Does my dog need a booster? I was told this morning (by the know-it-all park clique) that once a dog has had it 1st injections it's covered for life? I've done a bit of searching and some sites are pro-injections some are anti-injections?
The jist of it was, any dog who has had injections will shed cells(?) which my dog will pick up and fight off naturally and create antibodies to them.(Thus protecting itself)

At present we live in 'town life' but we are moving to Wales 'country life' (A beach YESSSS!) and i was wondering about tics?
I suspect we won't meet as many dogs as we do now (well i know we won't) so what do you think?

Sarah
P.S I'm sure you can tell i don't know what i'm talking about HELP!

my dogs have their boosters every year untill they are about 5-6 years old.  Then they just have it if say if they are going into kennels or just going somewhere where they might need an up to date booster.

I will never leave a dog after the 1st booster.

Yes dogs do make an immunity system without boosters that is why i dont get them theres when they are older but a young dog should always have them, just to get the immune system started if you no what i mean!!!:D

Rox

Thanks ice-queen I was getting so confused with the conflicting web sites.
I'll stay with the boosters then thanks for that!

Regards...Sarah

Only you can decide whether or not to booster. If you are moving to into the country in Wales, you'll probably be moving near sheep & where there's sheep, there's ticks. They're not such a great problem tho', just keep your eyes open for them. They can be treated with most fleas treatments these days.

Hi I/Queen, there is enough eveidence proving that after the first booster at 1yr old the immunity lasts a life time :) Once the body has produced the required amount of give immunty anti bodies to any particular virus giving repeated boosters cannot make it produce any more, the body just doesn`t work like that.
Have a read thru some of the links I`ve put below for a better explanation. :)

Christine, Spain.

I travel a lot with my dogs so I would normally boost annually up to, say 10 or 11 years old.  It also covers the dogs if they have to go into boarding kennels, which normally require boosters to be up to date. Also I am located in a semi-rural area and country life can mean more exposure to rat contamination so the risk of leptospirosis can be higher - lepto. is covered by most booster vaccinations.

However I would never boost a dog which is off colour in any way, very elderly or a which has had bad allergic reaction to a booster (there is a possibility that an allergic dog could suffer anaphylatic shock, which can kill). 

After that, you must make your own mind up - there are risks in vaccination in any species, and risks in not vaccinating - just like with humans.

Thank you very much for the advice, it is the country element i'm worrying about a bit more.....Rats?? Lepto?? Heck never even considered that!!
There is a field directly behind our new house that is used for grazing sheep, any advice on ticks??

Sarah

I spent lots of time thinking about this .... i did the puppy vaccs; and one booster, then had my girl titre tested. The test results were brilliant and i may never have to have her vaccinated again :) Except of course they can't test for Lepto.

I think it would be a good idea to ask country people about Lepto, esp.. those with terriers for ratting, i expect they are not all vaccinated.

I just think that some dogs will react badly and some won't, but we have to just do what we feel is best. I am going to have titre tests done every year. My vet was surprised at the good results so we are working together i feel :)

Lindsay

Rats _- yes they'll be around, one reason I booster. Think the leptospirosis jab doesn't last as long as the others. Ticks - look out mostly spring & summer & when it's dry (not often in Wales :D. My dogs seem to pick them up mostly on the face, they just look like smooth little warts. don't just try to pull them off because if the head gets left behind it may cause an infection. A good squirt of Frontline & they usually drop off in a few minutes, trouble is, the hair seems to come off as well so, in my breed, you're left with what look like small black spots on the face - not very flattering if you show!

Re: Rats/Lepto - a beautiful young ESS who worked to the gun locally died of Lepto.  His booster was only a couple of weeks out of date.  However, dogs working to the gun are often rooting around in valley bottoms, muddy ponds and streams and all over farmland, so they are at greater risk. 

Ticks are more prevalent where there are undipped grazing animals such as deer - sheep are dipped at least annually - and grouse also carry ticks.  Hedgehogs also can carry them.  They aren't a big problem IN THIS COUNTRY unless a dog gets a severe infestation which can make it very anaemic, but you should keep a look out for them and remove any found. (In other countries they are known to carry varoious diseases). To my mind in the UK they are less of a problem than fleas and/or lice, and they aren't very swift moving so are easier to deal with! 

Ticks generally catch a ride on passing animals by crawling up stalks of grass, bracken etc. and dropping on to them at the opportune moment:  they later drop off the animal when full - females engorge themselves and swell up to pea-size or larger just before they drop off to lay their eggs, I believe. 

Hi again MB :) Re Lepto & ticks in UK. From all the evidence I`ve read Lepto only gives immunity for 9mths at most & then only to about 4 of the strains, there are lots more than 4.
I`m pretty sure ticks in UK do carry disease, off hand I can`t remember which ones & I believe a lot of birds carry them as well as the hosts you`ve mentioned. Don`t know about the ones you`ve got over there but the ones here move pretty damn fast when looking for a meal :) :) even faster when I notice it & try to get it off before it latches on!!!!

Christine, Spain.

I think ticks carry Lyme disease ...I'll google and check.

Yes I think it is J/G :) Erlichea as well maybe????

Christine, Spain.

It is the Lepto that is the problem one according to my vet, they agree that the others are live and probable give life time cover but the Lepto only gives short term cover and infection can be picked up by a dog 'tasting' another's urine. So it is up to you but I live in the fens so don't take the chance. Frontline will deal with ticks.

Hi Jackie

The other day I found a tick on Luna. I have a special tong (i think) to remove ticks. It said on the paper, that I should put it around the tick, turn a cppoule times to the left and a couple times to the right and then pull. I did this, and from what I could see (this is my "first" tick), I got the head with out. I put the tick in a container with a lid because I wanted to show it to a friend and ask if it was a tick. The tick was still alive the next day, so that must mean that I got the head out, right? I mean it can't go on living without a head, can it?

My problem is now, that she has a little swelling with a crust on and it itches a bit. Should I take her to the vet, or do you know if this is normal?

I saw a picture in a book of the tick, and concluded from that, and killed the bug!.

Jeanette

hello the best way to remove a tick is to smother it in petroleum jelly to block up its air pores so that it has to let go to breath. then remove the tick. do not atempt to remove tick whilst attached, this may lead to infection.

??? this could cause tick bite fever if you dont get the head out, the petrolium jelly will do the best safest job

I grab 'em firmly between my finger tips and twist 1.5 times anti-clockwise, they lose their grip and the head remains attached to their own body - then chuck 'em down the sink followed by boiling water (I expect the removal of the tick method is going to solicit some form of negative responce :s I've never had any infection etc. in any of my dogs from doing it this way, nor my neighbour and her 5 dogs, a friend and her  3 etc.)

MW

Hi

Where would you buy this perolium jelly?

I have never heard of it before.

But I'm willing to do whatever it takes, so I'm sure that everything is out.

Jeanette

its vaseline jeanette, justa nother name for it :)

Oh like the vaseline you would put on your lips if they are dry?

I was thinking petrolium!

Jeanette

Hi MB, vaccines/boosters can trigger very many serious auto immune diseases or other diseases besides anaphylatic shock, you don`y know which dog it will happen to tho but it`s already known that certain breeds are more susceptable than others. A dog that has an allergy to anything already has a compromised immune system & therefore not healthy. The manufacturers clearly state only healthy dogs to be vaccinated/boostered. :)

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine.  I've had a few vaccinations myself and had a horrid reaction to the Typhoid jab which was mainly allergic!  My youngest dog had hives (badly swollen head) after her first annual booster and it was quite severe, so I haven't boosted her since, although the vet wanted me to (he advised me to 'stay near the surgery for a few hours after in case she reacts' !!!). 

That`s awful for you both MB! Did you make a suspected adverse reaction report out for both you & your dog? Don`t understand why your vet wanted to give her more boosters, shame on him! You`ve done the right thing by giving no more you know, once they`ve had one reaction they`re more likely to have another next time round that could cause untold damage to the immune system.
Hope your both OK now tho :)

Christine, Spain.

Hi Sarah & others wondering whether to booster or not :) A few links below with a lot of info if you want to read up before you decide.

http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/schultz/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1
http://www.homestead.com/vonhapsburg/haywardstudyonvaccines.html
http://www.homestead.com/vonhapsburg/vaccines1.html
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/Adobe/DrMcCluggage.pdf
http://www.avma.org/policies/vaccination.htm
http://www.danebytes.com/vaccine_article.htm
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/192002.htm
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ImmuneSystem.htm
http://www.cavaliers.co.uk/articles/vaccineprotocols.pdf
http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpvaccin.htm
http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html
http://www.inno-vet.com/articles/2002/0902/02.html

Christine, Spain.

Thanks Christine, i'll have a look through now.

Sarah

That`ll keep you busy for a while then :D  & if we don`t hear from you for a few dys we`ll know why!!!!! :D

Christine, Spain.

We have decided not to booster our adult dogs again, and will rely on titre tests, although I am wary about not being covered for Lepto, so will check with our Vet about the single vaccine that I have been told is available.  We have a new puppy and he will have his puppy vaccs and probably the first booster unless I hear any more conflicting advice before then

im confused... i thought it was always just assumed that they get a booster each year ?

It is a very controversial subject at the moment.  Some boost, some don't - it's up to each person to assess the risks and make up their own mind about it.  Read all you can - it's an interesting subject with no easy answers - similar to the current controversy about MMR jabs in children!

as far as i understand, with the Lepto jabs, it doesnt cover ALL the strains of lepto around (not even nearly!) and the efficacy of the vaccine is dubious at best. In some cases it can cause the disease (i believe, i might have made that up!)

What i do know is, humans ARENT vaccinated against it, not even when they work in areas where they are at major risk of catching it (my mum is, she is a pest control officer),,,, and it can and does kill humans. That being the case, it makes me wonder why dogs ARE vaccinated against it.....

Personally, i have a year old lurcher pup here, who has never, and most probably will never, be vaccinated against anything.

Had i followed my vets advice and had him done at 8 and 10 weeks, in all likelyhood i would now have either a very sick dog, or a dead dog.
At about 6 months old, Dill turned out to be VERY allergic to basically everything bar food (he is on a raw diet though, wouldnt dare feed him commercial).....there was no way i could have known that at 8 weeks. He shows all the signs of being one of those dogs who WOULD develop and immune mediated problem.

Em

Hi Em, agree with everything you say :)

Christine, Spain

Thats great C/Pud :D

Christine, Spain.

It is interesting that American Vets have been advised that boosters are only needed every three years for the main viruses that are inoculated for.

Flipping heck Christine!! I have looked through the majority (don't worry i've been out in between ;) )
I just don't know now :(
I read one where it is said that boosters are just a profit making scheme by the manufacturers!!

Welcome to make your mind up time M/Girl :D :D The first 2 links are by very esteemed & well known immunoligists/viroligists & giving out the facts truthfully, they are as honest as they can be, so its up to you.
Can`t remember the others at the moment so not sure which one says boosters are just a profit making scheme by the manufacturers, as if they`d do that.... perish the thought!!! But you do know that there is no scientific evidence anywhere for them don`t you?
Joking aside it`s a serious matter & you need to read all you can before deciding, not as easy I know.
:)

Christine, Spain.

If we were saying here Christine i'd be really tempted to stop boosters when she was 5-6 because she meets other dogs and when she doesn't she can smell loads, but moving to a more rural setting is the confusing part, less dogs/smells, rats, sheep, farmers with a shotgun lol :)

Argh!!!!! :(

Then why not ask yourself this - If you were going to an overseas country where there were diseases endemic that you hadn't been vaccinated against, would you want those vaccinations for yourself or would you take a risk?  As mentioned above, I travelled to China some years ago and opted to have the jabs - I reacted badly to one of them, and wouldn't have it again even though it has run out now. 

I use that decision about myself as a benchmark when assessing with each of my dogs re: boost or not.

Forget the Lepto for a minute My/G, Parvo & Distemper give a minimum immunity of 7yrs & in 95% lifetime cover after the first booster, doesn`t matter what part of country you`re in, so what is it you are worried about there, I`m not sure I understand you`re reasoning about town & countryside. If you are still worried why not have a titre test done first?

Christine, Spain.

Christine...

Do you think that the age of first vaccinations has anything to do with possible reactions???

Im thinking of getting a pup next year, and my thoughts were to wait until 6 months old, then titre test and possibly vaccinate based on the results of the titre.

Em

Hi Em, yes I do think age plays a part with it, pups are given far too many over a very short period of their young lives, that in turn weakens their system & then its just a ma1ter of time when 1 of the boosters will tip it over the top, but i`m also a firm believer that good nutrition goes a long way in builing up a healthy immune system.
I`ll tell you about my 2 pups & they only had the one vacc at 8wks, they both had parvo at 12wks & recovered, the bitch also had bloat 2wks later & racovered. Not long after they were on a raw diet & i had them titred at about 6/7mths old they had very little to adno & distemper but obviously immune to parvo. They were mixing with my other dogs & going out in the field but I was too scared to let them go in the big field or outside. Few wks later I said enough & started taking them out & about & a few shows. Had another titre in the new yr done & there was nothing for adno & distemper so I had them vaccinated about 9/10mths old, against those 2 only & they both had a skin reaction along their backs that took approx 6-8wks to clear up. I`d lost my internet connection & knew no better...
Em join some of the other lists about it, see what others do & keep reading. Ask when Glasgow Diagnostics can do the titres on pups, they told me they could work out a titring programme if I ever had pups again.
:)

Christine, Spain.

Hiya Christine,
Thanks, im gonna go read the stuff on those links u gave.....just waiting for kettle to boil and my dinner to cook (yes at this time of night, ive gone all nocturnal again!).....

Wanna know all this before i get a pupper next year!

Em

Lets know what your thoughts are when you`ve decided Em. :)

Christine, Spain.

Hahaha, Christine.....my heads all over the place now!!!!!!

Not only from reading those links and other stuff, but i watched that Bodysnatchers program last night......they linked humans carrying a worm burden to not being allergic....or rather, REMOVING the worm burden triggering allergies......which led me to thinking about dogs (as does most things ill admit)

I would think that over the years (millions of them) that most mammals (including us) have adapted to cope with a small population of parasitic worms. It doesnt make sense that carrying worms is hugely harmful to the host, as then the host would die, not furthering the worms reproduction/existance. WE have messed up the balance, with our crappy diet and medicines, and now its unusual for humans in developed countries such as the UK to carry worms......but its NOT unusual for us to be highly allergic to everything and anything.

Id love to see statistics regarding worming in dogs, and compare it to allergy data............

Em (too much thinking hurts my brain!)

*my heads all over the place now!!!!!!* Em thats the normal state of my head :D
Seriously tho, thats the way I feel & I agree with all you say.

Christine, Spain.

Hi Christine, Ahh i get you now!! Yes it doesn't matter what part of the countryside i'm in!!

Hi M/Girl, nice when it all falls into place & makes sense isn`t it :)

Christine, Spain.

Of the few dogs I've had responsability for I've always given the first set of vaccinations followed by the first booster.

With the new pup I'll probably do the same then have her tested for immunity the next year and take it from there.

I think thats what I'd do too WF.

My POV is that I've seen too many pups die of parvo that werent given their initial vaccs, or were treated by homeopathic nosodes (often wrongly called homeopathic vaccines). In the cases of the homeopathic ones, some breeders use these as they are cheaper and can be administered at home. The administration at home is probably the bit that worries me most (other than their lack of effectiveness), as we all know how important it is for pups to see the vet for the checkover.

I would not have a puppy go without initial vaccines and worming, as I've seen the results of this.

*However* - I cant vaccinate Ruby now, as her cancer and the life of breeding she has had has left her with a lowered immune system. It bothers me that I wouldnt be able to put her in kennels (not that I'd want to, but the right to would be nice!) because she hasnt had them.

If I were to get a pup again, I would do puppy vaccinations and at least the first booster. After that, unless the powers that be come out and say its safe to do it less regularly, I would titre test and go from there (although I've heard titre testing isnt very accurate which worries me).

Info from the vaccine companies shows that after that, immunity can last for 3 years. It is not the vaccine companies that are being money grabbing about it, if anyone its the vets. If you read the info with each vaccine (other than lepto) it does *apparently* say that theyre needed every 3 years, not every year like the vets say. In the US this has been recognised (going on what people in the US have told me, so correct me if I'm wrong), but over here this hasnt come into effect. I'm sure it will soon, but how soon, I dont know! :)

i have been told that if you miss a few years and don't booster, and then need to for ie:- boarding, that the dog has to have its full vaccinations again as it did when it was a pup, is this true? :)