for or against?
im personally for, i think they are gorgeous and a great idea for blind or deaf people with allergies.

Gem x

I don't wish to be argumentative, but this one has been done to death. Do a search using the word Labradoodles, then do the maths.
Dawn R.

I think this has been talked out a long time ago and can only assume you are trying to stire things up! :(

i didnt realise it had been discussed before, i really think whatever i post i will accused of sumthing, i dont know why i bother.....

thanks

It was mentioned in two seperate posts last month and three the month before including one which ran for most of the month! you could not have failed to see it. It was entitled "Labradoodles"!

Why cant anyone just answer the question instead of bickering over petty things, if i love dogs wants to post about labradoodles then thats her choice, yes i no its been asked before but she may have not known and its her right to ask something. I am personally for Labradoodles as well, i know alot of people on hear moan about them but their no longer a random bred breed, theirs a club and official breeders. I also think they have good uses for the disabled and seem really nice dogs- i dont see why people have problems with them.

And you are entitled to your opinion.......... as is everyone else, me included. If you look back, my response to the question was to suggest a search of the subject as the answer was already available.
Dawn R.

And do you lot tell people who ask about toilet training, pulling, leaving dogs alone etc etc to just search the forums? No you don't you answer them or chose not to answer them but the minute someone mentions something about poodle or labrador crosses you all are extremely rude.

Jesse

Jesse, don't think anyone has been rude, firm, may be, but not rude and if we are talking aggression, well, think your post would win. ;)

This poster was trying to stir up an argument after all else why ask (for or against)

i was not trying do stir anything up, i was trying to get some friendly input...

It's rude because no one is posting politely you just say do a search yet your don't use that same line regarding other things people have asked about thousands of times on this board. Why don't you just tell someone asking about toilet training to 'do a search' or pulling to 'do a search'?

Jesse

Hi Jesse,
When I read the boards, and the same question is repeated by different posters (especially questions regarding play-biting and coprophagia) the poster is frequently advised to do a search for previous threads.
:)

Jesse, may be that is because this poster was not asking for advice but asking for us to aruge the point which we have done many many times before.

Good morning Jesse, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that 'us lot' as you call us, have been extremely polite.
Now I can understand that you feel strongly about this subject, but you surely must see that not everyone feels the same as you, as I said opinions vary. I will read the future posts on this thread with interest, however I will not be dragged into a slanging match so no more will appear from me I've had my say.

I have no intention of getting into another slanging match with you again Poodlebabe. I have answered the question to the person who asked the question.

John

Poodlebabe ..I have lost count of the numerous times I have told people to do a search on a subject that has been raised before. Mainly Insurance , but also puppy biting , labradoodles , house training etc etc.

I have also posted countless times with a FULL and detailed post on all of those subjects. Sometimes , if no one else has posted a reply and I am busy , it is easier to suggest someone does a search of the Forum , especially to a newbie who wouldn't know it has been discussed.

I love Dogs has been here long enough to know contentious subjects ;)

because most people on here dont like me, and are extremely rude to me!

I would never form an opinion as to whether I like or dislike anyone, until I have at least met them :) certainly not from what they may post, as often the written word gives a totally different impression than it would if it was the spoken word :D if that makes sense.

I know from previous postings that you are quiet young at least compared to me :D  but credit to you, you do seem to want to learn more and more about dogs, and surely that can't be a bad thing, but sometimes it is better to stay off subjects that can perhaps be a little inflammatory, especially if they have previously been done to death!

Chris

As has been said before, you can't see the smile in the written word :)

Best wishes, John

The only thing worse then a fool
Is the person that argues with one ;)

Now come on people lets all get along and play nice or ur puter is going to have a break down :D ;) Hope fully we are all mature people on here and we no how to play well with others ;)

:p

hey chris, i dont really consider myself young, i know a hell of alot about dogs i feel im more than capable of voicing my opinion on them, i dont feel i have a disadvantage, to the "older" posters! :)  as i previously said i didnt see that the labradoodle debate had be voiced before, i apologise!
Gemma x

They are not a breed Bullboy, random or otherwise. They are a crossbreed. A failed Guide dog and a money spinner for the puppy farms paid for by the gulible.

There are breeds extremely similar in the way that they should look that are breeds, these breeds are also extremely intelligent!!  Why make new breeds when there's enough in the world.  Don't get me wrong I love cross breeds but as I say there are many breeds out there.

I fail to see any benefit from crossing a labrador with a Poodle other than for making money

there is no point in trying to establish these as a breed when there are plenty with similar traits already, some sadly lacking in the support re3quired t0o keep the breed going.

There are Curly coated Retrievers, there are irish Water Spaniels.  The Lagotta Romagnola and the Spanish and Portugese water dosg have the traits you would get with these crosses.

The Guide Dogs for the blind experiment of trying to get a n0on moutling guide dog failed.  the traits they were trying to get were not reliably passed on.

I'm biased as a future poodle owner and I just don't see the point in them:) but I was interested anyway so I did a search or two a few weeks ago.

I wanted to know how the guide dogs experiments turned out but all I found was endless sites promoting Labradoodles as superdogs.
The only info I could find was out of date anyway, all the labradoodle breeders make a lot of mileage out of how the blind dogs were a success!!??

Where are the facts? Even if they had been a success it really does'nt justify breeding whole litters for the sake of one or two suitable dogs.

I met a choc lab the other day, only to be stunned when the owner told me it was 2nd gen labradoodle! What was the point of that? They could've had a real choc lab!!! :p

:D

Must admit i dont like them , but its each to their own.

I have nothing against designer crossbreeds at all , i have nothing against mongrels , because at the end of the day they are still a living , breathing creature , so they are a breed , even if only a mongrel.

The only thing i do have to say , is that it is wrong for people that do this to charge over the top prices , as lets face it , you can pick up a mongrel for around £70 at a rescue , which has had all its jabs (in most cases) and have been spayed before rehoming.

So i would sooner give my money to a worthier cause , and choose a dog from rescue , if it was a mongrel i was looking for. 

Or i would just have a nice Poodle or Lab instead.

hi everyone

just wanted to make a point, I am not saying that I love dogs tried to cause an argument or that she is a troll, but I would like to point out to those people who thought she was, all that has happened is another debate has started on them even though you didnt want it too.

i dont know why we cant all get along and respct each othr as individuals, we are never going to agree, how boring would it be if we did, but surely it would b nicer if everyon was nice, friendly and approachable, this is the only forum I go on where they seem to have so many arguments and I am seriously considering not coming on here anymore

love clare :)

Hi Clare

I stopped using this board for a while as of the negativity of some posters , i completely agree with everything you said.
Its nice to be nice , thats my motto , and everyone should live by it :)

Hello
I just have to ask, what the hell is Labradoodles????

a labradoodle is a cross between a labrador retriever and a poodle, the original aim was to create a suitable guide dog, which does does cause allergies.

Gemma x

Gemma is correct but failed to say that the experiment was dropped when they discovered it did not work as expected. Some dogs were ok and others weren't, and none would breed true at the second generation. Meaning if you buy one you will not know what it is you will be getting.

Helen, I agree, it is nice to be nice, but this is a discussion forum and if you have a point of view then you should put it. In this case no one was rude they simply said we do not wish to discuss this topic again and suggested that the poster looked up past threads. Can't see any problem in that, nothing to do with the poster, although one would have thought they would have know it had been discussed to the point of yawn

Jackie, it's official then is it?

Labradoodles were discussed before so because you find it difficult to move a mouse one quarter of an inch past a topic you wish to avoid then the rest have to be silent!

I feel that the blind dog breeders are largely culpable for an explosion of cross breeding and should make it clear that they don't endorse the cross breed that many people are selling while exploiting the blind dog connection.

Almost all guide dogs (Not blind dogs!!!) are bred by the Guide Dogs For The Blind organisation. The figures for successfully trained dogs is going up all the time so they must be doing something right! They use in the main, GSD's Golden Retrievers and Labradors. GSD's can be a bit big for some people when you add the height of the handle onto their overall height so are not suitable for all. Labradors can be a bit small so the problem goes the other way. Goldens, as anyone who has had anything to do with the training of them knows have to be approached very gently when training, it is so easy to stop them in their tracks. They also tend to take longer to train mainly because of their more sensitive nature. The plus side of the Golden is the fact that it is just that inch or two taller. When looking into this the GDFB came up with the idea of crossing the two to try to incorporate the height of the golden with the trainability of the Labrador and it was an immediate success! So saying, it is only successful with FIRST CROSSES!!!! They are not trying to establish a breed, just do the best they can for blind people. If you feel this is wrong then I have to wonder why?

The Labradoodle experiment was incidentally not to help with allergies, it is normally dander which causes that, not fur! It was to help blind people by relieving them of having to clear up after the dog at moulting time! The experiment failed because the dogs did not breed true in this aspect! Some were ok but other still moulted and there was no way of knowing until valuable time had been spent in training!    

John

I never knew that, I read somewhere years ago when the Labradoodle first came about that it was for blind people who had allergies to dogs.  I know that some people are only allergic to dogs that moult.

Just goes to show dont believe everything you read :rolleyes:

Claire :)

People always associate allergies and Asthma with dog hair Claire but in almost all cases it is just not true! Dander, the dead skin held in the coat is the culprit.

The Guide Dogs for the Blind's allegiance is to blind people, not pet dog owners Oboe! Why should it be? The dogs they breed are bred to do a job of work! Their decisions stand or fall on that suitability and nothing else. Whether some person is going to "Spin" a story about the dogs they breed or experiment they make for the pet trade is not their concern.

John

Nothing I say Oboe, is official, it's my opinion or my view. You, of course, can take it or leave it, or even reply if you like. ;) If you re-read I was pointing out why we were not rude and why we did not want to repeat the whole thing again. If you have something to add or a different angle feel free.

I fully appreciate that guide dog breeding is for the benefit of blind people John, and I think that it's one of the best assocciations man and dog have but I stand by my view that the guide dog breeders are as responsible to dogs and dog breeding as anyone else. They have not made false claims for the crosses and accept responsibility for their experiments I assume, but they have set something going with others that will take a long time to stop.

You have just provided me in a few seconds with enough information about the labradoodle to put me, as a potential buyer, right off labradoodles if alergy was the selling point, non of the breeders shouting about their wonderful crosses mention that though.

They all claim that it was the alergy aspect and intelligence that led to poodles being crossed. So when buyer looks around all they hear are false claims and nothing to contradict them.

I don't think there is anything wrong with GSFB experimenting with crossing or even instituting a program of crosses for their purpose but if it fails and GSFB is all but silent while a host of people are offering these crosses and all but claiming GSFB endorse their cross then I do think GSFB have a little bit of responsibility to set the record straight more forcefully.

The GDBA have more important things to do than trawl the Net looking for people making spurious claims! As with every other breed, it's down to the potential purchaser to do their own research, and ask questions! Demand proof of their claims. A good rule of thumb is that, if a breeder sings only the breed's virtues and none of its failings, then give them a wide berth! They're in it for money!

It's also very obvious, even in purebreeds, that not all puppies in a litter will inherit the same characteristics. If you make the parentage a cross between two unrelated breeds, then the chance of the desired characteristics being inherited are even more remote!

Caveat emptor!

The GDFB make no secret of their finding, neither do they go out of their way to inform people. I don't think they feel it is a good use of their money. A year or so ago we had the pleasure of entertaining Bruce Fogal at our area AGM and as you possibly know, he spends quite a bit of time there. he is a very interesting speaker and went into detail on this (Amonst other things). It does seem a shame though when people set on making money base their sales pitch on such things particulaly when they obviously know very little about it. Or of course, is it a matter of the truth being the first thing to suffer for a good story? I don't know.

Regards, John

considering some people jumped down your neck I LOVE DOGS I think this has been a very informative debate, and just because its been done before dosent mean that people dont want to have another talk about it and also what about new posters who would also like to put their point across rather than just reading through old posts, which can be boring, anyway you didnt ask these people to reply did you, if you dont like the topic been talked about just dont click on it...................its simple really :)

couldnt of said it better clare, but if i had of seen that this topic caused a bit argument, i wouldnt of started one!

:) but thanks everyone for the input!

Clare, it is not the fact that it has been discussed before but it is only a couple of weeks before and a couple of weeks before that. I am glad you have found it interesting but John, and others, have explained the situation so many times before and if things continue as they have in the past they will be doing it on average at least twice a month into the foreseeable future. Would not be so bad if you thought anyone took any notice, but most the time someone will come back almost accusing you of making it all up. True it has not occurred this time, lets hope I have not spoken too soon.

i can also see your point jackie, but surely if people like John didnt want to reply they wouldnt :)

The thing is Clare, some people just never know when to shut up and I guess I'm one of them!! ;)

I work for Guide Dogs for the Blind Association at the National Breeding Centre in Leamington Spa & I am involved with the Guide Dog breeding programme.
Just want to point out (& second what John has already said) that Guide Dogs have their own breeding programme & breed most of their own dogs. (occasionally will use outside breeding lines)
Being the largest dog breeding establishment in the country & the largest breeders of working dogs in the WORLD, I think Guide Dogs must be doing something right!

snoopy.  :)

They also put a lot of money into veteranery research which goes to help dogs everywhere. Prof. Peter Bedford holds the GDBA chair of Canine Medicine and Surgery. Obviously with an organisation as big as this things do occasionally go wrong but with all the dogs which goe through their hands they do a wonderful job.

Regards, John

lol john :)

plus you are obviously a nice guy ;)