Hi There,

My 3yr old Mastiff, who is classed as a middle aged dog, has started wetting the bed. On at least one occassion she has been "heard" to wet herself when she was asleep. Is this normal for a 3yr old Mastiff?

I know she has a short life expectancy, 5-6yrs, as she also suffers with really bad shoulders.

I thought it would take longer to show than this as I have had old dogs before. One of my rescue rotties lived 14yrs and he was rescued from drug dealers.

Other than this "Ragga" seems fit, runs around and acts normal.

Could she have been dreaming she was outside at her normal toilet area?? I've had these dreams before and just caught myself in time when I was younger.

Ragga does seem to be older than her sister, my daughter has her, is grey round the mouth and very laid back. Is this normal?

We wouldn't swap her for the world but we would like to have her around a bit longer than
the vet advised.

D4wn

If your bitch is spayed this could be causing the problem. Some spayed bitches do suffer urinary incontinence, often in middle to old age.

If this is the case your vet can prescribe medication to help.

I have no particular knowledge of your breed so cannot offer an opinion on your other questions. I am sure someone else here will be able to assist.

Hi well i have some Molosser breeds and have been involved with them for years, and i worked for a (English) Mastiff Kennels for 15 years so i do know abit about them, at 3 years( and are you sure she is that age) she is still a young dog and some of them live longer than you have been told, some live up 12 years and these are just the ones that i worked with, but they should not be allowed to get over weight as this will shorten there life, has she been spayed? or she could have an infection? when you say she has bad shoulders do you mean that she is to over loaded or some thing like ocd/ Arthritis? herbs can help her.

Hi Corso Girl,

Yes "Ragga" is spayed, yes she is definitely 3yrs old (on 30/11/03).

The life expectancy I gave was purely for my dog as she has OCD.

The vet gave me this as a "pessimistic" possibility when she was very young. I keep Ragga quite lean because of the OCD. She is upwards of 34-35inches at the withers, large for a bitch I believe and she is a perfect weight according to my vet. She has a nice covering over her ribcage but is nothing near the size of other Mastiffs, she is more muscle than fat. Some people think she is a x-Great Dane.

My daughter has Ragga's sister from the same litter and her bitch is only 30 inches in height but a lot stockier than my Ragga.

I give Ragga glucosomine sulphate and that helps her. She is only in pain if she gets too much excercise.

The older Ragga gets it seems that she will probably live longer.

My vet has given me all the information on the operations she could have on her shoulders but I don't want to put her through that if it is possible to control the problem with medication and keeping the excercise down.

Up to press Ragga only needs painkillers on rare occasions.

If you were to see her you would think she was a good bit older than 3yrs but I know that is how old she is as she was born on the day my eceased Grandson would have been 3yrs old.

Any more info as to why she is wetting in her sleep?

Thanx
D4wn

Urinary incontinence is quite a common side-effect of spaying. There are drugs that can counteract it, though they have to be taken for life (one of the things may vets don't mention). Talk it over with your vet.

Would it have taken so long to happen as Ragga has been spayed since she was 14mths old.
Another thing is Ragga has been clean since about 6-7mths old, now she messes in the kitchen if left more than 6-7 hours. i.e- at night.
I put this down to the fact that we have a new puppy who isn't 100% yet.
We also have a Male bullmastiff (neutered),two JRT's (neutered) they are all younger than Ragga and she wasn't dirty when they were pups. In fact she helped to train them.
Thanx
D4wn

Oh yes, it doesn't happen straight away after spaying -there's invariably a gap of a year or so. But the vast majority of bitches who suffer from this are spayed.

Sorry to hear that it is OCD but you can give herbs to help keep her from feeling pain, and yes spaying can upset bladder, you can get pills/drops from vets and they do work. If Ragga has any pain why not try her with NOBUTE we use this all the time and friends have used it for lots of things it needs time to get into the dogs system so would need at least a week. Hope it all goes well for you and Ragga.

Hi Corso Girl,

Is nobute the same as you use on horses?
I had a Trotter-X that had to use bute for a while but she became immune to it and it stopped working.
Where would I get it? The vet?

Ragga is generally a lot worse in cold weather so it might be a good idea to get some in now rather than wait.
As I said the glucosamine helps a bit but maybe as she gets older she will need something stronger.
I would rather use herbal/homeopathic remedies than fill her full of chemicals.

The vet has said that with her being from a breed that does not have an excessively long lifespan and the fact that she is not as bad as he thought she would be by now. due no doubt to the fact that I have not let her get overweight, hopefully we will be able to treat her without surgery.

If she does need the surgery then I will just have to save up as even with her insurance I will still have a hefty bill.

Thanx

D4wn

Hiya, yes you get it from a horse shop there is one which is for both and i buy that one it,s about £15 and as i said we use it for all our dogs at some time or other/horses, please keep in touch and let us know how she goes lots of luck, dont use it with any other meds.

The average age of onset of spay-induced incontinence is 3 years and it is most common in large breeds, although it is still relatively rare. Less common than pyometria, for example. Here's a link which I found very informative http://www.inkabijou.co.uk/incontinence.htm.

Dogs do not show pain the same way that people do, so if you notice she is in pain when she exercises a lot it is likely she has some degree of pain more often than you think. She may actually not want to get up when she is laying down and is "holding back", sometimes unsuccessfully, until it is an absolute necessity. Spinal degeneration can also show as incontinence.

Spay-induced incontinence usually mean that a bitch dribbles near continously, not just when asleep. It's a dribble, not a "gush", if you know what I mean. Spay-induced incontinence is usually controllable by a tablet - no op required.

Stacey

Stacey,

You are probably right about the pain. Ragga sometimes has to be helped up in the morning or if she has been laying down for a while.
I've tried the painkillers from the vet for the pain but I would prefer to control it without medication if possible I think I will try the nobute.
The incontinence is'nt worrying us at the moment, she does'nt dribble all the time, it has only been once or twice. If she gets worse I will take her to the vet.
She knows when she messes in the kitchen it was when she did it in her sleep I got a little worried.
I'll just watch her excercise and try the nobute. Should I still give her the glucosamine?

D4wn

Hi D4wn,

I don't know about the glucosamine, sorry. Years ago I had a GSD with severe hip displaysia and my only experience was giving her a tablet made from mussels. (I remember they always smelled like the sea to me.) I know they still sell them, but I cannot remember the name. They seemed effective for a couple of years, but eventually the joint deteriorated to the point where they were no longer seemed to help.

My GSD would sometimes struggle to get up too. A few times I had to lift her to her feet. A few times I found a wet patch underneath her and her coat was wet where she had obviously urinated, always when I was not available. I had dog flaps to an outside run .. and I think that she just could not get up to use them. She eventually did become incontinent, but that involved the other end.

Absolutely give her gentle exercise and if you suspect she is in increasing pain I would try a different treatment. If she is at the point where she is having trouble getting up then you have to assume she is in some degree of pain or discomfort all the time. Personally, at this stage I would try any treatment -- herbal or otherwise - that gives her some relief.

Stacey

Hi Again,

Sorry I haven't been on in a couple of days, PC was down.
Today Ragga got out of my garden, along with Sqweg (JRT) and Vinnie (bullmastiff), Vinnie came back straight away. Ragga never comes straight back because I don't allow her to run of lead very often, when she gets out that's it run, run ,run. Anyway Sqweg stayed with her, he usually comes back when called but I think he was looking after Rags.
When Rags had enjoyed herself on the field, she doesn't 'run away', for 20mins or so they both came back to me.
Tonight she is in pain with her shoulder, limping and holding her foot off the ground, she is also dragging her foot across the floor sometimes. She has done this before when she has over excercised herself.
What painkillers can I give her? I don't have any left that I got from the vet. I have Brufen, calpol and paracetamol. Would any of these be safe?
Thanx

D4wn

Please dont give any paikillers prescribed for a human to an animal unless veterinary advice is given.Paracetamol if given in a big enough dose can cause liver failure and death.All human painkillers have side affects that in humans cause at best some discomfort at worst severe reactions.The dosage cannot be calculated accurately enough to consider giving them to animals.Try Rhus Tox but if it is as bad as you say she really needs to be seen by a vet.
    Please take it from someone who has experience and learn from my mistake.The outcome may not be to your liking.

First of all let me put right the assumption that Bullmastiffs only live for 5_6 years.My Bully bitch is 4yrs old(5 in May next year)and although she is very placid most of the time when something floats her boat she can quite easily outrun my GSD bitch.Their are a number of reasons why your bitch would srart to urinate in her sleep.Firstly is she spayed as this can lead to urinary(and sometimes fecal,although rare)incontinance?Has she had her urine tested by a veterinary surgeon to see if she has any protien,sugar or bacteria?And is she getting out enough as I know from experience how much my girl loves to sleep and how easy it is to let them when you know they really should be getting some exersise.
                 The average age according to the breed standard is 9 years,so you can look forward to a long and happy life with one of the most adorable dogs around.

Hi Feathers,

I don't think you have read all the posts.
Firstly. Ragga is a Mastiff, not a Bullmastiff.
She has OCD.
My vet has given me a life expectancy of 5-6 yrs on account of her health.
She is excercised as per the vets advice and has open access to a toilet area.
Ragga will 'run for Britain' if allowed, although this will only make the pain more intense.
My vet has advised me to give 1 paracetamol per day, at the present rate of pain.
Yes Ragga was spayed at 14mths.
Yes she has had a urine test which is negative for everything.
I allow Ragga to run free once a week, because she loves it, after which she is more or less decked for 2 days.
While I have to control her excercise Ragga is allowed to play in the house with her friends and while she is happy and the pain can be controlled I have no intention of letting her 'go' anywhere.
As Ragga is 3yrs old already I may have only another 2-3yrs left so I will make them the best years that I can for her.
I would love to think you were right and the vet wrong but somehow, having seen Ragga over the last 12mths, I tend to think my vet may know a bit more than he is letting on.

Thanx for your reply.
Hope you don't take offence at what I have said, I didn't mean any.
D4wn

D4wn, how are things?how is your daughter and dog doing i hope they are well, have a nice Christmas.

Corso Girl,
Mandy & Callie doing fine. She obviously made the right decision about Muttley.
Callie is doing well, she is now letting 'some' people in the house, she still barks but soon shuts up when she realizes they are not going to hurt her. She seems to accept kids easier than adults. I think she is missing her friend and because of this is seeking human attention, she is realizing that if she doesn't bark at people she is more likely to get the attention she wants.
Callie is enjoying being an only dog as now if there are any treats going she gets them all. She is a totally different dog, very enjoyable to have around. Also she isn't dog aggressive as she has been playing with my 5, all sizes from Mastiff to JRT's.
I intend having a good Xmas and I hope you and everybody on the forum has one too.
D4wn

Hello D4wn, sorry if I missed it somewhere, but has Ragga had surgery for the OCD?

Also, why paracetemol? It is poisionous to dogs, and in some cases quite small does can be fatal. Canine NSAIDs like Metacam or Rimadyl etc do carry a small risk, but they are very effective and a lot safer.

No Ragga hasn't had surgery. When I discussed it with the vet, who I have known for 20+yrs, we both agreed that it was too much to put her through. It has mainly been the last 12mths that she has had a few more bad days than usual. As Ragga is already 3yrs old, not a long lived breed and at the moment we can control the pain by medication and minimising excercise I decided to go down that route rather than put her through two big operations. She would need two ops as both shoulders are affected.
The vet said I could use Paracetamol in the short term as it was in the middle of the night that Ragga got out and gave herself too much excercise, at the time I had ran out of her medication. I now have plenty of Rimadyl and when she is bad it is still doing the trick.
Billy, the vet, has suggested swimming her in the river where we live. She loves that anyway. Also acupuncture and massage.
Ragga is insured so it isn't the cost of treatment that has brought me to this decision but purely that I don't want her to have two ops that are likely to take a long time to recuperate from.

D4wn

My friend has a young Cane Corso with OCD  he went down with it at 5 months but we have in on NoBute on his bad days which are mainly when it's wet or over exercise which he does notget very often, but other wise he is okay but this was a dog that came in from other lines and it had nothing to do with his feeding as she done all the right things but there you go thats life.

I've got some NoBute now I don't know whether to start Rags on it straight away or keep her off her other meds for a few days?
Or do I give her it alongside her vet meds (Rimadyl)?
Rags is a bit sore at the moment because of the weather, I think. Her bad spells only last a few days usually, as you say mostly due to temp/weather changes or over excercise.
When Rags hardly goes out and stays in with the heating on she hardly ever suffers.
D4wn

Hiya it must not be given with any vet meds and they can take days to get out of the system it really has to be up to you if you change her onto herbs i cant tell you to do it :-)  al i am saying is that it works for my friends dog, if you did give it to her you need to give her the high dose if she is in pain it can take a few days to start, but as i said it is up to you.