at your case. That is until there are strong guidelines.

Don't know but would think that commercial kennels would be those who board dogs and may be vets who have dogs in hospital blocks, and hunt kennels. If guard dogs or search and rescue are kennelled together then I guess that may count too, as they could said to be a tool of the trade.