feeding a puppy 3 times a day is fine their not going to starve are they ,a breeders diet sheet makes me laugh weetabix at 9am 1oz of chicken at 12 its a little over the top ,new pup owners freting  my puppy wont eat his weetabix at 9am its cos they don't want it 3 meals is suffient for a puppy so if you can come home at lunch and feed him whats the problem,morning .noon and evening 3 feeds no problem,for 2 days a week come on folks sort it out!

jeangeanie you always compare caring for a puppy with a child its completely different and i find the comparison ridiculous!

That's your prerogative Jackie R!

I find your idea that a puppy can be treated in the same way as an adult dog equally ridiculous!
:)

jeangeanie -who said you should treat them the same as an adult dog not I, but people who think you should stay home all day every day are living in cloud cuckoo land,if there left from an early age they grow up with it and adapt to it and don't suffer from seperation anxiety ,i still think feeding 4 times aday is not necessary especially when one feed consists of a milky feed weaned puppies don't need milk something else they don't have in common with a baby!!

I agree Jackie R. That was my point i was putting across on my post about impractical breeders.

If the person needs to go out for some lenght of time, the dog will not cope at all, however, if you train it from a young age to accept that being left alone is part of their daily routine, they will think nothing of it.

You can train your dog to do his duty outside, so why can't you train them to be left alone? The dog will become dependant on the owner.

Just out of interest,Tots, how can you train a dog to 'do his duty' outside, if you're not there?

Firstly, when the puppy is young, only leave him for a few hours, making sure he has gone out to the toilet before hand. Have newspaper by the back door, and if the puppy goes on the paper, it is better than on your floor! I did not say to leave the pup for a long time, but to get him used to being left alone, i think it is worth it.

Are you saying that you are in constant view of your puppy 24/7? If not- then ask the very same question back to your self. :-)

When my puppies were awake, then yes, they were in constant view. They are now adult, and can be left for 4 hours or so at a time because they are housetrained and don't chew things.

Now that we are both working we shall not be getting another puppy. Dog ownership is not a right, it's a privilege, and until we can provide the correct conditions we have not earned that privilege.

Just my opinion..
:)

So you are telling me that only one of you at a time could go out and enjoy your selves for 6 months or more? I really doubt that. I know that is your opinion, and this is mine. 

I preferre to do two things and take time over it, than do one thing quickly, while egnoring the second completely.

No, we didn't go out separately - we took the puppy with us of course! :rolleyes:

So from the time your puppy was first brought home, to the time it had its second dose of vaccinations, you did not go anywhere where dogs were likely to have been?  Did the puppy not soil in the car? Just like it would do at home? What about when you went shopping for clother or food? Surely you did not leave the poor puppy in the car all alone?

Why on earth would we even want to go somewhere that other dogs had been, when we had a lovely puppy at home to play with, train and bond with? What could be more fun than that?

Why is it ridiculous JackieR?  Both have smaller stomachs than the adult, both have less control over their bladders, both need supervision to ensure they don't get themselves into dangerous situations, both need stimulation and contact to grow up socially aware, both need guidelines on what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour (and encouragement and reward for displaying acceptable behaviours, and no reward for the unacceptable), both rely on human adults for warmth, food, water........  Only real differences I can see are puppies have four legs, children have two - which is why I treat my animals like children and my children like animals!

I've said this before, and I'll say it again ;-)   Thousands and thousands of people work and have dogs, gosh, they even breed   This board, excellent though it is :-)  is mainly answered by people that are at home an awful lot and for whatever reason do not work (OK... Lady Dazzle - or are able to work from home ;-)  )

Most people who work full time and have dogs, do not spend their evenings on the internet following this site, so the arguements regarding pups/time home/ working etc will always be biased toward the stay home arguers :-)

A good owner who works is better than a bad one who doesn't.  When you've seen what I've seen from a rescue point of view you may agree - as my vet does!

I friend of mine MANY years ago wanted a cocker - she worked.  (She also had horses and a goat - a very caring person).  We talked about it and she put up a a lovely kennel and run for daytime use, bought TWO litter brothers (for company) and arranged for someone to come in in the daytime to feed etc.

Those pups were much loved, well cared-for and grew into well-balanced lovely dogs, as problem-free as any I knew.

It may not be ideal but it was a darned sight better than many puppies lifestyles!

 

This seems to be a hot topic.  Unfortunately some of us do not have the luxary of being home 24/7, that is just life.  The point being if that you have to work you have to do the best you can for the dogs needs, I work 3.5 hrs a day with the dog sitter coming in for half an hour within the 3.5 hrs to let him out.  If I could stay at home of course I would love that  I leave him  in a a big crate, half newspaper/half vet bed with some water. toys and A SAFE CHEW and the radio on.  He is fine and seems to take the opportunity to sleep as he plays all morning.

I think working Fulltime with a young pup would be very difficult as they do need a lot of time and attention.

1st time i've logged on today and sorry is all I can say.... i only wanted to let you know how I was getting on with Dicksy as being a new owner of a puppy I'm so proud of him for being almost house trained and being able to sit (almost get down) etc., I've read several books reading 'why does my dog?' at the moment (fascinating read).  Everyone is entitled to their opinion I know and I only wanted advice from my initial post and certainly took all points on board.  I left Dicksy for the first time on Saturday for an hour and just rushed back to him I was panicking but when I got back he was asleep..don't think he even noticed I was gone!  One question at night I put him in his crate which is covered and he's fine for about 6 hours, when I went out I never put him in his crate, I felt sorry for him, other posts I have read on here I note that it is for his safety as for that of my flooring and walls and I'm just a big softie!  Is it advisable to put him in his crate for a few mins each day with door shut.  He does go in there if I'm ironing or something in dining room for a sleep but I never shut the door..only at night (bedtime).

hi everyone :)

sorry to butt in so late but I have been busy with my new puppy, who may I add is been left for 4 hours at a time, is only been fed 3 times a day, is paper trained at 9 weeks completely(Im gonna regret saying that so i am touching wood.........lol) and is the mot loving, sweet, gentle and happy puppy I have ever seen, it is better to get them used to th routiene of been left from the word go as they will not know any different, as long as they are warm have safe toys, paper, fresh water they will be fine, i also have a ball which dispence treats when played with and he has hours of fun, as someone said earlier when i get home he i in exactly the same place as I left him......lol, anyway just wanted to give my opinion as I too had this converstaion on here before, but I had very few people offering me support, they were all negative saying I should not have the pup if I work (how do you afford a 600 pound dog in the first place if you dont work)

definately get the pup, it sounds like it could do a hell of a lot worse than come and live with you :)

good luck love clare

digger- you treat your children like animals! and your animals like children ! thats actually quite funny but also rather sad!! what do you actually do with your dog all day? stop kidding yourself half of behaviour problems are due to the fact that people forget dogs are animals and not a replacement child!

Jackie r, have been following this thread for a while and have found it very interesting.  I think you make more sense than most and I agree with you 100% that dogs should be able to be left on their own and we should not treat them like replacement children, they are after all an entirely different species.  I would also like to add a point that many people on this board seem to make the assumption that we workers work because we HAVE to and don't have the LUXURY of being at home 24/7.  Personally I can't imagine anything more horrendous than being at home 24/7, it would drive me crazy, is that LUXURY????  I work because I WANT to not because I HAVE to, I believe that by working I am contributing to society and believe me I consider that my dog had a fabulous life with lots of walks, love & attention (when we were home).  When we were working he would snooze, as he did most of the day whether we were in the house or not.  Admittedly when he was a pup we didn't leave him for very long periods but certainly for much more than an hour at a time and he wasn't in constant company.  He grew up to be the most balanced dog I have ever known, happy to go in the local kennels when the need arose, never suffered from separation anxiety, he was sociable and so laid back with people and other animals, people often asked me how Sam was before asking me how I was.  And I never ever treated him like my 'child'. Everyone has their own views, but mine tend to be along the lines of yours Jackie r.

Why is it so sad??  They both have needs which I try and fullfill - and that's sad??  My dogs go for walks, we have training sessions, cuddles on the settee, I prepare their meals, make sure they stay clean and healthy - very similar to what I do with my kids (and I bet I'm not the only one on here who treats their children and animals very much the same)  Ofcourse I don't hold meaningful conversations with my dogs (although sometimes I might think I'd get a better conversation with them that a teenager ;))

I'm with you, digger. My vet told me years ago that, given the right training, a dog can be as intelligent as a three-year old child. So it's only common sense to help dogs fulfil their potential. And that doesn't happen without human effort.

I guess it depends what you want from your dog.
:)

your suppose to introduce a puppy to most things before the age of 16 weeks being left alone is one of them, there was a documentary once and they did an experiment with a litter of puppies every day they would remove the same 3 puppies away from from their mother for a length of time and leave the other 3 with her and what they found was the 3 that were removed turned out to be more confident and had no anxiety  problems unlike the 3 that where not removed, when placed in new homes

puppies get used to things from an early age e.g. puppies that start off in a crate accept it as part of their life ,try putting a dog in a crate for the first time and it will go beserk, leaving  a puppy on its own is the best favour you can do it, it grows up into a well balanced dog being able to cope when your not there!

Maybe so, but I can now leave mine for several hours while I go to work (I could leave them all day, but I would never leave them longer than I can last without needing the lavatory - fair's fair, after all) with complete confidence - with never a need for crating. And I've had so much more fun along the way!
:)

I've been watching this thread with interest, but now I have to come in and say something :)  Our dogs were not left alone as puppies and in that I acknowledge that our circumstances were such that we were able to do this due to our circumstances.  But like JG, ours in adulthood can be left for several hours (the length of time it takes to go to the cinema and see a Lord of the Rings film being an indication of the max time we leave them :D ) and I daresay we could leave them longer, but we choose not to.  And having left them, we know that we are coming home to happy, relaxed dogs.   Ours are extremely well balanced and haven't in the least suffered from our constant presence in puppyhood.

Lesley

Funnily enough that's the same sort of thing that children need............Be careful jackie r - you might even start to treat your dogs like children........ ;)

what is this about treating your dogs like children its ridiculous their not children for christ sake! and if you put your children equal with your dog then you should'nt have either! children first then pets any responsible parent would surely agree with that???

jeangeanie- how do you know you could leave your dogs for longer if you never do?
i bet they were crated though at one time eh? 4 hours free to roam in a room is worth 1 hour in a crate

digger- just for info so you can get your facts right i have one dog who has enough attention that one  dog needs,who is treated how you would expect a dog to be treated with kindness but is not treated like a child and i have 2 children who are not treated like a dog!!!!!

No JackieR, you're wrong. My dogs have never ever been crated. Not once. I've never owned a crate. They have free run of downstairs.

And I know they could be left for longer, because when we've had to go out for the whole day and not been able to take them, a neighbour pops in to let them out at intervals, and they refuse to go!

oh my god your left your dogs for a whole day!! so dogs can be left all day their quite happy and as you said they don't want to go out anyway so thankyou jeangeanie you just proved our point!!!!!

No, my point is that I wouldn't go out for the whole day without arranging that they had the opportunity to go out! It's the lack of choice which is unfair to them, having been housetrained. And I certainly wouldn't contemplate leaving them the whole day if they weren't housetrained! I don't want my house stinking, and it would be confusing for them!

no i think you have provided the evidence that dogs can be shut in for a day and come to no harm although i am a little surprised you left so many dogs all day with a couple of opportunities to releave themselves especially how you've been preaching to everyone!

It's better than leaving one alone with no such opportunity, such as you advocate! :p

the post was about leaving one puppy for a few hours and you slated the poster for it ,then we find out you leave  what is it 3 dogs for a whole day when you go out now oh who's calling the pot black? naughty naughty now would you treat a child like that i think not!!!

here here jackie r , I watch jeangenies posts with interest becuse whatever you say she will always find a way to condesend good people, i mean would dog abusers and people who mistreat their dogs really visit a site about dogs................i think not JMO :)

Very interesting thread, and really what I can see coming out of it is that with sensible amounts of love, care, and training, dogs in families with people at home all the time and dogs who are left alone for limited periods while the humans work both seem to turn out OK!

I certainly don't agree with leaving a dog 9-5 Monday to Friday, but maybe it's not the amount of time the dog is left alone that's the real issue here, but what kind of interaction takes place with the dog when the owners are there?

I think, if you read my first post properly ;) you'll notice that I specifically pointed out that I was not having a dig at anyone, and that my opinion was simply that, my opinion, and not aimed at anyone! So how you can call that slating someone ... ?

It's 4 dogs in fact, and the last time we went out without them for the whole day was 2 years ago, when the youngest was 2 years old. Again, if you read what I originally wrote, I said that a pup's needs are similar to those of a human baby - and indeed they are. A trained adult dog (which is what mine are)can be left unattended for longer than a puppy. Our house is almost never empty of people, but because there isn't always someone up during the day, we won't consider getting another puppy, because we believe it would be wrong.

This has reached the point where I think if I said dogs were canine you would disagree, so discussion is futile. You carry on your way, I'll carry on mine, which has proved extremely successful over 30 years, and we'll have to agree to differ.

Oh dear jeangenie, it seems we've reached that level where people need to hurl insults at each other again doesnt it.

Oh well. you rise above it magnificently as usual. :)

Rachael

As far as I`m concerned dogs are like children, they need to be supervised for most of the time & are totally dependent on us for everything, In fact at least kids grow up but with the dogs its like a toddler that never gets beyond the age of 3ys. Agree with you & the others who think this way J/G :)

Christine, Spain.