Given the huge amount of entries into Crufts each year do you think they actually check EVERY entrys qualification details??
I know they are supposed to but it just seems such a vast time consuming job !! :o
Lel

Can't believe they do, altho' it must be easier these days with computers. I do remember years ago a dog in our breed was shown, unqualified, think the owners genuinely thought he as, but we didn't have CCs at that particular show. He didn't get placed, so don't suppose anyone complained, but had he won something I'm sure a complaint would have been lodged!
So, it's probably policed more by other exhibitors than by the KC!

The printers use a very detailed data base, and I would think it is they who do the checking. Have you not noticed that a dog that wins it's third CC but is entered in Post Grad or Limit is still given it's CH. even though it was not a CH. when it was entered.

Hi Jackie,
Can you just answer a quickie for me, can a dog qualify at a champ show where cc's are not on offer?
regards
sarah

Only if there are classes for the breed at Crufts but the breed does not have CC's. Like the BGVG or the Mals. If your breed has CC at some shows then it is at those shows you have to qualify. You can also qualify by winning BIS, RBIS or BPIS at open shows.

I does seem crazy to me that you qulaify with BIS etc at an open show, but if you win BIS at a Ch show whrre you did not have tickets that BIS win does not qualify you!
bye
Gwen

I completely agree Gwen.  It is called Kennel Club Logic!!!!

Also, I think that a Group win or Place should get a KC Stud book number.

Think about it, I have dogs in Band E.  Therefore 3rd in Limit qualifies (mind you we do get 20 + in the Limit classes).  However, a dog which does not get CCs - such as Chesapeake Bay could theoretically win its class, BOB and the Group and get diddly squat.

Becky

Does seem illogical, but is it likely that an exhibit would win BIS at a champ show and not be able to take a third place at a champ show where it did have CC's. With that in mind may be it is not that illogical after all, should that happen then I think it would be fair enough to think there was something wrong with the win.

But what about Australian Sheepdogs?  There is that wonderful dog - Climate Controlled who has won Groups.  However, that breed does not have CCs (yet) so he does not even have a stud book number.  that is my point - not the Crufts qualification but the allocation of stud book numbers.

Becky

What good would it do the dog to have a stud book number, they will get there soon I would expect and when it is thought there is a good base of both enthusiasts and stock in the country the KC will no doubt accept the clubs standard and award CC's, then you can have it if that is what you want and your dog is good enough, a stud book number. In the mean time be pleased with your awards, if I won a group at a Champ Show the last thing I would be worried about would be a stud book number.

May be wrong but I think that stud numbers are meant to signify excellence within the breed, it is not intended to be a AV award.

Yeah, because you don't even have to have the right or any "equipment" to be in the KC Stud Book :D

Think I'll but out, have no idea what you are talking about.

:D Your dog can be neutered and still be in the KC Stud Book :D

It is an example of what the dogs, dam and sire are producing. Agree the word 'stud' is out of date and also applies to bitches, but then so are a lot of things in our language, and if nothing else, harking back add a certain sense of history, don't you think. Providing everyone understands the purpose of the award what it is called is unimportant.

At one time when you entered you dog for a show you put the price you wanted to sell it for as well, don't think that is done anymore at dog shows but it is at live stock shows when the exhibits are often auctioned off after the show, the winners commanding a high price. I love the history of the dog show and would hate to loose everything from the past.

:D Absobloominglootly :D

Many years ago the works Norton racing team went to America to take part in one of their Prestige events. On winning the race they were rather perturbed when an American arrived at the pit counter and slapped down a Cheque. Unknown to the Norton team, at that time there was an AMA rule which stated than any motorcycle in the race could be brought for a fixed price. ($100 if I remember rightly!) The Norton's had been prepared expense no object!

The first few obedience events I ever worked a dog in had a section on the entry form for you to put the selling price of your dog down!

Best wishes, John

Blimey, like Claimers horse races?! :)

Have access to a 1936 Crufts Catalogue and some of the dogs in that are priced, shows how things have changed. There are very few kennels now where dogs are bred as stock and to sell your Crufts winner would not cause you any concern what so ever. Today most of us show our beloved pets and friends and we darn well want to take them home.

Exactly Thome. Norton's managed to negotiate a deal over their works bike and sold a second string machine instead and the AMA changed the rules for the following year. Had to or no works team would have ever gone there again!

As you know Jackie, right into the 50's the bulk of pedigree dogs were bred by the big breeding kennels. Few people showed a dog except these big kennels. Showing was always known as the shop window for their wares and hobby breeders and showers had not been invented! These big breeders, towards the end of this period to include the Labrador greats such as Mary Roslin-Williams and Gwen Broadly, knew their lines backwards. Knew what went with what and what not to put to what. They founded, or at least helped to found the wonderful dogs we have now, and all that without the aid of genetic testing or until later in their lives, hereditary testing. It was all done by outstanding animal husbandry.

Best wishes, John

Yes, and a bitch can also be spayed.

The Stud Book is NOT produced as a record of a dog's breeding prowess.  It is a record of wins at Shows, Field Trials etc, with the breeding of the winning dogs etc.

i have a full set of KC Stud books - going back over 100 years and they are fascinating - full records of all the shows and trials.  

Interesting too is that the KC rules and regs only went over a couple of pages!

Becky